Apistogrammes good or bad for discus

[DiscusFreakaZoid]

.

[zamboniMan]

Freakazoid... Species?

[bs6749]

Checkeboad Cichlids in good conditions can be incredibly beautiful and they thrive in warm water. Virtually all Dicrossus filamentosus are wild caught imports and do not have the weaknesses many of the more highly bred color varieties of Apistogramma species exhibit
They are perhaps the best bargains out their among the SA dwarf Cichlids. You can often find them on line for as little as $4.00 each and to me a high price in a fish shop would be $8.00 each.

Photo of the female with new spawn on the clay pot.

Pretty plain and ugly if you ask me. Not worth $4 for sure.

I always bought mine from David P. Soares: http://apistogrammaidiots.com/David_...p__soares.html

He goes by ApistoDave on Aquabid and other fish sites.

Here is another place with a decent variety:

http://www.cichlids.net/pages/fish.p...nd+West+Africa

Stay away from ApistoDave. I ordered nearly $120 worth of apistos from him several years ago describing exactly what I wanted. I gave him a list of the species, and sex ratios and verified what I wanted several times with him in emails as I had heard that his communication was pretty bad. He ships me a box with my order completely screwed up, missing about 6 fish, far more males and not enough females from what I had hordered, and a handful of them died in shipping. He says he will replace them and reship. I again tell him
what to send me. Second order arrives....all dead. He says he will send them a third time. He does, and a couple die in shipping. I more or less get what I had wanted in the first place but was lacking females of a couple of species and had way too many fish of another species. I decided that it wasn't worth going back for more fish and instead I would inform others to stay away from him as my experience was pretty poor overall. His fish are okay at best, certainly not breeding quality in my opinion. I won't do business with him again and there are others that have had similar experiences with him.

I suggest that if you do want to go through ApistoDave, that you make sure to inform him of EXACTLY what you are looking for. Also, this guy doesn't seem to be capable of doing math as he lists certain prices on his AquaBid auctions and then jacks up the prices in emails. Watch out for that!

[Apistomaster]

Among Dwarf Cichlid specialists, Dicrossus filamentosus are a popular species and are considered to be among the most graceful looking and colorful of the SA Dwarf Cichlids/ They are a very challenging specie to breed and raise. It isn't too hard to spawn them but getting the eggs to hatch and having the females care for the brood is hard. Unless water quality is perfect and extremely soft and acid their eggs will not hatch. They have a well developed lyre tail which is not matched by any other species. Those who do not like them are a small minority but to each his/her own. Dicrossus filamentosus are much more difficult to breed than domestic Discus.

I have been buying fish from Dave Soares for many years and I have always received what I ordered and I have never had any fish arrive DOA.
Many people want to buy trios or even more females but if he sold his Dwarf Cichlids that way he would end up with a surplus of males which no one would buy.
I only sell Apistogramma in pairs. If you want a trio, most dwarf Cichlids breeders will sell only pairs so you would have to buy at least 2 pairs to get your trio. Furthermore, the Apistogramma tend to have sex ratios skewed in favor of the males so females are at a premium.
Not all Apistogramma should be set up in trios. It is an over generalization to say that they are harem spawners. Apistogramma species which are best set up as pairs include A. hongsloi, A.macmasteri, A, viejia and A. cacatuoides. The males of these species participate in the brood care once the fry have become free swimming.

Some of the Apistogramma which will spawn in harems well include A. borelli, A. trifasciata,
A. agassizi. Since there are over 100 Apistogramma species with new species being discovered and imported all the time one has to research the particular needs of a given species. Apistogramma barlowi is a true mouth brooder which is unique among the
Apistogramma. If anyone is serious about keeping and breeding Apistogramma and any other Dwarf Cichlids I recommend they register on www.apistogramma.com.
There is a great deal of information available as well as an active forum for discussions.

[waters10]

Let me bring back an "old" thread here.

