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David's Breeding Timeline
In an effort to document the sequence of events that may be helpful to others that have a pair that they would like breed and raise their fry, I will use this thread to log information, pictures, and videos of my experience with this process from the time pairing behavior began to growing out the fry to adulthood. I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but am willing to share what I've learned from other great Simply Discus members, breeders, and hobbyist along the way.
Should you have any questions, need clarification, or wish to offer comments or offer suggestions that will add to this timeline, please feel free to send me a PM or post to my companion discussion thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=75468.
Thanks in advance to all though who have or will contribute to this thread, so that others will hopefully have a source to refer to when it comes time for them to give the breeding experience a try.
Kind Regards,
David
Last edited by David Rose; 01-04-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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Re: David's Breeding Timeline
Pairing Behavior:
For me, pairing behavior between two of my adjult discus in my 140G community tank began in early October 2009 when I observed my 7" Silver Pigeon Blood and my 6" Red Gold Diamond spending the majority of their time together. At this point, I didn't know which was male or female, but this became obvious in the coming week.
The other actual behaviors that I began to observe were the two selected an area in the tank (their spawning site) where they spent their time cleaning in a pecking like motion. This happened to be on one of my two Mega Flow Overflow chambers, but it could have easily been any clean surface that they chose. Along with the cleaning, I would see the two both shimmy and shake periodically and if any other fish came near this spawning site, they would chase them away to protect their area of the tank.
Sometimes, there may be a competing male or female and you may notice the contender being chased away or even fighting to various degrees. Normally, they should work this out for themselves without the need for intervention.
Last edited by David Rose; 01-04-2010 at 03:52 PM.
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Re: David's Breeding Timeline
Spawning:
Once the female and/or male have prepared their spawning site having cleaned it as mentioned earlier, they will stay close to the spawning site and face in its general direction.
These sites can be most any smooth surface such as the filter intake tube, driftwood, plants, decorations, or even the glass walls or bottom of your tank. Some folks use terracota "breeding cones", 6" terracota gardening pots inverted on the tank bottom, PVC tubing, a long piece of slate rock or other similar items to provide something other than the glass walls of the tank.
If you decide you are ready to breed your discus and raise the fry, there are a number of things that you will want to do in order to prepare.
1) You will want to separate your pair into a tank of their own for maximum chance of success away from other fish and this tank should be 20-30G size and preferably used as a bare bottom tank for ease of maintenance.
2) You will want to purchase 2 sponge filters of adequate size along with an air pump. These are preferred as they are safest for the young fry and inexpensive. You will need to cycle these filters, which will take approximately three to five weeks depending on whether you start fresh using a fishless cycle or seed them from an existing tank that is already fully cycled.
3) Depending on your water parameters such as pH, TDS (total dissolved solids), GH, and KH you may need to use RO (reverse osmosis water) to have suitable water conditions for breeding. If your TDS is too high, eggs may turn white quickly after being laid. I keep my TDS around 30 using RO water.
4) I keep my pH at about 6.7.
5) Water temperature will impact development timelines. I keep my water temp at 84-85F, but 86F is preferred.
6) In general, pH, GH and KH ranges can vary, but typcially fall in the ranges below:
*PH ideal 5 to 6.5 range 4 to 8
*GH 0 to 10, ideal 2 to 6
*KH 0 to 10, ideal 2 to 6
(*contributed by pscb23)
For my choices, I used a 46G bow front tank as my breeder tank, bare bottom, and added two 4" sponge filters, performed a fishless cycle and I added a 6" terracotta pot in the hopes my discus would use it. Please note that you should block the drain hole at the bottom of the pot to prevent food, eggs, or wrigglers from getting trapped. I used a piece of left over plastic and silicone to seal mine shut.
Other useful links:
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/...spawning.shtml
Last edited by David Rose; 01-04-2010 at 03:53 PM.
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Re: David's Breeding Timeline
Side notes to date:
Keep your breeding tank simple. Biological filtration (sponge filters), heater, aeration, and a lighting. If you're using a normal overhead tank light during the day, you can leave it on 24/7 or you can use a night light or nearby floor lamp after hours to provide sufficient light. This will allow the parents to see the eggs in order to fan the eggs or wrigglers and later it will help the fry find their parents to feed. (Contributed by Kacyeo, Eddie, mmoris)
If you're using a HOB or Canister filters, you should have a pre-filter sponge on the intake tube. For breeding purposes, you should cover the intake and or pre-filter sponge with a nylon. *You can use a ladies nylon wrapped around the intake tube. (*Contributed by mmorris) Or you can use a fine micron media bag securing either with a rubber band. This will protect the fry from being pulled into your filter.
During the actual spawning process, you should turn off your filters for an hour or two to reduce current in the tank and maximize the fertilization process. Don't forget to turn them back on. Use a timer if need be.
