!!HELP!! - Water Testing 2 PPM Ammonia

[mcishaque]

Anyone using API ammonia test kit (the 2 bottle, 8 drops per 5lm of water) AND PRIME ? If so, maybe someone can chime in and help me make some sense out of this nonsense below please ?


Here's my story:
- tap water tests slight ammonia (.2 ppm) w/ api kit
- I put a drop of PRIME into 5mm of tap water, and re-test; result = 0 ammonia

That being said,
- I take out 50% water out of tank
- add 2 capfuls of prime per 50 gallons of water and fill aquarium back up
- I test aquarium 20 minis AFTER water change w/ API test kit, and ammonia reads .02 ppm

** this leads me to scratch my head and go "HUH ?" Maybe the .2 ppm I'm readhing is NH4+ and NH3... But read on.

So I retest aquarium water the morning after water change w/ same API test kit, and the water reads 2.0 ppm ammonia. I almost freak. But realize fishes show no signs of stress, and are eating and chasing each other around in their usual pigs w/ fins style. But to be sure, I drop another capful of prime in. I re-test that night, and it still reads 2.0 PPM. I'm worried, but not freaked out enough to do a 100% water change, since fishes are acting fine. I also test for NO2 and NO3, both below 5ppm.

I retest next morning: 2.0 ppm ammonia, less than 5ppm NO2, NO3.

AQUARIUM IS ESTABLISTED, AND EHEIM FILTERS ARE OVER 2 YRS OLD. Biological media was not touched during water change.

So I go hit a few LFSs, but none of them carry the Seachem ammonia multi test kit (that's supposed to be able to distinguish between NH3 and NH4+). But they have the Seachem ammo alert thingie (black rectangular plastic thingiemagigie w/ a circular color bar). I get a couple of those and put them in my tank. After about 8 hours, they show 0 ppm ammonia.

After 3 days of 2.0 ppm ammo w/ API test kit, they should all be dead or sideways. But since they are all happy go lucky, my theory = API ammo test is reading NH4+, and giving false readings.

But here's where it does not make sense:

#1) I test tap water after adding prime, and it reads 0 pmm ammo
#2) I test aquarium water after 50% WC w/ prime added, and it reads .2 ppm
#3) next day, SAME water reads 2.0 ppm ammo on an established tank, no additional prime added; why did the false ammo reading go up ?

LFS workers were no help - they were a bunch of **ahem** idiots (sorry, no better/kinder way to put it while preserving the accuracy of the statement).

Can someone smarter than I please make some sense out of this nonsense for me ? Thanks much in advance.

P.S. I already ordered 3 of the Seachem Ammo Multi Test thingies off al's. And in case anyone needs to know : Austin, TX here.

[pcsb23]

... I also test for NO2 and NO3, both below 5ppm.

I retest next morning: 2.0 ppm ammonia, less than 5ppm NO2, NO3.

I can't help you with the API kit & Prime as I don't use either of them.

However if you are seeing nitrite - NO2 - then you do have a problem. NO3 @ 5ppm is not an issue for the fish but NO2 should read 0, even low amounts are not good.

[nc0gnet0]

It can either be one of two things.

1) Your test kit is old, I recomend another API test kit to cross reference. if that gives you the same reading them my friend, see # 2

2) somethig has happened to your filter. it may be plugged, or for whatever reason you killed your bio (or set it back significantly)

Now this being said, there are a couple of inconsistancys in your post.

1) You cannot possibly read a .02 level of ammonia with a tube test kit. Was this a typo?

2) If you showed signs of ammonia, adding prime will not remove it, it binds with it making it non-toxic to your fish but will still show up on the test.

There is almost noway your test kit could be reading anything but ammonia, the reagents used are completely different and even a different color (for instance the reagent used for nitrates starts of blue)

[mcishaque]

It can either be one of two things.

1) Your test kit is old, I recomend another API test kit to cross reference. if that gives you the same reading them my friend, see # 2
Good suggestion; I bought a 2nd API kit; same readings.

2) somethig has happened to your filter. it may be plugged, or for whatever reason you killed your bio (or set it back significantly)
Checked plugged theory already - not plugged. As a precaution, also put in suggested does of Tera SAFE Start (bacteria) a few days ago.
Now this being said, there are a couple of inconsistancys in your post.

1) You cannot possibly read a .02 level of ammonia with a tube test kit. Was this a typo?
Yes - typo. Meant .2

2) If you showed signs of ammonia, adding prime will not remove it, it binds with it making it non-toxic to your fish but will still show up on the test.

There is almost noway your test kit could be reading anything but ammonia, the reagents used are completely different and even a different color (for instance the reagent used for nitrates starts of blue)

Is this "bind" permanent, or does it get released back to NH3 after X amount of hours ?

If I have any "good" bacteria left, I should start to see NO2 and NO3 going up after a period of time as NH3/NH4+ get converted - correct ? (my typical NO2 reading is 0, NO3 about 5ppm; but since reading high NH3/NH4+, I'm seeing traces of NO2)

P.S. I doubt this has anything to do w/ it, but I've always put in a tsp of PURE baking soda per very 40G of water to raise KH and help keep PH stable every WC. Thought I'd mention that, just in case anyone has any theories...

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP GOOD PPL OF SD !!

