What makes Discus grow the biggest the fastest?

[CammieTime]

What is the best method to get 2.5" discuss to 6" or greater as fast as possible?

~Does it depend more on the number of times a day they are fed?
~Or is the number of water changes they receive a day the most important?
~Or does it depend on the content and quality of the food?
~Or the number of fish in the tank and it's size?

[Chad Hughes]

What is the best method to get 2.5" discuss to 6" or greater as fast as possible?

~Does it depend more on the number of times a day they are fed?
* Three times daily with excellent quality fortified beefheart will get great growth!
~Or is the number of water changes they receive a day the most important?
* Consistent water changes are best... Really depends on yur setup here.
~Or does it depend on the content and quality of the food?
* I would say this is one of the most, if not THE most, important aspect of raising health, large discus.
~Or the number of fish in the tank and it's size?

* Size of the tank is pretty important. The 10 gal per discus rule is a pretty good one to follow.

Lastly, stock... Good stock to start with is extremely important!

Best wishes!

[mjs020294]

Steroids.

[dwilder]

What is the best method to get 2.5" discuss to 6" or greater as fast as possible?

~Does it depend more on the number of times a day they are fed?
~Or is the number of water changes they receive a day the most important?
~Or does it depend on the content and quality of the food?
~Or the number of fish in the tank and it's size?

all of the above

[hedut]

alot WC and a lot feed time

[Eddie]

Healthy stock, good foods and good water.

[Jhhnn]

What is the best method to get 2.5" discuss to 6" or greater as fast as possible?

~Does it depend more on the number of times a day they are fed?
~Or is the number of water changes they receive a day the most important?
~Or does it depend on the content and quality of the food?
~Or the number of fish in the tank and it's size?

I'm mostly with Chad.

In my limited experience, feeding 3 times a day is good. It's very important that the quantity of food is large enough each time so that the more aggressive feeders don't get it all. You want fat bellies on all the fish when the food is gone. If it takes 'em 20-30 minutes to eat it all, that's OK. I vary the diet, using beefheart, mysis, spirulina brineshrimp, seafood mix and frozen bloodworms. My discus look at me like I'm an idiot when I offer flakes or pellets... it might be possible to overfeed using dry foods, causing bloat- dunno... otherwise, they just eat 'til they're stuffed and quit...

I observe the 1 fish per 10 gal rule, or close to it (8 fish in a barebottom 75, for example) and change at least half the water daily. Put some money up front to create a water changing system that's right for you, that makes it quick and easy. Properly executed, water changes will greatly benefit your fish- it's not possible, imho, to change too much water.

Good stock that's been properly reared is extremely important- you want nice fat youngsters, not skinny, not with eyes that are too big for their bodies. If they're already stunted when you get 'em, they'll never get very big... no matter how well you treat 'em...

Buy at least 6 of the largest fish you can reasonably afford, from one of our sponsors. Go with something basic and hardy- Turqs, Blue Diamonds, basic snakeskins, Alenquers, like that.

I've dealt with Kenny Cheung twice, and can't recommend him highly enough. No regrets there.

[David Rose]

I agree with Chad and if the budget allows, you could always use some quality supplements:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=77769

Best of luck with your discus!

[Scribbles]

Start with healthy high quality stock, feed them well, and keep the water clean and stable.

Chris

[Keith Perkins]

One other thing that will help is spreading the feeding times as much as you reasonably can. Fish that are feed at 8am, 3pm and 10pm will grow faster than those feed at 9am, 3pm and 9pm.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

In order of importance:

1. water quality
2. food quality
3. food quantity
4. disease/stress
5. competition

Ideal situation is to mantain absolute perfect water quality 24/7 via powerful filtration and frequent water changes. Feed a high quality food that has proper levels of fat and protein (most lack enough fat for fast growing fry). Be sure to feed to satiation (till they're absolutely full). Minimize any stressors (water quality and disease being primary). IMO, an overstocked tank will grow fish better quality/faster than one moderately stocked....more fish, more competition, more food they eat (overstocked while still maintaining water quality is key).

Follow the above and you'll have fat, fast growing, healthy fish (not just discus, but all fish).

-Ryan

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

One other thing that will help is spreading the feeding times as much as you reasonably can. Fish that are feed at 8am, 3pm and 10pm will grow faster than those feed at 9am, 3pm and 9pm.

Ditto....spreading the feeding out allows for maximum retention time within the gut. Some keepers are intent on feeding 10+ times per day. It doesnt work like that. An animal can only absorb so much in a day. By cramming them full of food like that 24/7 it becomes a factory line....constantly moving with little time for absorption. What people dont realize is that it takes time for the body to break down certain amino acids and fats so that they can use them properly. Feed them too often and you arent allowing your fish to absorb/break down certain nutrients in the food....which will result in a lack of certain amino acids and/or fats. Sure they may grow quicker initially, but there will be a retardation of growth after a while due to the lack of certain nutrients not being absorbed/broken down while in the gut.