I saw some dicrossus maculatus on my LFS today. Owner was telling me how it's one of his favorite fish. Pretty pricey at $25, I thought! Why is it so much more than filamentosus? From pictures, they look pretty much the same to me!

Can anyone (hint: Apistomaster, cause his name was the only one that showed up on a search ) tell me more about this guy? Does he need to be in a group? Can he get along with blue rams? He seems out of my price range for a discus tankmate, but I thought it was an intriguing little fish!

[whitedevil]

I got a well maybe a few questions here


you all say they do well together, how do dwarfs do with other dwarfs? like the smiling acara and rams ect?

what dwarfs do well together and with discus? and if so what dwarfs(so I can research their native environments to decide if they go in the 210 or 45.)

water is RO sourced

Ph is 6.8-7.0 controlled via pressurized Co2 never gets above 7.0
all other parameters are fine.

How hard are apisto's to keep in relation to other SA cich's?


Thanks


THe pics in this thread are stunning, very nice fish!

[Apistomaster]

There are so many species of Apistogramma, a hand full of Dicrossus and Nannacara species that it isn't possible to generalize.
Research the species which interest you, be honest with yourself about your willingness to provide what the more demanding species require.

I often keep some SA Dwarf Cichlids in wild Discus display tanks but it is best to set up a tank for only one species of dwarf Cichlid with perhaps a few dither fish like small pencilfish and/or Hatchetfish. Most of these will stay near the surface and not bother any fry with the exception of the commonly available Pencilfish, Nannostomus beckfordi. This one is more predatory and frequents all zones of the water column.

I have kept and bred both Dicrossus maculatus and Dicrossus filamentosus. Both are very pretty Dwarf Cichlids. Dicrossus maculatus is rarely imported and only bred by a few people in the USA so they tend to be expensive. they grow to a larger size than D. filamentosus and the males develop a spade shaped tail. Dicrossus filamentosus are imported in fairly large numbers as they are often part of the by-catch when fishing for Cardinal Tetras. Since they sell for as little as $4 to $7 each not many people breed them for resale but because they are so inexpensive and beautiful they are a real bargain. Adult males are covered with silver-blue spangles and develop very nice lyre tails. To the one poster who described them derisively, all I can say is there is no accounting for tastes. I'll take some adult wild Dicrossus filamentosus over bubblegum machine colored domestic discus any day. To each his/her own. If they were rarer than they are and we were dependent on tank bred specimens they too would cost $25 each. Not an easily bred and raised fish.
They are a very challenging fish to breed and raise the fry. Their low price and similar water and food requirements make them one of the better choices among the SA Dwarf cichlids to use as Discus tank mates. You can get 6 or 10 of them for a large Discus tank and they will be noticed.

Most Apistogramma prefer to stay close to or on the bottom and are more reclusive. You should gain experience with keeping and breeding a few different species and be familiar with Discus keeping before you try keeping them together. I know what I can mix and how to accommodate the needs of both Apistogramma and Discus but I usually only keep one species of Apistogramma per tank and in a large tanks I may keep a couple of trios. I normally only do that if I have raised a few spawns of an Apistogramma and have some extra fish to experiment with in with the Discus. I would not recommend buying a pair then tossing them into a Discus tank.
When I am advising experienced aquarists just getting into Discus I often tell them that if they treat their Discus like big Apistogramma they will not make many mistakes.
I have already mentioned this but in case it didn't sink in, please join www.apistogramma.com. You will learn from a broad base of expert Dwarf Cichlid breeders about how to take care of these fish in general and the specifics that apply to individual species. Apistogramma species are not ideal tank mates for Discus but it can be done.

[whitedevil]

Ok with that being said, I will join up and read the post word for word, what I get is either have them with more aggressive SA cichlids then discus or just straight dwarfs.

I am not interested in breeding them yet due to no knowledge of shipping but I do know locally there is a market for them, they are not a common fish around me, atleast within 25 miles.