To promote spawning you can do a number of things such as feed a higher protein diet such as beef heart, frozen blood worms etc. You can perform partial water changes with slightly cooler water. You can drop the water level and raise it gradually over a number of days. You can separate the pair for a few days then reunite them. Just be patient! More often than not, they'll work it out on their own and you won't need to do a thing.
During the time in which a pair is formed and throughout the spawning process, you will observe that the female and or male will darken in color. This is totally normal as this is a sign that the parent(s) is developing food for the fry once they become "free swimmers" following the "wriggler" stage of development.
Keep the bottom of your breeding tank and pre-filters clean and perform at least partial water changes 2x/3x daily. I use a smaller 1/4" tube to clean the bottom of my tank, which removes less water and allows me to be more agile while cleaning to avoid accidentally siphoning out any wrigglers or fry. This water goes into a 5G bucket, which I inspect for any fry as well before dumping. I keep a small brine shrimp net on hand just in case I need to transport back any fry to the main tank.
In the event that the majority of your eggs develop a fungus, the next spawn you may want to use a *preventative dose of 1 drop/gallon of anti-fungal such as Formalin, Methylene Blue or Acriflavin. (*contributed by Kaceyo) *Dose once the fertilization process has been completed. (*contributed by Moon)
Caution should be used as it may impact your biological filter, so I'd recommend you monitor your water parameters closely if you decide to use it. It is not needed in my opinion after the eggs have hatched into wrigglers.
Last edited by David Rose; 01-14-2010 at 06:06 PM.
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Re: David's Breeding Timeline
As you can see from the photos above, the fry seem to be doing well. The female (RGD) seems to have developed some fin degradation most likely due to the strain of doing the bulk of the feeding. Some of the fry have gone to the male to feed on occasion.
Currently, the water level is still down just above the sponge intake tubes and I will increase the level slowly starting with the final water change later today. The reason for this is that I tried to raise the water level all at once and noticed the fry gathered in a corner and didn't go back to the mother to feed, so I lowered the water level again and the fry went back to feed from the mother.
Water changes are at 25-50% once in the morning to clean the bottom and again a couple of hours after the last feeding for the parents at 7 p.m. Your routine may vary, but it is important to keep the tank clean removing all waste and uneaten food to prevent fowling the water or possibly creating a bacterial issue.
Last edited by David Rose; 01-14-2010 at 06:09 PM.
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Re: David's Breeding Timeline
I bought a brine shrimp hatchery awhile back and practiced a couple of times to prepare for when I had fry old enough to start them on it at week one. Unfortunately, I haven't been successful in hatching them out yet, which has concerned me a little. Until I get it right, I bought Hikari Frozen Baby Brine Shrimp and have also bought some of Kensfish.com Golden Pearl baby brine shrimp substitute at the 200-300 micron size.
I'll update later on in this thread my experience with the Golden Pearls, but for now I'll note the instructions in using them as per Kensfish.com (these instructions do not come on or with the package):
"You should use them dry. They will sink but when they go down through the water column they mimic the baby brine shrimp. If you soak them they will sink right down because the small air pocket will be full of water inside of them. We have people that use a pepper shaker on them and shake them over the tank. You will also want to store them in a cool dry place or in the refrigerator to from absorbing moisture."
For now, I thawed a cube of the Hikari FBBS in a small glass and used a small syringe to fill it to the 1tsp/5ml mark and injected the BBS above the female and fry. Amazingly, they detached from the female and chased after the BBS.
So far I've observed that the fry will stay pretty close to the parents, so the food of choice needs to be in the water column just above or around the parents given the fry at this point will not venture away from the parents.
Last edited by David Rose; 01-14-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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Re: David's Breeding Timeline
Two Week Video:
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Re: David's Breeding Timeline
Water Changes
My water change routine doesn't change until the wrigglers go free swimming then I switch to doing partial water changes after first and last feeding of the day.
I use a six foot 1/4" RO drain tube to clean the bottom first each time given it takes in less water, but gets everything off the bottom more efficiently within 10 mins. This drains into a Home Depot bucket then I check for fry with a flash light. I tried the white container approach and for whatever reason found it more difficult to see fry accidentally caught in the flow. I found I preferred the firmer drain tubing that gave me more control in aiming the siphon to avoid fry and not have to stick my hands in the water.
After cleaning, I switch to my regular WC siphon and draw from an area of the tank away from the fry for the remaining. I do two water changes a day, squeeze out the sponges to remove BBS etc. and wipe down the insides of the tank once a day.
*To reduce the amount of debris/left over BBS caught up in my sponges, I now shut off the filters for 20 minutes during feeding time, vacuum the bottom while most stuff has settled, and turn back on the filters. (*contributed by Paul/pcsb23)
Last edited by David Rose; 01-20-2010 at 10:32 AM.
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