Heckle crosses?

[Eddie]

Oh man! These are my favorite fish!!! Did you create these Chinaman?

[Chinaman]

nope, got them when i was in germany... but sold them 6 months ago....

[ockyra215]

Those are very nice I would love to find a pair of those?

[erikc]

Thanks Eddie for posting that pic. Here's a few more I found on my pc

http://s961.photobucket.com/albums/a...urusauvage.jpg

http://s961.photobucket.com/albums/a...nt=Heckels.jpg

http://s961.photobucket.com/albums/a...ienHybride.jpg

http://s961.photobucket.com/albums/a...eetsauvage.jpg

[Eddie]

Very nice Eric! Looks like they were crossed with a RSG or Leopard. Thanks for adding the photos!


Take care,

Eddie

[ockyra215]

Thos are some very awesome looking crosses Love them!

[ockyra215]

And ofcourse the only guys with crosses live in Paris and Japan....

[darkknight87]

God, those are nice.

[erikc]

And ofcourse the only guys with crosses live in Paris and Japan....

Yup, Eddie and I are lucky there

Okay, on a more serious note, it was a one time offer I couldn't resist. They came from Vietnam and I've never seen them since for offer. I've seen smaller ones but none of them had the same potential.

[Eddie]

Yup, Eddie and I are lucky there

Okay, on a more serious note, it was a one time offer I couldn't resist. They came from Vietnam and I've never seen them since for offer. I've seen smaller ones but none of them had the same potential.

Interesting, I have been asked if mine is from Vietnam too. I guess they're called Vietnam Turqs (Heckel Cross) from what I was told.

Eddie

[Rod]

Heres one i kept years ago. About 5% in each spawn had the thicker central bar. Varying from ones like this to ones that were thicker on only a part of the bar. Some varieties of blue discus from the wild show these traits and according to Heiko Bleher have nothing to do with the heckel.....

[erikc]

Rod, nice picture, thanks for sharing. inetersting fact about only 5% of the spawn showing the central bar.

Its very true, you do see some brown or blues with thicker central bars and they come from regions of the Amazon where no Heckels are found. For example ther's a variety of the Rio Madera brown that has a strong resmblance to a Heckel but there are none in that area.

Maybe that those hybrid crosses we are seeing in this post have no relation whatsoever to hecekls, but just carry the gene with the thicker central bar ? Anyone want's to give theirs up for a full DNA analysis ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the only place where natural hybrids occur is in the lago Nhamunda. Some of the most stunning Heckels also come from there (damm, I'm going to have to update some pics of my heckels, I know, promises, promises ....).

Hmmm, lets see what the experts have to say ...

[Eddie]

Heres one i kept years ago. About 5% in each spawn had the thicker central bar. Varying from ones like this to ones that were thicker on only a part of the bar. Some varieties of blue discus from the wild show these traits and according to Heiko Bleher have nothing to do with the heckel.....

Nice fish Rod! I really like that fish. Thanks for adding the picture!

Eddie

[dalejordan]

Rod, nice picture, thanks for sharing. inetersting fact about only 5% of the spawn showing the central bar.

Its very true, you do see some brown or blues with thicker central bars and they come from regions of the Amazon where no Heckels are found. For example ther's a variety of the Rio Madera brown that has a strong resmblance to a Heckel but there are none in that area.

Maybe that those hybrid crosses we are seeing in this post have no relation whatsoever to hecekls, but just carry the gene with the thicker central bar ? Anyone want's to give theirs up for a full DNA analysis ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the only place where natural hybrids occur is in the lago Nhamunda. Some of the most stunning Heckels also come from there (damm, I'm going to have to update some pics of my heckels, I know, promises, promises ....).

Hmmm, lets see what the experts have to say ...

Hi Erik,

Just like in my article, most of the heckle crosses we find in the wild are divergent zones where populations of lets say ''blues" meet populations of "heckles". The Madeira ( mostly blue Discus) does meets the Canuma ( mostly heckle ) hence the crosses that I JUST posted on this thread. As discussed in my article, the Abacaxis ( mostly Heckle ) meets the Marie Marie ( mostly blue ) and the Nhumnda is the exact same thing.

The big problem we find with these crosses is that the heckle bar will quickly disappear , usually by F3 if the cross was originally F1. Schmidt Focke had one of the most incredible crosses as his "strain#4 or Discuscross" ( as seen in this picture ) I was lucky to get the offspring of this pair, but only about 10% had the bar and then nothing in the next generation. This is why we do not see any true heckle cross "strains" per say :-)

The best news is that of the Lago Solomon. As Rod said, there are fish that have this "5th" bar and it has nothing to do with heckles....lago Solomon is one of them !! Just until recently I never knew this fish existed until I had a long discussion with Oliver Lucanus of Below water. He assured me that the fish in this illusive area have a fixed "5th" bar and it will be retained in successive offspring. I can assure you the Japanese are aware of this as we see these fish being sold for a fortune on the Japanese market. Eddie is also very lucky as his fish are of a Solomon Red turquoise cross. Who knows.....this may be the first 'true' strain that would retain the fifth bar :-)

[erikc]

Hi Dale,

thanks for the for the information and your input into this forum,

I greatly admire people like you who go to the amazon to collect these amazing fish and I am always an avid reader of "experienced info", it is realy so hard to find in the discus world. Your input is definetely priceless and I am gratefull for your willingness to share this knowledge.

I must admit that I have always been fascinated by any discus with a "fith" bar. For some strange reason it has always appealed to me more than the other discus types, that's why I have always kept Heckels when I have a fish tank.

This is good news indeed for teh Lago Solomons. My crosses did not retain only their "fith" bar, but from what you have advanced, it makes sense. It's true that Eddie's Salomon crosses are full of potential, all the more exciting with what you have just said.

Looking forward to seeing the fish that you will produce (you wouldn't ship to France by any chance ?), thanks again.