Help 92 gal Tank Sump

[caparzo]

I'll get behind there and shoot a photo of the shutoff valve that allows me to just turn the pump off and not lose all the water..

[nc0gnet0]

Your sump will never overflow if it is setup correctly. I currently run a 200 gallon tank with a 30 gallon sump, overflows are typically the bain of sump users that use a HOB syphon style overflow/sump design. You have a pre-drilled design.

You need to extend the pvc fitting via a weir or other devices up the tank so the water can only flow into the sump at a point just below the water line of the display tank. Most of the time this is done via a chamber inside the tank with slotted holes just below the water line, but it appears that you have a tank that was not set-up originally for a sump, but was then later drilled out to accept one.

Once you have extended the pvc line up the back of the tank just below the anticipated water line, you fill the tank until the water begins to enter the overflow point, carefully watching the volume of water in the sump. Once the level of the water in the sump is were you want it, you stop adding water. if you lose power, the water will stop entering the sump once it is below were it can enter the pvc/weir. As long as your sump has the capacity to hold this volume of water, your never going to have an issue.

You want you water flow into the sump to be greater than the water that your return pump can put back into the tank, otherwise you will be running the pump dry and burn it up. It is also better to have about 1/3 of your bio-media submersed, in case you have a power outage and your bio-media drys out, otherwise you might lose all of it and be forced to re-cycle your tank.

Your design that you want to copy is just ok. Better designs utilize filter socks prior to hitting the bio-balls for an effective pre-filter. Filter socks are cheap and can be used over and over after a carefull rinse and can be purchased down to sizes of 5 microns (or smaller).

There area few drawbacks to sumps. The first is they can be incredible nitrate factories. Second is typically the draw the water only from the very top of the water column, so debris that has settled does not get filtered. This is were a second canister would be helpfull, or at a minimum a powerhead to help keep the debris suspended until it can get pulled down the overflow tube.......

If you are going to run a UV, the best place would be inline on the return line of the sump pump.

[nc0gnet0]

One last thing, just because your tank has a bulkhead installed in the bottom doesn't mean it was used with a sump. Some users do that and just plumb a canister filter there (neater appearance) . In this case you wold definately need a shut of valve for when you serviced the filter.

I would recommend against using any type of float valve etc, to control the flow of water into the sump (if you are attempting to draw water from down deep). These are all destined to fail, and when they do it ain't pretty.

[underwaterforest]

Here some pictures of my progress so far. I decided to use a cheap 20 gallon tote from target with a 30 qt media tray inside. The media is the bio-bale (aka PVC shavings) with a layer of polyfill for the filtration layer. My other filter will be a magnum 350 with a UV light and an air driven sponge filter.

[Jhhnn]

Looks like you're on your way! You made a smart move going to a large sump- no overflow worries...

Keep us posted, please!

[underwaterforest]

And everything was going so great but I hit a snafu that is really irritating. The sump works wonderful, but the draining sound from the tank intake tube is just plain annoying. It sounds like someone is drinking the last bit of a shake, continuously. The noise probably has something to do with my pump, which is way over sized for this application. The pump is a mag drive 1200 gph pump. I was thinking of getting a smaller pump or a redesign on the intake tube. Anybody have a good idea, I'm in a bind?

[underwaterforest]

Here a picture of the intake tube. I tried removing the top piece and removing the whole tube, but the results is always the same. What size sump pump do you use?

[Jhhnn]

Your pump is, as you've noticed, way too large. Something on the order of a mag 5 should be entirely adequate, and you'll probably want to restrict the outlet somewhat even on that.

My own sustem uses a perforated standpipe section with a sponge filter around it. It's just open at the top. I control noise by controlling flow, eliminate gurgling by not allow enough flow for gurgling to occur. Water just runs down the inside of the pipe, never filling it. There will always be some running water noise because of the tank overflow itself.

We don't need or want the high flowrates that marine enthusiasts employ. For our purposes, media volume trumps flow almost entirely.

There are a lot of different designs for the business end of a standpipe. They almost all rely on injecting the right amount of air into the flow at the right place to reduce gurgling in high flow systems.

