Which heater is good for discus

[tech]

I will never use Marineland Stealth heaters ever again. I once touched the water during a WC on a 20g tank and got a painful electric shock!! It turned out that there was a small area of the heater casing about 3mm long that had split along a seam and was slowly letting in water. The heater was 6 years old, but since it was supposedly "guaranteed for life", I was not impressed to say the least . Due to lack of hard cash, I am currently using Via Aqua glass heaters; they were not my preferred choice, but when I have the $$$ available, I will replace them with Eheim Jagers or something similar- but NOT Marineland Stealth ones...

Colin

scottishbloke, I'm with you on that, no more stealth heater. Had to many bad experiences with this company. LOL

[Eddie]

Eddie,

You're testing the accuracy of the thermostat, not the heating capacity. A smaller container would give you results quicker than a larger one.

LOL, thanks for the lesson.

Jagers are notorious for needing calibration IMLE.

All the best Tech

Eddie

[tech]

LOL, thanks for the lesson.

Jagers are notorious for needing calibration IMLE.

All the best Tech

Eddie

Thanks, Eddie I was just hoping it was something easy, where you can just plug and play.

[Eddie]

Thanks, Eddie I was just hoping it was something easy, where you can just plug and play.

Yeah, I guess all heaters have there ups and down. As Jhhnn recommended, a controller would be a good idea.

Eddie

[Lukan]

LOL, thanks for the lesson.

Jagers are notorious for needing calibration IMLE.

All the best Tech

Eddie

Hi Eddie,

How often should the Jagers be calibrated.

Thanks

[Jhhnn]

I will never use Marineland Stealth heaters ever again. I once touched the water during a WC on a 20g tank and got a painful electric shock!! It turned out that there was a small area of the heater casing about 3mm long that had split along a seam and was slowly letting in water. The heater was 6 years old, but since it was supposedly "guaranteed for life", I was not impressed to say the least . Due to lack of hard cash, I am currently using Via Aqua glass heaters; they were not my preferred choice, but when I have the $$$ available, I will replace them with Eheim Jagers or something similar- but NOT Marineland Stealth ones...

Colin

When I had multiple smaller tanks for smaller fish, years ago, I used a lot of visitherms, had no big problems with them. They're maybe the best of the inexpensive heaters. They don't appear to have changed at all in 20 years. They're easier to break than the Jagers, however. The price delta for Jagers was huge back then.

Bob Garside of Upper Canada Discus says that the Sera heaters are also good, and I believe him. Their market penetration in the US isn't very strong, so they're hard to find, unfortunately...

Calibration has always been an issue wrt aquarium heaters. For most fishkeepers, it's not a big deal- just compensate with the setting. At the higher temps most people use with discus, it's sometimes problematical- when you turn the dial all the way up and the actual temp is 80F, well, that's no good.

Your new Jager may need calibration, tech- just follow the instructions I set out earlier if it does. Not really a big deal, at all.

[Eddie]

Hi Eddie,

How often should the Jagers be calibrated.

Thanks

Generally only once IME. About half of mine have never been calibrated, I just adjust the dial to get the temp I want, even if the dial is off, you can still get the right water temp. The temp of the tank NEVER budges...ever.


Eddie

[Eddie]

Bob Garside of Upper Canada Discus says that the Sera heaters are also good, and I believe him. Their market penetration in the US isn't very strong, so they're hard to find, unfortunately...

SERA heaters can be picked up at Aquacave.com. I ordered one when Bob recommended them and it is very stable, not as sturdy as the jagers but they come with a plastic guard to prevent shattering.


Eddie

[scottishbloke]

Hey Guys 'n' Gals,

Can any of you recommend where to get the Eheim Jager heaters online for a good price? I looked around a bunch of LFS within driving distance of my house and those few that that do stock them are charging crazy prices. I usually do my own online searches, but you lot always seem to find better deals than me on just about everything...

Colin

[diamond_discus]

Diamond discus,thanks for the reply. I have try it and it seem to be doing the same thing. So I took it back and return it and got a new one.

The new one is actually working properly.

As for the Stealth heater, that is base on what the rep told me was that they need a copy of the sales receipt.

No, you don't need a receipt .. but you don't return it to the store .. you send it back to the warranty place ... PM me and I will send you the return address. I got that from DrFosterSmith support.

