Wild Xingús

[ShinShin]

Very nice, Nandi.

Mat

[Apistomaster]

About 45 years ago when I first began keeping and breeding wild Discus the plain looking Xingu Browns were among the most common of the wild Browns I received. They were not far from the major export centers but over the years they have been fished out to the point that they are no longer in plentiful supply.
In the States, they are not very popular because of their relative lack of blue striations and the publics' tastes now seem to lean more to the Discus which have strong red over tones on their bodies like those from the Alenquer and Nhamunda areas. I don't see that the shapes of Xingu are very different from other wild Discus. All wild Discus have better body shapes(IMO)than any of the domestic forms.
Your Xingu are still young fish which have not filled out in thickness. Discus at that stage do have a more gracile look but that will change as they fully mature.

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

those are some beautiful wilds you have there. I need to set up a wild tank, been getting more and more interested in these.

[NanDiscus]

Thank you guys for the kind words and I'm happy that you like the fish and the set-up.
I am trying to do my best to keep them happy. It seems, that the only recurring issue is the increasingly urgent need for a bigger tank. Getting the tank is not such a big deal, but I'm really afraid of the difficuties bringing it up the stairs.

Larry,
We seem to share the same idea about what a pretty-shaped discus looks like, I am also much more keen on the wild discus. Kept domestics until now, had some really nice ones too, but these wilds are in a league of their own.
I did not know, that there are so few Xingús left in the wild, I was under the impression, that the Xingú River is mainly popular for the catfish, not the discus. You may be right though about the early days of discus collecting, when the nearer the catching sites were to the west coast, the better. And Porto de Moz is also not too far from the town of Santarem.

Nandi

[ShinShin]

Actually, there are plenty of Xingu discus swimming around. They do not sell and native fishermen do not fish for them anymore. In fact, very few even fish the Xingu anymore for plecos because more desirable strains are located in other rivers. This is according to O.L., whom I have been discussing the Xingu discus with for the last 18-20 months. In his facility they are called Humpty Dumpty Discus and he has none for sale this year because of lack of interest. Even his facility in S.A. is void of them.

Mat

[NanDiscus]

Actually, there are plenty of Xingu discus swimming around. They do not sell and native fishermen do not fish for them anymore. In fact, very few even fish the Xingu anymore for plecos because more desirable strains are located in other rivers. This is according to O.L., whom I have been discussing the Xingu discus with for the last 18-20 months. In his facility they are called Humpty Dumpty Discus and he has none for sale this year because of lack of interest. Even his facility in S.A. is void of them.

Mat

No wonder then, that it took me several years to find them in Europe.
Everyone say that they don't sell, which may be right on the large scale, but you should see my waiting list for F1's.

Nandi

[TankWatcher]

I am planning to put little pieces of glass inside the tank, which will support the plastic sheets I'm going to use as partitions. I will be able to divide the big tank into three parts and if I happen to have two pairs,

Sounds like what I did to my 74G, which I could divide into 2, using the slots formed by glass strips siliconed vertically onto the tank wall. Worked well when I had the tank with a pair of apisto on either side. I ended up taking these vertical glass strips out when I put my discus in there. The vertical pieces of glass to support the partitions were a hazard, if ever the partitions weren't in place. A startled discus, if in the wrong position, didn't see these and could dart into them at full speed. This may not happen in your case, but thought it was worth mentioning to you. Perhaps your way of doing it is different to mine anyway ?

I am also much more keen on the wild discus. Kept domestics until now, had some really nice ones too, but these wilds are in a league of their own.

That's how I feel. I do have some nice domestics, but my personal taste is that they can't compare to wilds.

Your's have a beautiful shape & nice colours. so, Xingus are a type of wild brown discus?

[Apistomaster]

The majority of the most desired Hypancistrus plecos come from the lower Rio Xingu and not from other river systems. It is the fact that Brazil banned the collection and export of ALL their Hypancistrus species that has reduced the fishing.
Only the small peckoltia species are comparable and only one, L134 is in the same desirability league as their hypancistrus. Everything else that is allowed to be exported tends to be large species with the gold Nuggets being the most beautiful but Gold Nugget adults are 10-12 inches. The baby Gold Nuggets are imported in huge numbers but most are dead within a year.
Their dietary and spatial need are rarely provided by those who buy them for their color. Those that live for years do not grow well and it can take five years for a 2-1/2 imch specimen to reach 5 inches which shows how poorly their needs are met.

That is why I have been specializing in breeding Brazilian Hypancistrus species as the demand remains but the supply does not.
Before the ban on export of Brazilian Hypancistrus was well enforced they made up a much larger per cent of the dollars worth of fish exported from Brazil; well in excess of the dollars spent on wild Discus,

[ShinShin]

That's all well and good about plecos. I have no desire to check the validity, however. That fact remains, as mentioned, Xingu discus are plentiful in the Xingu River, not fished out. Fishermen have quit fishing for them because they loose money due to lack of demand, and fish for plecos elsewhere for whatever reasons. I have no desire to hijack this good thread but have emails from O.L. to verify my statement if you need proof. O.L. has generally provided the world with some of the best wild discus for quite some time.

