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Thread: Trouble in Paradise

  1. #16
    Registered Member wgtaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by calihawker View Post
    Sorry to hear about the problems Bill but all the same great info for all of us to learn by. Glad it's cleared up for ya.
    Thanks Steve
    I remember capillaria being very common with discus and sure others will run into this, will do another treatment of levamisol tomorrow.
    OK buddy, this may have been a setback but we will be coming back strong....ha ha
    Good to hear from you, take care.

  2. #17
    Registered Member wgtaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Re-dosed the tank with levamisol yesterday to kill any new hatched capillaria. Not sure if levamisol actually kills nematode eggs so re-treated to be safe. The discus tolerate the 24 hour treatment very well and doesn't effect the bio filter so it was an easy choice.
    It is getting a little tedious, scoping poo everyday but all the discus look clean except one. The original one with the clear gel poo was still passing this clear gel poo and is loaded with eggs. I don't believe that one is eating anything yet. The rest are eating, including Whitey, the smallest. The levamisol appears to be working, so will continue another week.

    Mixing the 100 gram bottle of Vermisol with 100 ml of distilled water as Al suggested makes re-dosing very easy. I just take a syringe pull out 10 cc from the stock solution for the 80 gallon tank. Too easy. The 100 gram bottle should treat about 800 gallons so I even treated the tank next to the contest discus just as a precaution even though they looked fine.
    I haven't prophylactically treated discus in the past and have been very fortunate not running into problems but I I learned a valuable lesson here. I've since read this post #1 by Al in the disease section and plan to do additional treatments after the levamisol. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=21044
    Following that post would have prevented this problem. I have been up close watching this tank of albino's and have become really attached to these guys. They seem to have become my problem children and motivated me to research more. They will pull through this and I will be thrilled with them for sure.

    Because the one discus is passing more clear gel I considered using a stronger dose and thought of Eddie, drastic problems require drastic measures.
    Hey Eddie, if you read this check my math on this. If you use 1262 mg vermasol powder per 10 gallon that would equal the stock solution that Al recommended and the 100g bottle would treat about 800 gallons.
    This is a lot stronger dosage than you used. I haven't experienced the cloudy water and seems gentle on the discus. I also have a mg scale and would do it this way if I had to treat one time, one tank. Hope it works as well for you buddy.

    The vermasol powder has 7.5 grams of levamisol in 100 grams of powder, that's 7.5 percent medicine.
    13.34 mg vermasol powder x .075 = 1 mg/l (1 ppm) of levamisol
    13.34 x 37.9 liters = 505 mg vermisol powder = 1 mg/l in 10 gal
    505 mg x 2.5 ppm = 1262 mg vermasol powder = 2.5 mg/l in 10 gal

  3. #18
    Homesteader Eddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Bill,

    I use 38 mg/per gallon = 380 mg/per 10 gallons

    2 treatments 3weeks apart. Haven't seen anymore eggs but I may have been quick to catch them. I do random scoping of poos, feel like the great poo inspector! LOL



    Eddie
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    "If you ask for an opinion...don't get pissed when I give you mine."

  4. #19
    Registered Member wgtaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    Bill,

    I use 38 mg/per gallon = 380 mg/per 10 gallons

    2 treatments 3weeks apart. Haven't seen anymore eggs but I may have been quick to catch them. I do random scoping of poos, feel like the great poo inspector! LOL



    Eddie
    Hey thanks Eddie
    If you used 380 mg powder that's 380 x .075 = 28.8 mg of levamisole med.
    10 gal equal 37.9 liters. That would give you 28.8mg levamisole / 37.9 liters = .76 mg/l (.76 ppm).
    Im glad that worked for you, that makes me feel a bit more comfortable in getting rid of this capillaria. I can appreciate the great poo inspector description, not fun but have to do it.
    The one that had the clear poo is starting to show interest in food again.
    Thanks for the help buddy

  5. #20
    Registered Member Chester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Bill,

    Sent you an email with the info you requested.

    Good luck.

    Cheers

    Chester

  6. #21
    Registered Member wgtaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Thanks Chester

    Very kind of you to share.

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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Bill,
    I have been looking for a doc like this, thank you for sharing!!!!
    Jeff

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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Hi Bill

    Is everyone recovered as yet, even the clear pooper? I hope so.

    Very beautiful fish. A different look to some of the other contestant's.
    Cheers
    Robyn

  9. #24
    Registered Member wgtaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by TankWatcher View Post
    Hi Bill

    Is everyone recovered as yet, even the clear pooper? I hope so.

