Is this whirling disease?

[gwrace]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

We recently received 12 1 inch discus from a breeder on Simply. They have been doing great for the last two weeks. Until yesterday when one started spinning at high speed followed by mad dashes into the glass tank wall. I thought it might be an isolated incident but my wife just called and a second fish is exhibiting the same behavior and appears to be dead. We lost the first one yesterday. Could this be whirling disease? The breeder said he never uses Tubiflex worms. Food consists of Tetra Bits, Mals FDBW worms and Reef Flakes. I've had my wife unplug the heater and HOB filter until I can see if were getting some stray voltage into the tank. Sponge filter is still running.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Fish starts chasing it's tail at high speed followed by mad dashes around the tank into the glass usually followed by staying at the top of the tank. Color seems to go a little darker than usual. After a few of these mad dashes the fish fall to the bottom of the tank gasping and usually die. No other visible signs of problems. Fish were perfect until yesterday.

3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

I had my wife add salt to the tank at the rate of 2 Tbsp per 10 gallons.
Just started this a few minutes ago.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

1 year old 29 gallon tank with 10 1 inch discus. Used to be 12.

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

I do a siphon every day and a 90% water change every other day. They are in a BB 29 gallon tank with AQ HOB and sponge filters. 83.5 degree water has zero ammonia, nitrites, and about 5-10 Nitrates. Tanks is fully cycled. Water is soft with PH about 7.8.

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __83.5___

- ph __7.8___

- ammonia reading _0___

- nitrite reading ___0_

- nitrate reading _5-10___

- well water __yes__

- municipal water ____

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

No

[brewmaster15]

I do a siphon every day and a 90% water change every other day. They are in a BB 29 gallon tank with AQ HOB and sponge filters. 83.5 degree water has zero ammonia, nitrites, and about 5-10 Nitrates. Tanks is fully cycled. Water is soft with PH about 7.8.

David,
are you aging your water? Do you see alot of air bubbles on the sponges and tank walls after a wc?

-al

[gwrace]

Al

Water is aged and I don't see any bubbles after changes. PH is stable at 7.6-7.8 in all tanks and water storage tank.

[kaceyo]

I'd suggest plugging your heater back in as that can cause big problems if the temp is rising and falling constantly. Same with the filter. You will kill the bacteria in a very short amount of time if it's left off with water in it. Drain the filter and refill it with clean tank water before restarting.
Generaly it's not a good idea to start shutting down the life support when symptoms crop up.
Are you basing the water parameters on what it's been or have you re-tested since the problems started?

[Eddie]

How did any of the filters get cycled? Were there fish in the tank before and you are using the same filters?


Just read your PM now, you mentioned your water is soft. Does your water go through a whole house water softener?

Eddie

[gwrace]

I'd suggest plugging your heater back in as that can cause big problems if the temp is rising and falling constantly. Same with the filter. You will kill the bacteria in a very short amount of time if it's left off with water in it. Drain the filter and refill it with clean tank water before restarting.
Generaly it's not a good idea to start shutting down the life support when symptoms crop up.
Are you basing the water parameters on what it's been or have you re-tested since the problems started?

The room we have the tank in stays about 82 degrees. With the heater I had it at 83.5. I also left a cycled sponge filter running. After I got home tonight I started checking for stray voltages. Ironically the only one of my four tanks that had the problem was the oldest one. About 15VAC was detected. It turned out to be a bad Marineland Stealth Heater. I replaced the heater and all is good. The juvi tank appears to be fine for the voltage check.

We decided to try a treatment with a small dose of salt and Life Bearer. We are seeing improvements in the remaining 10 fish. I'll do a water change tomorrow and retreat a couple more times over a 5-6 day period.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

[gwrace]

How did any of the filters get cycled? Were there fish in the tank before and you are using the same filters?


Just read your PM now, you mentioned your water is soft. Does your water go through a whole house water softener?

Eddie

Our well water is very hard and high in alkalinity. Water is pumped and stored in a above ground 2500 gallon tank. We then filter the water via a whole house filter and soften with a water softener that is also designed to remove high levels of metals and rust. Prior to adding any water to my tanks I also treat the water with Amquel + and Novaqua +. This has worked well for us for several years. PH is stable at 7.6-7.8.

The tank was up and running for a couple of months before fish were added. (fishless cycle). It was also a brand new tank and all fish came from the same source and are quarantined.

[Eddie]

Our well water is very hard and high in alkalinity. Water is pumped and stored in a above ground 2500 gallon tank. We then filter the water via a whole house filter and soften with a water softener that is also designed to remove high levels of metals and rust. Prior to adding any water to my tanks I also treat the water with Amquel + and Novaqua +. This has worked well for us for several years. PH is stable at 7.6-7.8.

The tank was up and running for a couple of months before fish were added. (fishless cycle). It was also a brand new tank and all fish came from the same source and are quarantined.

Have you keeping discus for several years, or other fish?

I'm wondering if the water softener is the culprit, depending on how the water is being softened. What brand/type of water softener do you use.

Eddie

[lkc]

You probably are not dealing with Whirling Disease.
If so, your fish would show signs of spinal deformations, together with twisting and whirling when swimming, then most probably death. Some fish do live thru it but are deformed for the rest of their lives.

Whirling disease is HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS and all fish need to be euthanized. In fact, you pretty much have to throw the whole tank out and start over.

You have some kind of water problem, just have to figure out what it is. One of my discus does the same thing periodically, he just wants to get his water change at 4 pm instead of 7 pm and that's how he lets me know.

[gwrace]

We are finishing up the first round of salt and Life Bearer treatments today. All the fish "so far" seem back to normal and are eating and swimming normally. Colors are back to normal. I'll do a small water change tonight and double check all water parameters. We plan to repeat the treatment at least a couple more times over the next couple of weeks.

What's puzzling about all of this is that all my tanks receive the same water. I have discus in both of my 75 gallon display tanks and they are normal and growing like crazy. It was only the 12 small 1 inch juvies in the 29 gallon QT tank that displayed this behavior. I'm now down to 10.

Thanks all for the kind assistance.

[gwrace]

Have you keeping discus for several years, or other fish?

I'm wondering if the water softener is the culprit, depending on how the water is being softened. What brand/type of water softener do you use.

Eddie

Eddie

Here is a link to the brand of softener currently in use. If you know of any issues please let me know. It's an automatic "on demand" system.

http://www.ohiopurewater.com/shop/cu...me.php?cat=178

[Eddie]

Eddie

Here is a link to the brand of softener currently in use. If you know of any issues please let me know. It's an automatic "on demand" system.

http://www.ohiopurewater.com/shop/cu...me.php?cat=178

We are finishing up the first round of salt and Life Bearer treatments today. All the fish "so far" seem back to normal and are eating and swimming normally. Colors are back to normal. I'll do a small water change tonight and double check all water parameters. We plan to repeat the treatment at least a couple more times over the next couple of weeks.

What's puzzling about all of this is that all my tanks receive the same water. I have discus in both of my 75 gallon display tanks and they are normal and growing like crazy. It was only the 12 small 1 inch juvies in the 29 gallon QT tank that displayed this behavior. I'm now down to 10.

Thanks all for the kind assistance.

If treatment with trichlorfon (life bearer) is helping, then its definitely parasite. You dont need to use salt with Life Bearer.

1 inch fry are very small so they make easy targets for bugs, just wondering how they got them.

Eddie