[Jhhnn]

Hey Guys 'n' Gals,

Can any of you recommend where to get the Eheim Jager heaters online for a good price? I looked around a bunch of LFS within driving distance of my house and those few that that do stock them are charging crazy prices. I usually do my own online searches, but you lot always seem to find better deals than me on just about everything...

Colin

Kensfish, one of our sponsors. Try to buy whatever else you need at the same time to hold total shipping costs down...

[Eddie]

Kensfish, one of our sponsors. Try to buy whatever else you need at the same time to hold total shipping costs down...

+1, got my last batch of Jagers from Kensfish.com.

[Darrell Ward]

I think Jagers are more efficent than many other heaters with higher wattages as well. Example: I have a 150 gal. that has 2- 250 watt Jagers in it. I have no problem keeping any temp. I want in it. In fact, I feel I could get away with only one of the heaters in there, although one would not be nearly as efficent at higher temps., and would probably stay on most of the time. This tank use to have a 500 watt titanium heater on a Ranco controller. It worked, but was not nearly as efficent, and had a harder time keeping a steady temp. It always bounced around a couple degrees. The Jagers are much better. When the 8 year old controller crapped out, in went the 2 new Jagers. Should have done that years ago.

[tech]

No, you don't need a receipt .. but you don't return it to the store .. you send it back to the warranty place ... PM me and I will send you the return address. I got that from DrFosterSmith support.

Diamond discus,
Thanks, for the help and info,but I no longer have it anymore. Due to the fact that they wanted a receipt back 2 weeks ago,and that i didn't have one. So i just threw it out.

[Jhhnn]

I think Jagers are more efficent than many other heaters with higher wattages as well. Example: I have a 150 gal. that has 2- 250 watt Jagers in it. I have no problem keeping any temp. I want in it. In fact, I feel I could get away with only one of the heaters in there, although one would not be nearly as efficent at higher temps., and would probably stay on most of the time. This tank use to have a 500 watt titanium heater on a Ranco controller. It worked, but was not nearly as efficent, and had a harder time keeping a steady temp. It always bounced around a couple degrees. The Jagers are much better. When the 8 year old controller crapped out, in went the 2 new Jagers. Should have done that years ago.

All electric aquarium heaters are basically 100% efficient, with current being converted directly to heat. They're just big resistors.

OTOH, there are lots of different ways to configure resistors. Jagers, for example, are a single resistor, with lower resistance for higher wattages. We can see that thru the glass, one continuous wire wrapped around a ceramic core. Some other heaters may not be set up that way- they could be using two 250W resistors in parallel to get 500W total output. In that scenario, one resistor might be open while the other is working fine, so real heat output would only be 250W. It's impossible to tell about the titanium heaters without tearing them apart... but the current draw and therefore the heat output of any resistor can be obtained using an ohm meter and some basic math.

There are also issues wrt differential, or hysteresis. With conventional bimetal thermostats, the switch points are closed during heating, and then snap open, stay open until they cool off, then snap shut and the cycle repeats. The difference in temperature is the differential. This process is also affected by the thermal mass (latent heat) of the element and associated hardware. With heaters having a lot of mass, the temp of the heated medium will go up slightly even after the element is turned off, as the heat equalizes. This increases the differential. Even electronic thermostats generally have a differential of at least 1F.

Too little differential is hard on the thermostat, because it cycles more often than with a larger differential, wears out faster. Too much is not good for the fish. Water itself has huge thermal mass, unlike air, so it tends to be more stable temp-wise, harder to move in any direction.

What that all translates into is that aquarists should use the smallest heater that will maintain to proper temp with minimal cycling in their given situation. If your house is kept at a very constant temp, day and night, then you can use a smaller heater than if you let the room temp sink at night. If your tanks are insulated and have tight fitting tops, you can use smaller heaters. If you turn down the house thermostat when gone on a winter vacation, you'll want heaters that can pick up the additional load... Lots of variables, but it's easy to oversize heaters, which turns into a big problem very quickly if they fail on... It's tough to be wrong if the usual recommendation of 3-5W/gal is observed...

Part of what I do for a living is HVAC work, and a lot of that knowledge transfers from air to water directly...