Mat

[NanDiscus]

Just to steer the topic back a little to its original track, I give you a little update. No pics this time, unfortunately, as I forgot to charge the batteries of my cam.
Anyhow... Something strange is occuring water-wise and I am currently investigating the possible causes. The symptoms are: green algae bloom on the tank sides and on the sand, a bit of fungus reappeared on the wood and the fish behave a little different from what I've been used to. No sings of illness or major stress, but I can tell, that something is not exactly right.
Over the past few months I have been testing the water for EC and pH on a very regular basis and the readings I posted above. I was content with all those figures and I had no idea, that anything could go 'wrong', but something apparently did. The reappearance of the fungus/mould on one of the branches triggered the thought, that there may be an issue with the pH, so I got my meter out, stuck it in the water and after about 3-4 minutes it was still displaying 7.6. O.M.G.! - I thought. Now, how can that happen? Tested the water in the prep. tank (RO:Tap, 10:1, 60mS), pH=7.9. Another unbelievable reading. First thing I thought was that the calibration of the meter has gone off duty. Tested it, accurate as a sniper.
A few months back I settled with a mix of 6 parts RO, 1 part tap. This gave me pH7, steady after 24hrs, and the filter worked the value down a bit. And when the circumstances settled in the tank and the filter - along with the pH between 6.4-6.8 on avg., - the fungus on the piece of wood disappeared. Now, with a ratio of 10:1 the pH is much higher and with the larger w/c's recently, I haven't been giving the filter the chance to pull it down.
I think, that the water company switched to the winter supply, which means, that instead of using the water from the local sources, we get it from about 70miles from here, where the natural waters are basically saturated limestone. This would also explain the higher feed TDS on the RO, the higher pH and the filter's inability to cope with it.
And this whole story brings to life my worst nightmares, being that I will have to do something with the pH myself. I don't like fiddling with the water much, even though I don't really tend to use anything for this job other than a bag of peat and alder-corns.
I know, most of you would say, that the pH itself is almost irrelevant, as long as it is within reasonable limits (and which I would otherwise agree), but having not had the issues with the unwanted lifeforms in the tank, nor the strangely behaving fish - when the pH was under 7 constantly, I will try to do something about it this time. My only concern is stability...

Nandi

[Apistomaster]

The mold and green algae are part of the ecological succession and it sounds like the wood fit for the mold to grow on is not so anymore.

It does sound like your water supplier may be drawing from another source.
Have you tested for only the KH with a colormetric test method yet?
It is possible to have a low TDS yet have most of it in the form of Calcium carbonate which can produce soft water with an unexpectedly high pH.

Your RO water results seem high to me. Even extremely hard water input should come out with a very low TDS. The membranes may not last as long as they could but while they are still working well the results shouldn't be very different regardless of your fresh water source. If the membranes are old or damaged your results will not be as good.
I change my Micron filters at least twice a year and my carbon block annually.
I do not bother to use my mixed bed ion exchange cartridge.

About electronic meters.
Sample the water in a clean container then test far from the electrical fields produced mostly by your lights. The electrical fields can produce wildly spurious readings.
I never test directly in my tanks because the results are meaningless.
I always sample and test away from electrical devices.
Also be sure to always store your pH meter in water.
I use the pH 4.01 calibration solution. Many meters are designed so the caps hold water to keep the electrodes immersed. These types of caps easily dry out. I use tape to seal the seam between the cap and meter so no water is lost and the expensive to replace electrodes remain wet during long term storage,

[NanDiscus]

Phoned the water company this morning and they said, that we're still on the normal source, there was no need to switch to the winter back-up.

I haven't tested the KH with a colormetric kit yet, I will do this once I'll have a kit at hand. The only information I can refer to is what the water company was kind enough to provide me this morning. They test the water once a week. Just to give you a little insight into the Hungarian language, I present the test results in Hungarian:

* Összes keménység: 233 nk
* pH: 7,32
* Elektromos vezetőképesség: 669 µS/cm
* KOI ps: 0,4 mg O2/l (COD)
* Nátrium: _ mg/l
* Kálcium: 93 mg/l
* Magnézium: 46,5 mg/l
* Arzén: _ µg/l
* Ammónium: <0,06 mg/l
* Nitrit: <0,05 mg/l
* Nitrát: 4,6 mg/l
* Klorid: 9 mg/l
* Szulfát: 52 mg/l
* Vas: <0,05 mg/l - Iron
* Mangán: <0,05 mg/l
* Alumínium: <0,05 mg/l

Tested the water again this morning, placed the water sample on the floor in the middle of the room and the readings were:

- Tap water: 700mS; pH 7.1 (???)
- Tank water: 130mS; pH 7,62


Larry,
The RO unit works perfectly, gives me 1-3ppm permeate water out of the ~400ppm feed. I change both the sediment filter and the carbon filters every six months, so the membranes are fine. The figues I gave you in the prev. post were the figures of the RO+tap mix. That's what came to 60mS.
Also, all the testing instruments are used, calibrated and stored as required, so there should be no issues with them.

Going home to my parents' place tomorrow to pick up some of that excellent peat I've been using for ages and will add that to the water prep. tank. I don't want to add acid to the tank itself in any form. Although the conductivity reading is not very low in the tank, I would say, that quite a lot of it comes from the salt content of the artemia, plus all the other substances introduced with all the other foods. I add nothing to the water otherwise.

As for the mold (mould in the UK - I thought I misspelled), there is an evident relation between the pH and its presence. I bet myself a dozen cans of Guinness, that it will disappear once the pH goes back under 7. I hope I win.

Nandi

[NanDiscus]

Pic of the day. (Yesterday.)
Have some more, I shall resize them, but I have to go and move the paddock for the horses first...

Nandi

[black-bass]

Hi Nandi!

As the fishes are getting stronger, they are becoming nicer!

Greetings: Laci

[darbex]

Beautiful colors