[kaceyo]

I don't know what to make of your ammonia test results, other than to say it sounds like your bio-filter took a hit somehow, and will need to recycle.
If you look at the directions on the bottle of Prime, it will give you the ammount of ammonia that each dose will detoxify. It will say something like "one standard dose (1 cap-full) detoxifies (or removes) 0.6ppm ammonia in 50gals tank water". Use that equation to figure out how much Prime you need to detox 2ppm ammonia in your system.
In my example it would take just over 3 capfulls Prime to detox all the ammonia in 50 gals tank water.
This way your fish will not be harmed by the ammonia.
Also, if you're getting Nitrite readings at all, add 1 tbsp table salt per 10gals to help detox the nitrite.

Kacey

[mcishaque]

My thoughts EXACTLY.

So I took a 1 gallon sample of water from the tank, and applied the approximate amount of prime to the gallon and re-tested w/ the API kit.

Guess what ?

Still reads 2 ppm ammo.

@#$#@@!!!!!

I'm REALLY stumped.

UPS tracking says that the Seachem ammo kit will arrive tomorrow. That sould help.

But I am out of town for the weekend. And there lies my delimma. Do I do a WC Friday evening before I head out of town, or do I leave it be (especially considering that I added the Tetra SAFE start Monday, and more than one person has suggested bio-filter hit).... ???

[nc0gnet0]

My thoughts EXACTLY.

So I took a 1 gallon sample of water from the tank, and applied the approximate amount of prime to the gallon and re-tested w/ the API kit.

Guess what ?

Still reads 2 ppm ammo.

As well it should. Prime DOES NOT remove ammonia. It detoxifys it. It binds to the ammonia making it unharmfull to your fish. It is still available to your bio-filter and will be broken down to nitrite then nitrate. You will still test positive for ammonia with the API test kit. The seachem kit you have on order uses a different reagent, but that test has issues as well.

If you purchased a 2nd kit and it still reads the same you nuked your filters bio somehow. Was it left off for a period of time? Did you recently clean it or add anything unusual to your tank?

[kaceyo]

As well it should. Prime DOES NOT remove ammonia. It detoxifys it. It binds to the ammonia making it unharmfull to your fish.

Agreed. Many of the water conditioning products say that they remove ammonia, which is not true. IT's still in there, just in a harmless form that will still show up on the test kits that most of us use.

[nc0gnet0]

But I am out of town for the weekend. And there lies my delimma. Do I do a WC Friday evening before I head out of town, or do I leave it be (especially considering that I added the Tetra SAFE start Monday, and more than one person has suggested bio-filter hit).... ???

The answer is C none of the above

Do you have a substrate and have you recently done anything with it?

[mcishaque]

The answer is C none of the above

Do you have a substrate and have you recently done anything with it?

I have substrate. No changes to it recently. Just the 2 times weekly gravel vaccuum during WC. Substrate is over 2 yrs established in the tank.

[mcishaque]

As well it should. Prime DOES NOT remove ammonia. It detoxifys it. It binds to the ammonia making it unharmfull to your fish. It is still available to your bio-filter and will be broken down to nitrite then nitrate. You will still test positive for ammonia with the API test kit. The seachem kit you have on order uses a different reagent, but that test has issues as well.

If you purchased a 2nd kit and it still reads the same you nuked your filters bio somehow. Was it left off for a period of time? Did you recently clean it or add anything unusual to your tank?

I have racked my noggin trying to figure out what might have nuked my biological filter(s). Nothing so far.

I added Tetra Safe start to get biologicals going just in case though.

But I have my doubts that this is the case. My reasoning: if there is ammonia, and my biologicals are nuked, I should see NO2 going up day by day. But I'm not (i'ts staying at 5 ppm). I usually see 0 NO2. Now I'm seeing traces of NO2, and I don't see NO2 increasing day by day. Therefore, I suspect false ammo reading: NH4+ is being brokend down to NO2, but I don't have enuff bacteria to get rid of all the NO2, just enuff to keep it at the 5ppm level, and in a week or two it'll dissapear ?

But keep them coming please. I'm open to any suggestions that are logical.

FAIL: maybe my fish have lived w/ 2 ppm ammo for so long that they have built up an immunity :-)

[Jhhnn]

If the fish are showing no signs of distress, you're probably just experiencing some kind of testing weirdness. the seachem kit should give you better answers...

What sort of "issues" are you talking about wrt the seachem kit, nc0gnet0?

[nc0gnet0]

What sort of "issues" are you talking about wrt the seachem kit, nc0gnet0?

Actually I was wrong, I thought the seachem test was salicylate based, it is not.

[mcishaque]

Seachem ammo test kit arrived.

Based on readaing from this kit, I have 0 NH3. So must have been reading NH4+ from the API kit.

Thanks all for your help !!!

[Jhhnn]

Seachem ammo test kit arrived.

Based on readaing from this kit, I have 0 NH3. So must have been reading NH4+ from the API kit.

Thanks all for your help !!!

Nice to hear that the situation really wasn't a situation at all. Rest assured you're not the first or the last person thrown for a loop by erroneous ammonia test kit readings.

The seachem kit is really the only modern one out there. All the others were developed prior to the use of chloramines in drinking water supplies, and prior to the need for water conditioners like prime to deal with the ammonia content of chloramines in drinking water.

Aquarists who use sodium thiosulfate in chlorinated water still do fine with the other kits, although they need to be aware that more and more suppliers are switching to chloramines on a regular basis.

When chloramines, prime, and old school test kits are combined, the results aren't accurate, more like alarmist, causing a lot of unnecessary angst among hobbyists who really are doing it right in the first place...

Best of luck to you in the future- all of us need a little of that...