Why are discus so expensive ?

[2funkids]

Hi, just need a little help understanding how and why these fish are so costly, I know your lfs has the biggest overhead and only stocking what sells the most, so they look to buy stock for pennies on the dollar, then you have the hobbiest who for the passion of the hobbie can sometimes over doit and will try to sell some stock and try to make back what they spent on the fish when they purchased it, then you have the importers who try to pre-sale and move as many fish as they can so they can get better price and intern make even more profit, then you have local breeders whom only sale what thier breeding pair produce, so with that said, why is a 3" fish selling for 65.00 in a lfs and a breeder and importer asking the same ? so expencive no matter whom you buy from ? Someone has to draw the line here ! It's just not fun and a littel discouraging when your just starting out.

[rickztahone]

that was one long sentence.

the reason they are so expensive at the LFS is because they are greedy and try to make as much of a buck as possible on mediocre (at best) discus. if you check out our sponsor section (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?f=42) you can find way better quality than any lfs and i personally recommend Kenny Cheung (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?f=119), he has some cheap discus in smaller sizes which are top notch. you can usually find blue diamonds for around 20 bucks each at around 3" or so. stay away from lfs and read as much as you can here on SD, and welcome

[moik]

Never seen a discus worth me buying at a LFS,even at a super super savings sale at the LFS..It takes me to look at LFS discus,no matter how big the selection all about 10 seconds..I just take a quick look at the fish and prices,,and that enough for me....Poor quality and prices to scare anyone away..I have a pretty firm grasp on discus wholesale pricing and shipping cost figured in.....Pricing could mostly be reflective of the area's current market and LFS owner's profit margin..I choose to stay/buy with the sponsors here at Simply...

[2funkids]

ok, your right about the lfs, but have you seen some of the prices some of the sponcers on sd are asking ? I've seen as mush as 265.00 for a 5" fish that looks just like any other red melon also 200.00 for a 6" lelt over and the seller is just trying to
make some room for better new stock ? "COME ON MAN" !!!

[moik]

Sounds to me that you should be looking at other types of fish besides discus...In the world of discus,there are endless variety of strains which all come with different price tags..Then you put quality/health and size into the equasion and you make your decision from there..If the price tags are too rich for your blood then you have to evaluate everything for yourself..There is enough options out there to make your mind up..

[2funkids]

So what your saying is that you've eccepted that fact that a seller of quality discus is charging you 100.00 for a fish that only cost him 20.00 and your taking all the risk because if you spend say 500.00 on fish that was just starved for three days then ploped in a bag with about 5 to 20 other fish depending on size and shipped from over seas regardless of weather conditions and you don't realy know what long term effects this may have on the fish and that price tag is justified ? and the local breeders are no different you'de think they would be more affordable but they want the same the importers want. so are quality sellers any different then your lfs. yes you maybe getting a better discus but thats all they deal with so quality is the only way they can stay in business but at what price ?

[roclement]

I don't know were you are coming from...obviously you don't want to understand the trade as much as you want to be critical about it.

LFS usually buy "pet" quality fish from wholesalers, transhippers, or importers, they pay cheap and try to sell for the same price as a good quality fish would cost from a breeder because they think that the market will bear that price...if someone pays for it great!

As others have pointed out, there are less expensive fish to be had from reputable importers/breeders in this site. You can buy high quality fish at 2.5inch size for less than $40, many strains, if you take the time to browse the sponsors.

A 5 inch fish that is considered desirable or "AA" grade is worth considerably more because discus are slow growing, low yeld breeders. Let me explain...while a guppy has a brood of hundreds of fry every week, Discus breed maybe once a month, if you are lucky, and a usual clutch can be as little as 20 fish or as high as 100...if you are lucky...out of those, a lot die, a lot are culls, and a lot are just not "show" grade fish so, by the time you have a 5 inch fish, close to breeding age, of high quality, it can be worth some money!!! Even if it is a "left over" from a previos shipment.

On the other hand, if you choose to do som eresearch you will find high quality fish from importers like Hans that has specials from time to time, like adult, grad A fish, for $150!

All you have to do is search a bit.

