suprise death

[SHAD0W]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

I woke up this morning to find that my bristlenosed pleco had died during the night. This worries me greatly as he was in the community tank with my discus! A couple of days ago when the filter randomly stopped working, when i put it all back together it spewed out lots of nasties that it should have been cleaning onto the gravel, the water was so murkey that I decided to leave it to clear and do the gravel siphoning in the morning. By then it had all gone and my pleco had a really bloated stomach, so much so that he could hardly suck the glass because his mouth couldn't reach around his girth. He was more active after this though, saw him alot more.. probably because he wouldn't fit in his hidey hole! That was 3 days ago and now he's dead.



2. Symptoms

Seriously bloated stomach and his anus was red.



3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

None




Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

90 litres, 5 years, 4x Discus between 2 - 4inches, 1x 8inch black ghost knife fish, 2x 5inch clown loach,


5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

10% weekly, 5 years, gravel, don't age my water.


6 Parameters and water source;

- temp 80℃

- ph 6.8

- nitrite reading 0ppm

Unfortunatly my other test kits have just ran out - just when I need them the most! Will buy some more tomorow.

I use water streight from the tap. Surely if the water was the problem the discus would have died first being the most "sensitive" fish?

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

2 discus added 1 week ago. No problems with them.



The other fish had started to eat the dead pleco by the look of it when I woke up. Can they contract an illness by eating an infected fish?

None of the other fish seem to have any other symptoms and seem to be in good health. I am really sad to see this pleco go as it was one of the first fish I ever owned I'd hate to see the rest of them go the same way!

[Ardan]

I would increase wc's and test ammonia and nitrite often.
hth
Ardan

[Chester]

Nothing to panic about just yet.

But >

If I was in your shoes, it would be time for a tooth brush class cleaning. Once you refill the tank add one heaping teaspoon of non iodized salt per 5 gallons and watch very closely.

Yes, Fish can get sick by feeding on the carcus of the dead. Something you want to avoid.

Cheers

Chester

[SHAD0W]

Arden.. that doesn't help.

I don't understand what you mean chester. What illness did my fish contract? What would the salt do to help if the other fish are fine?

[Chester]

Ok,

Your Filter probaly release some nasty pathogen you poor plecco sucked up.

Ardan is suggesting some simple rudimentry test to make sure your filter system is working correctly. Not a bad idea to put your mind at rest.

Salt- It a well know fact that some fresh water pathogens wont flourish in a saline environment. So consider salt as a premptive prophylactic strike to help amke sure nothing more gets out of hand. Salt will also increase the comfort level of your fish so they have more energy for there immune system to fight off a bug, if they did indeed ingest one.

This is a tactic used to head trouble off at the pass so to speak.

Cheers

Chester

[Chester]

Further>

Im not suggesting your fish have contracted anything yet. You have not stated your Discus are sick.

The actions we prescribe here are simlpy preventative just in case.


Cheers

Chester

[SHAD0W]

Sorry if I came across as rude, I know you're only trying to help but I'm in a bit of a panic.

My discus and all the other fish are healthy looking, eating as usual and swimming around happily. The fish was bloated for a good 3 days before death and these guys are fine.. When I saw he was bloated I thought that maybe he ate all the nasties the filter pumped out as I didn't need to syphon the gravel the next day and he over indulged? Can fish die of over feeding?

[Chester]

Yes I have seen some brain dead fish die from over eating

But lets assume that he died of abdominal dropsy. This places you on the correct side of caution.

So, you could have a nasty pathogen in your tank. Remember, I said could.

So you can choose one of two actions.

1) Do nothing. (wouldnt be my choice)

2) Do a deep clean on the tank and filter and add salt to make it hard for this pathogen to invade your health fish. Crank up to air too. Bad bactieria dont like O2. (My choice - Surprise!)

Its a safety precaution only. An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I didnt sense Rude. But i did sense panic. Keep cool man. You got this thing REAL early. Very good. Early makes all the difference in the world.

Consider an in tank UV system on a timer run for 12 hours per day.

Poodles

Chester

[Chester]

Further>

House Keeping.

Sounds like your filter barfed up some nasty stuff.

Rinse your filter weekly in non chlorinated water, and if you must have gravel, do a good detailed vacuum each week.

A clean house goes a long way towards that once of prevention thing.

Poodles


Chester

[SHAD0W]

Thanks, my appologies again. I'll water test tomorow as soon as I'm home from Uni and post the results. What type of salt would be best? Will salt not harm the fish? Again though, if something was wrong wouldn't the discus have died first? Especially since the pellets I feed them sink to the bottom where most the filth was?

The air is on all the time, I never turn it off.

[Chester]

Thanks, my appologies again. I'll water test tomorow as soon as I'm home from Uni and post the results. What type of salt would be best? Will salt not harm the fish? Again though, if something was wrong wouldn't the discus have died first? Especially since the pellets I feed them sink to the bottom where most the filth was?

No worries mate

Get salt from your local fish store. Do not use table salt. it has iodine in it.
Do not use salt intended for a salt water tanks either. Get non iodized salt at the fish store. The store keep should help you out.

We have assumed your plecco died of ingesting a bad bacteria. Once in your plecco it multiplied and killed the fish. The other fish ate the plecco, releasing more of this bactieria into the water. So what we want to is minimize the risk of the discus getting this bacteria. Lets clean up the tank, add salt and make it an environment that not friendly to bad bacteria. This is a proactive stance I strongly urge you to follow. Clean the tank now. Not tomorrow. Add aquarium salt asap. Sorry i dont know any other way to explain this to you. This is like getting a flue shot. You dont have the flue, and you dont want it, so you get a shot to protect yourself.

Can you turn up the level of the air so the tank is getting more??

Cheers

Chester

[ifixoldhouses]

I had a BN up and die the other day as well, 2nd one I've had I just found dead. I'm going to quit buying them, I couldn't tell he did anything to help anyway.

[SHAD0W]

Right, I've done everything you said. Thank you so much for your help! I'll post back in a couple of days and let you know how everything is working out.

In other news, the common pleco in my other fish tank has died, along with my sister's goldfish in her bowl? Checked the water on both fish tanks and they are both fine? Very confused.

[Ardan]

Hi,
Plecos can be sensitive to changes in ammonia and nitrite. Since the filter was disturbed, I would check those parameters to make sure the filter is working well.
It could be the pleco ingested some bad bacteria.
Increasing wc's after a filter problem is always a good step to take to keep things clean. If the water was murky, there is a good chance that bad bacteria could have been ingested by any fish.
Keep an eye on the fish, if they are eating and swimming well, that is a great sign

hth
Ardan

[Chester]

I recently wrote an article here on eliminating Capillaria once and for all. Dig in the forum and you will find it. Nevermind. Heres the link.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=77832

Odd Plecco deaths can be a distant early warning towards a Capillaria outbreak.

Thats not what happend to this gents fish since is blew up with abdominal dropsy, But if your plecco dies and it looks a wee bit thin, I'd be doing some stool wet mounts looking for cap eggs.

Bill Taylor recently did this and took some pictures of his findings. Bill did a great job at making the diagnosis and getting the correct treatment underway.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=77586

Read, Learn and Enjoy.

Cheers

Chester