California Blackworms- Good or Bad?

[underwaterforest]

The only topic at the NADA Show that all speakers agreed on was - and I quote - "it's not a matter of if but when you will have problems from feeding live blackworms".

It's not often that many professionals agree on a subject.

Really.

Would you care to expand upon this statement since I am interested to know what problems are commonly associated with CBWs. Thanks.

[yim11]

There was an open discussion forum at the show where all speakers where available and the audience could ask questions. One question that was brought up was in regards to feeding live blackworms, and all speakers gave the same opinion (as mentioned previously). I can't offer info or speak for any of the panel members, but if I recall correctly the main concern was in regards to the worms ability to transport or cause various diseases.

Maybe some of the panel members will chime in.

HTHs.

[ExReefer]

Just thought of another positive, I use tap water to rinse mine. Been doing it this way for a while now.

[LizStreithorst]

I've heard that some people are able to rinse them in tap. It certainly didn't work for me. I think that it depends on the amount of cholrine in the water. Aquatic creatures don't much appreciat high levels of chorine.

The only people I've heard of who have who have problems with the BWs are those who didn't keep them clean. If they are to be fed to your fish they must be kept clean. Did the speakers have the same opinion about the freeze dried? If the BWs harbor disease that must be the case with freeze dried as well. It is with Tubifex.

[yim11]

I've heard that some people are able to rinse them in tap. It certainly didn't work for me. I think that it depends on the amount of cholrine in the water. Aquatic creatures don't much appreciat high levels of chorine.

The only people I've heard of who have who have problems with the BWs are those who didn't keep them clean. If they are to be fed to your fish they must be kept clean. Did the speakers have the same opinion about the freeze dried? If the BWs harbor disease that must be the case with freeze dried as well. It is with Tubifex.

I don't recall a consensus on FD, or much discussion on the FD, so I can't comment on that. In my personal discussions w/Larry M. he was under the impression the FD process used for Mals worms could help remove some disease threat, but the primary factor on the FD (only speaking to Mals worms) was his worms are raised in a indoor facility vs Cali being raised outdoors (bird/animal crap).

HTHs

[William Palumbo]

I like the CBW's, and my breeding program does well with them. It is a fine line to not get the fish hooked on only the live worms. My breeders also take readily flake and pellets as well, along with FBW's. IF I notice them getting picky, I cut back on the CBW's. Getting the worms from my LFS was always a crap shoot...and I do mean crap! If the worms are barely alive and stink...you're going to have problems. Getting mine from Dan now and they are CLEAN!...6LBS and not a dead worm or leech. I keep mine in a container in my laundryroom sink, and I have an airstone in them, and also, my RO waste water flows thru the container continuously. Overflow holes drilled into the container, stuffed with filter floss keeps the worms in a shallow, constantly fresh amount of water...Bill

[underwaterforest]

Huh I just went to the NADA site and looked at their Discus Care section. Looking through the documents I found this statement about black worms.

"Black worms have an interesting reputation. They are easily obtained by mail order but can be a bit pricey since they require quick shipment. I find them to be extraordinary in terms of how enthusiastically my discus eat them (readily!!) They must be kept cold. A little fridge works wonderfully or if your spouse/significant other will not mind, the regular fridge works out well too. They do not climb out of their container. I keep them in shoe box size containers with a scant amount of water covering them. You must, MUST change the water daily on these worms. They turn gray and die off quickly without these very important daily rinsing procedures. I’ve never associated any health problems with feeding them to my discus. I do not know of anyone who continually propagates these worms at home. You buy them, feed them, buy them again, but IMO they are a very easy and nutritious food." From Discus Foods and Diet by Jen Kruckenberg


So I'm confused even further now. NADA talk about the dangers of blackworms according to yim11 at its meetings but has articles on it website that counter this. But then maybe Jen was a holdout of the pro blackworm opinion. Maybe her nod to the anti blackworm view is in the statement "Black worms have an interesting reputation". So I guess I will hope for the best and prepare for the worse in case blackworms cause problems, since I already have 2 lb on its way. I guess I can finally use that extra metro I have on the shelf if things go wrong

Alex

[William Palumbo]

Oh, NOW you're confused? Get used to it. There is NOTHING in black and white when it comes to Discus. Most if not all can be confusing. From temp. to filtration. No wrong/right answers. Find what works best for YOU! Starting with healthy worms is the first step...keep them healthy and you will have no problems...Bill

[LizStreithorst]

It funny. I was chatting with an Austrain guy on my Rainbow Fish forum and he said that the live over there could be nasty. I told him that it was not the case with the live ones we get here in the States.

In Cali there is so much fresh water running through the the culture that any pathogens would be flushed from the worms. Are there even any Avian parasites that can be passed on to fish through food? After all, birds put dropings in our rivers all the time. I don't know since I'm not a bird person. I trust the CBWs and value them as a food. But if I ever have a problem that I can trace back to feeding them, the world will know.

[yim11]

Jens article is quite a few years old, but her opinion is valid. I would be careful in trying to associate one users opinion with the opinions of the entire club though...

This debate has been ongoing for many years, and IMO - as time goes on and more info/experience becomes available (and more food options as well), the less professionals feed live worms.

Maybe try this - ask any supplier (non-hobbyist) you have or might get discus from if they feed live worms.

[underwaterforest]

Thanks Bill. I just think it's funny to make a blanket statement that black worms ALWAYS cause problems. And I agree that Jen is just one person and her views can't represent all of NADA and who know maybe she even changed her mind since she wrote the article.

I plan to try them and if I have problem I am prepared to hopefully fix them, that's why I'm experimenting with new food. I figured this would be a hot button topic that why I added the poll and wanted to see what good and bad things people felt about them. But in the end its my decision and I'm going to have to live with it and I will.

[Darrell Ward]

I agree with Bill. If you buy healthy worms to start with (like those from Dan), keep them rinsed and cold, don't crowd them too much (not over 1/4" deep), and don't float them with too much water, you'll have no problems at all. I would guarantee those that have had problems either bought half dead worms, or gave them poor care.

[yim11]

Thanks Bill. I'm not too confused personally I just think it's funny for an organization to make a statement that black worms ALWAYS cause problems and then to to deny it on their own website.

That would be bad...who did that?!?!

[LizStreithorst]

Jens article is quite a few years old, but her opinion is valid. I would be careful in trying to associate one users opinion with the opinions of the entire club though...

This debate has been ongoing for many years, and IMO - as time goes on and more info/experience becomes available (and more food options as well), the less professionals feed live worms.

Maybe try this - ask any supplier (non-hobbyist) you have or might get discus from if they feed live worms.

.

Of course suppliers and professionals don't feed them. They are in it to make money. The worms are expensive and require maintence. How many professionals feed freeze dried? None, I would bet.

I'm a hobbyist. Money be damned. I feed what I feel is best for my fish.

This silly debate will go on forever.

[Skip]

i buy just enough to last me a week.. its usually one unit from LFS and i go on the day they are delivered.. my fish GO NUTS! when i pull out the blue BW keeper.. its hilarious!