    Very beautiful fish. A different look to some of the other contestant's.
    Hi Robyn,
    Thanks for asking, they are slowly coming around and regaining appetite. All their fins are erect and look good. I have a second discus passing dead worms loaded with eggs tonight.
    This poo looks different and is almost an opaque white but with the same capillaria eggs. The levamisol seems to be working and will treat at least one more time. This will be the third treatment at one week intervals. They seem to easily pass the worms however I added epsom salts, one teaspoon per ten gallons when I change water to remove the levamisol, just to be sure. Strange, they all have seemed to be affected differently, some show very little signs at all. Fortunately this seems to be the only tank that has capillaria and been careful to keep it from spreading.
    By the way they are acting I'm sure they will recover completely. It's taking some time but is sure worth the effort. Getting pretty attached to these guys.



    Quote Originally Posted by 05 LL Stang View Post
    Bill,
    I have been looking for a doc like this, thank you for sharing!!!!
    Jeff
    Thanks Jeff, glad it was of help.

  10. #25
    Registered Member TankWatcher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Good to hear things are improving. Someone, might have been Paul (not sure) once told me that the higher discus temps speed up the life cycle of the parasites. So he recommended to me that a shorter interval might be better between treatments. You are right that the levamisol doesn't kill the eggs, so you have to try to get them asap after hatching, otherwise the cycle repeats itself.
    Cheers
    Robyn

  11. #26
    Registered Member wgtaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by TankWatcher View Post
    Good to hear things are improving. Someone, might have been Paul (not sure) once told me that the higher discus temps speed up the life cycle of the parasites. So he recommended to me that a shorter interval might be better between treatments. You are right that the levamisol doesn't kill the eggs, so you have to try to get them asap after hatching, otherwise the cycle repeats itself.
    You bet, warmer temperature can accelerate capillaria hatching cycle. The last dose has to be done after all the eggs have hatched but before the capillaria become mature adults. I found info on the web that there are multiple species of capillaria and each have different length life cycles. I haven't been able to find any definitive info to go by. 3 weeks between treatments might work but then need to double check with a microscope.
    I gave mine one extra treatment just to get the earlier hatching nutrient robbing little buggers out of their gut. Might have helped them by an extra week but I know it helped me.

  12. #27
    Registered Member wgtaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Final Update On Trouble In Paradise
    Success

    It's been raining every day for almost two weeks, today the sun came out, life is good.
    First I would like to thank Al brewmaster. A while back Al let me know where I could locate levamisol and the dosing instructions for my wild discus. When this problem arose with the contest discus I was fortunate to have the levamisol on hand. So, thanks Al.
    I had been struggling with their lack of appetite for a while until I finally diagnosed the problem with capillaria and treated with levamosol.
    The levamisol worked well because it could be dosed in the water and didn't have to be fed. My contest discus appetites had become worse over time and feeding worm medicine would not have worked as well and maybe not at all with at least one or two.
    At times I thought about increasing the dose or trying other things but stayed with treating them at 2.5ppm once a week for three treatments. Found this dosing recommendation only one place on the web, seems to have worked well.
    I added epsom salt, one teaspoon per 10 gal for four hours and a huge water change to clean them out before worming. Twenty four hours later another large water change and clean tank good and epsom salt for the day.
    Today all the contest discus are right up front and top of the tank begging for food again. Sure is a nice sight to see.

    I don't use a prefilter and when I turned the filter off there was lots of junk that would flow out of the strainer. Great place to collect to check under the microscope.
    Today absolutely nothing is collecting in the filter strainer, it stays clean and the bottom of the tank is staying clean. Not a particle of food lasts.


    Now whenever I walk by they all are up top, up front, right under the light.


    I think they all will be getting more growth again.


    Their color has picked back up again.


    and the red iris has improved in all of them.


    Whitey is not white anymore and has the biggest appetite of all.


    Next week I'll get back to the normal updates.

    Bill

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    Registered Member kaceyo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    That's great Bill. They sure don't look like they've been sick recently.
    Kacey

  14. #29
    Registered Member wgtaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Quote Originally Posted by kaceyo View Post
    That's great Bill. They sure don't look like they've been sick recently.
    Thanks Kacey
    They never looked really bad mainly poor appetites and getting worse and lack of activity. There has been a remarkable turn around.

  15. #30
    Moderator Team Chad Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in Paradise

    Bill,

    Fantasitc recovery thread here my friend! I'm glad to hear that everything is about back to normal. You've taken fantastic care of these guys and gals!

    Best wishes!
    Chad Hughes

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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