This can also explain why discus tend to slow down in their rapid growth once they hit the 3-3.5" mark...their body changes and their requirements for amino acids and/or fats (among other things) arent being met in sufficient quantities. When young their bodies may require tons of lysine, but minimal methionine (for example)....they grow quick because the food you feed provides what they need. But once they hit a certain age, their need for the lysine lessens and maybe the need for methionine increases. Well, keep feeding the same food and you'll end up with a bunch of incomplete amino acid chains that are useless along with a lot of wasted lysine (resulting in slower growth). Once you notice a slow down in the growth of your fish, try changing their diet a bit....use different ingredients in your BH mix, or try feeding them more of certain dry feeds. Experiment and see what works best. When you figure it out let me know, lol.

-Ryan

[Jhhnn]

Dunno that fish growth actually slows down as the get past 3"- more like our perception of it is different. Thinking it over, it seems to me that being round, discus growth appears to slow as they're getting bigger because it's a square function, area = Pi R squared. and they're getting thicker, too. I suspect that if we were to actually weigh the fish on, say, a weekly basis, we'd see that they're still gaining weight strictly as a function of nutrient absorption from their food. That's really a very inefficient process, in my limited experience, requiring several grams of food to achieve a single gram of weight gain...

I also think there's some supposition in the idea that fish won't absorb nutrients properly if fed too many times per day, although I'm sure there's a point of diminished returns, maybe even a point where the fish actually eat less when fed more often because they never really get hungry.

My own discus have grown extremely well when fed to satiation 3 times a day- 7:30AM, 5:30-6:00PM, again at 9:30-10:00PM. With younger growing fish, I also feed them about midday on weekends when I can. I save the messiest food, seafood mix, for the last feeding of the day, make sure there's plenty and plenty of time to eat it, because I change their water right after that, anyway. Any extra doesn't lay around in the tank for long.

I have no recent experience with fish smaller than ~3-1/2", so it may be different with them, dunno.

It's a rare occasion when I don't do the usual 50%+ daily water change. We haven't gone anywhere overnight in quite awhile, and if we're out late or whatever, I still siphon up the poop before going to bed...

[GlennR]

Nobody has mentioned "temperature" being a factor. I know that higher temps increase metabolism. How does it affect grow rates?

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Dunno that fish growth actually slows down as the get past 3"- more like our perception of it is different. Thinking it over, it seems to me that being round, discus growth appears to slow as they're getting bigger because it's a square function, area = Pi R squared. and they're getting thicker, too. I suspect that if we were to actually weigh the fish on, say, a weekly basis, we'd see that they're still gaining weight strictly as a function of nutrient absorption from their food. That's really a very inefficient process, in my limited experience, requiring several grams of food to achieve a single gram of weight gain...

I also think there's some supposition in the idea that fish won't absorb nutrients properly if fed too many times per day, although I'm sure there's a point of diminished returns, maybe even a point where the fish actually eat less when fed more often because they never really get hungry.

My own discus have grown extremely well when fed to satiation 3 times a day- 7:30AM, 5:30-6:00PM, again at 9:30-10:00PM. With younger growing fish, I also feed them about midday on weekends when I can. I save the messiest food, seafood mix, for the last feeding of the day, make sure there's plenty and plenty of time to eat it, because I change their water right after that, anyway. Any extra doesn't lay around in the tank for long.

I have no recent experience with fish smaller than ~3-1/2", so it may be different with them, dunno.

It's a rare occasion when I don't do the usual 50%+ daily water change. We haven't gone anywhere overnight in quite awhile, and if we're out late or whatever, I still siphon up the poop before going to bed...

You could very well be right as the weight/thickness does indeed increase more so once they reach that size/age range. Unfortunately there are so many variables between hobbyists growth rates (food, water quality, etc) that it may be a never ending question. And yes, weighing them weekly is an excellent way to judge growth and to determine the Feed Conversion Ratio (FCR). Determining a FCR is an excellent way to see how well your fish grow on a certain diet at a given age. Once you find a baseline, you tweak it and get the FCR as close to 1:1 as possible.....1:1 is theoretically impossible, but fish like catfish or tilapia are to the point now in nutritional research that they are getting FCR's well below 2:1 (2lb fed, 1lb gain). Discus I would imagine are no where near that, possibly nearing double digits.

FCR's are extremely important to breeders in specific as FCR's are simply another word for profit. The worse the FCR, the lower the profit margin is (more feed required). If you are a good breeder you'll establish a baseline FCR and weight for each given age/size....you can use that as a benchmark for all the fry being raised. Check the weight weekly and adjust your feeding regimine as needed (keep them on track and growing in a more linear pattern). It will also make predictions of when fry are available for sale easier as well. Never hurts to know too much about pretty much all aspects of fish growth to determine how well they truely are doing. Matter of fact, if you are really good and have a long recorded history of tracking FCR's and weight you can even tell when a possible disease issue is getting ready to pop up....just look for a dip in growth compared to where your records show they should be at.

-Ryan