Rodrigo

[hedut]

So what your saying is that you've eccepted that fact that a seller of quality discus is charging you 100.00 for a fish that only cost him 20.00 and your taking all the risk because if you spend say 500.00 on fish that was just starved for three days then ploped in a bag with about 5 to 20 other fish depending on size and shipped from over seas regardless of weather conditions and you don't realy know what long term effects this may have on the fish and that price tag is justified ? and the local breeders are no different you'de think they would be more affordable but they want the same the importers want. so are quality sellers any different then your lfs. yes you maybe getting a better discus but thats all they deal with so quality is the only way they can stay in business but at what price ?

Dude there no price for hobby the only thing is, is the price that you pay could make you happy? if don't so don't buy. not only discus some fish could be more and more expensive that you can ever think. I think discus are fragile so that's why expensive. people can put what ever price is but for local breeder they just looking some extra cash for next new fish or some maintenance.

[Spardas]

So what your saying is that you've eccepted that fact that a seller of quality discus is charging you 100.00 for a fish that only cost him 20.00 and your taking all the risk because if you spend say 500.00 on fish that was just starved for three days then ploped in a bag with about 5 to 20 other fish depending on size and shipped from over seas regardless of weather conditions and you don't realy know what long term effects this may have on the fish and that price tag is justified ? and the local breeders are no different you'de think they would be more affordable but they want the same the importers want. so are quality sellers any different then your lfs. yes you maybe getting a better discus but thats all they deal with so quality is the only way they can stay in business but at what price ?

Only thing I have to say is do more research please! Don't base your arguments on baseless assumptions and dig around for more information first before you even try to come to any sort of conclusion.

[discushans]

Not expensive if you start off with juvies. Only expensive if you are buying pairs. Same thing with other fish in this hobby

[Steve Rybicki]

Let me explain...while a guppy has a brood of hundreds of fry every week, Discus breed maybe once a month, if you are lucky, and a usual clutch can be as little as 20 fish or as high as 100...if you are lucky...out of those, a lot die, a lot are culls, and a lot are just not "show" grade fish so, by the time you have a 5 inch fish, close to breeding age, of high quality, it can be worth some money!!! Even if it is a "left over" from a previos shipment.
Rodrigo

Rodrigo, your intentions are correct, but your analogy is off. Guppies drop fry once every 30 days at 80 degrees. Average drops are around 40-50 fish. If you're comparing show stock guppies to show stock discus, price is similar and culls are just as plentiful - even more so in my experience. Good female guppies have a short breeding life and males have an even shorter one. A good discus pair can lay eggs every 4-7 days with hatchouts exceeding 100. If you develop an artificial rearing procedure, you can produce enormous numbers of fry from a single pair in a very short time frame.

The real difficulty with discus is they require much more space, and are not as reliable. Pairs can fight and not cooperate when spawning (guppies always cooperate, even though they may attempt to eat the fry). Discus can be notorious egg/fry eaters and they don't start breeding until at least 8 months old. Guppies are usually dropping by 3-4 months.

The reason discus are so expensive is a simple supply and demand situation. There are not many breeders in the U.S. They are not producing anywhere near the demand for particular strains. Imported fish come with lot's of expensive and risk that have to be covered. The transhipper has to house them, treat any problems, absorb any losses due to carrier negligence and give some kind of guarantee to the buyer. This stuff costs more than people think.

To the OP: If there is an enormous profit being made, the solution is simple. Build a hatchery, breed the fish by the thousands, undercut everyone's price and sit back, get rich, and retire young! Somehow, I don't think that's going to happen. Many have tried and most have seen that there is more money to be made, and easier money, by buying and reselling. There are actually a good number of resellers competing in this small market and I think prices are already quite competitive. When you see a particularly high price on an individual fish, it's usually because the supply of that quality of fish is very low. The best of anything always commands much higher than average prices. I have sold single angelfish for over $500 a piece. Nobody considers that I had twenty years of intensive breeding to come up with a few unique fish. Many would think I overcharged. I felt I was grossly underpaid for my effort, but that's the market for you.

[DonMD]

Why are discus so expensive?

They are the largest, most beautiful and gratifying fresh water tropical fish. The interact with their owners. They have personalities. And, did I mention, they are truly beautiful?