I do have a tank of more aggressive then usual angels in it with a pair of rams, they dont bother eachother and for some reason the angels make way for the rams to cruise thru their school.

[Apistomaster]

Apistogramma are shy and peaceful fish. They should be the most dominant species in the tank but they do fine with most of the popular small Tetras and other small Characins.
Don't try to keep them with larger more aggressive Cichlids.
Discus are one of the exception of a larger Cichlid which can often be kept with some Apistogramma spp. I just think you should learn some more about them before you mix them with discus.
I can give you a short list of Apistogramma I know can coexist with Discus which are not too hard to find.
A. borelli, A. trifasciata, A. cacatuoides, A. agassizi. A. macmasteri, A. hongsloi and A. viejita.
I already recommended Dicrossus filamentosus.
That is enough species to try and also become more familiar with their needs and behaviors.

[ste12000]

Im with Apistomaster on this one, Dicrossus filamentosus is a truely stunning fish when kept correctly, its true that the females are not overly colourful but wait until the male is fully adult and showing off, a nicer fish you could not wish to see...

Here are some pics from the UK of the Orinoco form of D.filamentosus.

[vera]

Nice shots guys!!
in my Discus planted i keep Apistos and Rams
my absolute fav are Hongsloi and Orange Cacas

My Rams

[Eddie]

Nice shots guys!!
in my Discus planted i keep Apistos and Rams
my absolute fav are Hongsloi and Orange Cacas

Beautiful fish Vera! I also like Hongloi, never owned them but hope to in the future. Paul posted one a while back and I was really taken by them. I believe this link was the picture he referenced. Amazing coloration! Same one in post #31

http://www.mariozanolli.it/contenuti...ongsloi_II.jpg

Eddie

[vera]

Beautiful fish Vera! I also like Hongloi, never owned them but hope to in the future. Paul posted one a while back and I was really taken by them. I believe this link was the picture he referenced. Amazing coloration! Same one in post #31

http://www.mariozanolli.it/contenuti...ongsloi_II.jpg

Eddie

Thank u Eddie!
WOW what a beautiful sp on link u provided, tnx
Their interaction in the community tank is fascinating , completely dif from other cichlids

[whitedevil]

NICE ram, vera.


Well the discus arent going to be their tank mates, possibly other rams ,maybe a pair of angels quite a few small tetras.

The discus are my dad's (I am 30) and I was looking into it for him, but now I am looking for me, he said he will find species he likes then pass them onto me to do the homework on. The discus arent in question anymore, sorry guys but if you arent racist towards angels that info will help me greatly.

Or a tank of their own. I am on that site not apistomaster doing alot of reading.

I appreciate the help, I think I am going to post over there if I dont find anything out on the angels compatibility I am more then likely going to do a tank of apistos or rams.( I absolutely love the EB male I got from windycity, female passed but got a GB ram replacement female and well lets jsut say the mourning period is long gone for him.)

Thanks fin addicts, we all gotta stick together.

[Apistomaster]

NICE ram, vera.

Or a tank of their own. I am on that site not apistomaster doing alot of reading.

Which site? apistogramma.com or finarama.com.
I post a lot on both. apistogramma.com calls me an expert.(I did not get that designation by asking for it.)
Finarama.com I am a global moderator but I do not write much on topics which are not my strengths but others do. We have several moderators and administrators and each has complementary expertise in different areas. Both these forums are smaller and less active than simplydiscus.com. There will be a spike of activity on finarama.com as soon as the first small P. altums become available.

I do maintain a presence on both sites since I have been involved with SA Dwarf Cichlids as long as i have been involved with Discus which is now well over 4 decades.
I know a lot about wild Angelfish but I actually sold my last, a group of 8 Peruvian Scalares which included 3 breeding pairs and all my 10 adult Heckel Discus just to make room for more wild Symphysodon haraldi now and S. aequifasciata in the near future.
I'm glad to assist you in answering any questions you have about Apistogramma and wild Angels any time but probably best to do so on the most appropriate forum.