This page discusses some of the alternatives, with the hofer gurgle buster being what seems to me to be maybe the best-

http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson...HGB/index.html

This guy developed a truly ingenious system, not practical in your circumstances or mine, but he gives a very good understanding of why and how noise occurs-

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/s...ow-system.aspx

Just my opinion. My experience is quite limited, so don't think I'm presenting it as gospel, please.

[Darrell Ward]

I haven't read your whole thread, but based on the picture, maybe I can offer some helpful advice for your gurgling noise. On the standpipe, where you have a ell, remove it and place a tee, so that the intake comes out the side of the tee, and leaves your standpipe open on the end (top). On this open end, put a small piece of pipe in the tee fitting, so you can place a cap. Fit an ell again on the side for your intake. The screen is not really needed. Besides, you wouldn't want that screen to clog, blocking flow. Fire up you pump, and drill a tiny hole in the cap, making the hole larger until the gurgling, flushing sounds stop, and the water level in the box remains stable. If you have a 1" bulkhead, and are using a 1" standpipe, scrap the 1" stand pipe and use a 1 1/4" standpipe and intake. Use a reducer fitting on the bulkhead so it will hookup on the bottom. It may be a tight fit in your box, but you can trim the fitting if you have to, and it will fit. Why? It just works better. Been there done that. This has worked for me on many tanks over the years. Also, if your pump is too large, just put a ball valve on the output side of the pump to regulate flow.

[Darrell Ward]

If you find you are getting percolating noises from the spray bar going to your media, you may have to open up those holes to a larger size to make it stop. This sometimes happens. Has to do with pressure and air I guess.

[underwaterforest]

Thanks for all the suggestions, people on this board are wonderful. Last night I tried regulating the pump pressure with vice grips on the hose but the best I could do was created a pulsed flow that sounds very ocean like but the sound was still loud. I am currently looking for a smaller mag drive pump, I might go with the 500 or 700 since my tank stand is rather tall and the tank is pretty deep and I always can put a valve on the pump if it is too large. Jhnnn, I really like the gargle blaster idea and may give it a go later today, plus the Douglas Adams reference was priceless. Darrell, I'm still debating about going to the larger stand pipe diameter (I have a 1" standpipe on the sump inlet and 3/4" on the pump outlet), it seems like a good idea also. Keep you all update when I get the next mod going. On the lighter side of life I have no leaks in my system, Yeeeehhhh!

[caparzo]

Looks good.. very creative. Keep us posted !

[underwaterforest]

Problem solved. I went to the store earlier and bought the mag drive 5 and some fittings for the gargle blaster. When I put on the mag 5 the gurgling sound went away completely. I did even need to build the gargle blaster, thanks for the pump suggestion jhhnn. I did have to make another spray bar to compensate for the now much lower pressure from the mag 5 but that only took a few minutes. Here is a pic of the new bar. I think my setup is complete and I haven't put that much money into the setup. Finishing painting the stand and canopy black since hte previous color was an old antique greenish gray that looked horrible.

[nc0gnet0]

It will be a bio-filtration powerhouse. Are you getting good dispersion of water over the entire media? Just be carefull to monitor your nitrate levels, the one drawback of these sumps as they tend to produce quite a bit as they age. My next project of this nature will be a three level bakki shower into an algea scrubber (to strip nitrates).

[Jhhnn]

Something I forgot to mention, and that you might want to keep for future reference is that the sound of water running down the overflow standpipe is reduced when the tube is shorter, at least in my system. My overflow tube is only 6" tall, and I'd make it shorter if I could unscrew it, get it out... I screwed it in by hand, but I'll have to come up with a strap wrench or something to get it out...

Glad to see it's working out for you. It should give really good results. Wet/dry filters and protein skimmers revolutionized marine aquaria when they were introduced years ago... too bad protein skimmers don't work worth a damn in fresh water..

Oh, yeh- if the spray bar doesn't work the way you want in the long run, a drip plate would be easy enough to make- you clearly have the skills.