As for expensive, I suggest pricing koi . . . that should make you think again about the cost of discus.

Just my 2 cents.

[Harriett]

2FUNKIDS,
Here is how I see your thread: 1. Why do these fish cost so much and 2. How can I be in this hobby if they cost so much?

#1: There is always the 'what the market will bear" issue and it occurs here as in any other commodity.
New glitzy products costs more initially, prices change as the market becomes more flooded with the new prize, so if you have your heart set on a currently expensive strain, eventually it likely will be more moderately priced. Older, stable strains often cost significantly less than new strains, and are more hardy and forgiving of a newbies learning curve.
Your disdain regarding the price of adult fish may be tempered if you consider that to get a discus from baby to adult, it will take a year. In that year, if you know what you are doing to get the best potential out of the discus, you will be doing massive water changes every day or other day, you will be feeding expensive high protein meaty foods 4-8 x day, paying for water and electricity and meds and water conditioners.
you will have an outlay of equipement to light, filtration, heat. Someone recently broke it down and the overhead alone makes this on a fish by fish basis, pretty expensive--maybe $50-75.00 / fish, conservatively. If someone else not only does the outlay of cash, but spends a year working on the discus to get it to this size and health, and from primo stock which were expensive, they are going to want a reasonable return--this you will better understand if you choose to get into the hobby.
There is a fairly deep learning curve to be able to keep dsicus successfully, breeding aside, that takes a couple years, a few potentially expensive mistakes, and a lot of work. Expertise is worth something here.
Buying cheaper versions of the product you are interested in usually results in a poorer product [car or lawnmower or, discus!] and more headaches. After learning the hard way, you will hear a lot of folks vouching for certain sellers/breeders, whose prices may or may not be higher than some in the business will offer. BUt there is insurance in working with reputable sellers for fish and who back their businesses up with superb service and help when needed--they move the industry but they also help us all prosper in our hobby. MANY sellers do not do that, trust me. For the folks selling, I gotta tell you, it is hard to make a killing, though discus are pricey. --most make a modest income only from selling or breeding--they love discus, enjoy interacting with hobbyists, etc etc.
Generally what you pay for is what you get in that department--you could get a great deal on a cheap fish, but often they turn out to have poor health or endurance, or poor form or physical attributes when they age. So, after learning our chops on cheap discus, we usually go for the better quality and skip the headaches and heartaches.

#2: For me, it's always been about how do I get high quality discus for reasonable prices? I simply am not in the financial bracket to do it any other way. Never have been. But I love discus!! So here is how I have a lovely collection of discus that I enjoy tremendously: I buy as much equipment second hand as possible. I build tank cabinets and canopies myself when needed. I ask family or friends to wire up gizmos that are over my head. I look at the local fish club and craigslist ads if I need something. I initially bought [cheap] healthy local hobbyist raised juvenile fish. When I had a handle on what I was doing, I began to buy better quality juvenile fish. Youngsters are far cheaper than sub adults and adults and offer a world of experience to master. I have never purchased a discus over 3" in the 10 years I have been doing discus. I now try to buy 4-6 week old babies to raise myself, which cost less than 3" juvies, because my taste now runs too expensive for juvenile fish!
I make or buy discus food in bulk. If I buy frozen bloodworms, I order them by the case [25#]locally from a guy and he eats the shipping and charges me a little extra per pound. I get together with a friend to make beefheart for a few months at a time, we get what we need, and we sell the rest which pays for our own supply....and so on.
Shipping is EXPENSIVE. If I am going to buy shipped fish, I always contact other hobbyists in my area--I can usually get a couple folks to go in on an order, we break shipping costs into 1/2 or 1/3 per person, and that I can afford. I still try to buy locally if someone has something I want here. I often sell lesser favorite discus or plant offspring/cuttings from my planted tanks, and for a few years raised dwarf African cichlids in a 75 [which take little work and no brains--just flake food and a net and some fish in water and they breed] and sold locally which paid for a fair number of aquariums and some discus!

OK, enough from me, best of luck to you! I hope this helps.
Harriett

[Eddie]

I like Lamborghinis, not Hyundais.

[Harriett]

Yay, Eddie! LMAO. MEEEEE TOOOOOO.
Harriett