Another discus that doesn't eat

[Melissa]

Hmm... He said it "might" be... Maybe not though. It so hard to tell just by looking at a picture of a fish.
By no means am I an expert at much of anything in regards to diseases and discus... But the advice I would give you would be to get a microscope and save your money on possibly unnecessary medications. I bought a decent digital microscope on eBay for like 100.00.... It plugs right into the computer! You could scope the feces and identify exactly what is going on there, and you could scope a skin scrape and identify any external problems he may have.
If it is a more serious issue that is potentially affecting multiple fish... I wouldn't guess around with Meds. Plus, if you over medicate you could kill the fishes kidneys/liver or whatever and he'll die from that! Just my $.02.....

[Eddie]

The issue with chilo is that it can also display NO symptoms and only present itself when the fish become stressed. Once it's overtaking the fish, yes, the symptoms will be very easy to identify. If u are maintaining good water quality, non of your fish should have cloudy eye, unless it's from ph burn, ammonia burn, Protozoa or bacteria. Now narrow that down, what do get?


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[Dave B]

I guess I would've still guessed bacteria.

So, what's the next step here? Leave the main tank alone til I learn from dealing with the blue guy? Take immediate measures in the main tank?

[Dave B]

Great. As of today, two of the fish in the main tank aren't eating (3 meals so far). No cloudy eye is visible (or any other symptom), but one is clamping his left gill.

[Second Hand Pat]

Oh man Dave, sorry to hear you are having issues.

[Dave B]

I was pretty cavalier in the beginning. I guess I deserve it.

I certainly don't mind learning from it. This stuff is genuinely interesting to me (diagnosis, medicine, etc). I just like it a lot less when I start worrying that I'll lose fish we've become attached to.

[Second Hand Pat]

Yup, tough way to learn and hurts when it's personal.

[Dave B]

I dipped the guy downstairs again and gave him F+MG. My logic behind that was probably not that sound, but a general antibiotic didn't work so I want to see if this does. Quick Cure is cheap.

Upstairs in the main tank I just did another deep clean. It's amazing how dirty the filter and prefilter can get in ten days (last time I deep cleaned it). Definitely going to step the frequency of that up a lot. Still, I take my nitrate readings from back by the prefilter in the overflow, and they're still low, so I know the overall water quality (which is largely due to the large volume of water diluting things) is still OK.

Makes me wonder if maybe the last deep cleaning, which came during a 2-day adventure with plumbing, possibly shook something loose and that's what shut these two other guys down from eating.

Their gills appeared normal at last check (as opposed to the one who was clamping).

Not sure what to do next.

[Dave B]

Crap, did I miss Eddie's return cause I slid to the 2nd page?

Hope your trip to the US wasn't affected by the awful storms...

[Dave B]

The original subject is a lot less happy tonight. He is dropping slime all over the place and now has a white pimple near his tail.

Is it possible that this is the bad stuff on the way out and this is actually a positive? (No? Didn't think so.)

Upstairs the two look fine, as does everyone, but still avoid food. This makes me sad.

[Eddie]

Crap, did I miss Eddie's return cause I slid to the 2nd page?

Hope your trip to the US wasn't affected by the awful storms...

Oh, it was! Finally making home tonight.


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[Dave B]

Oh, it was! Finally making home tonight.

Damn, that could not have been fun... well, safe travels, sir. Where in the US did you get stranded? Hopefully not right in the teeth of the storm(s).

----

So the blue guy downstairs, the original fish in the thread, was in the process of succumbing to this issue just now. I euthanized him. Only the second time I've ever done that to a fish. Very sad. He had two open sores on the back of his body near the tail that were not present yesterday at noon (and became the white pimple I noted late last night).

So I have at my disposal several QTs, up to 29 gallons in size, and of course my 120g main tank, inside which there's obviously some issue - possibly chilodonella - even though nobody else is in dire straits. I am unable to decide on the proper course of action.

It seems clear that treating a full 120 gallons would be expensive and wasteful, and that a smarter idea would be to put the discus into the 29, or possibly split between the 29 and a 20 long, for treatment. I can always blast the main tank with a ton of PP before putting them back in.

But treat with what? Proceed as if it's chilo and give everyone formalin? Something else? Does the non-eating of the two guys upstairs (who I should note are NOT the San Merah I photographed) change the diagnosis? Should I isolate only the non-eaters? That doesn't seem wise, though, since there are indications of disease even on the SMs that do eat.

Behaviorwise they are still normal. Maybe slightly shy, but nothing unusual. They come up to the glass when I am nearby. They swim around and interact with the others and each other when food is out and otherwise. Once in a while I'll see one of them flick really quickly, kidn of like the courting behavior but only a single flick instead of a shudder (if that makes sense). But it's so infrequent - I'd say I've seen it 3 times in the past week - that I'm not convinced it's relevant. Sort of like with other cichlids flashing... sometimes they just do it once or twice without it indicating anything (though repeatedly doing it obviously means something's up).

What I really need is to catch them in the act of pooping. Much harder though since they aren't eating.

Everyone who is eating has normal thick healthy poops, fwiw. And whatever parasite/bacteria this is is not affecting the orangeheads whatsoever.

[mrblah00]

Any update? I've been following this thread and want to hear how it's going.
Sam

[Dave B]

Nothing since the last post. I'm not really sure what to do next.

[Eddie]

But treat with what? Proceed as if it's chilo and give everyone formalin? Something else? Does the non-eating of the two guys upstairs (who I should note are NOT the San Merah I photographed) change the diagnosis? Should I isolate only the non-eaters? That doesn't seem wise, though, since there are indications of disease even on the SMs that do eat.

Behaviorwise they are still normal. Maybe slightly shy, but nothing unusual. They come up to the glass when I am nearby. They swim around and interact with the others and each other when food is out and otherwise. Once in a while I'll see one of them flick really quickly, kidn of like the courting behavior but only a single flick instead of a shudder (if that makes sense). But it's so infrequent - I'd say I've seen it 3 times in the past week - that I'm not convinced it's relevant. Sort of like with other cichlids flashing... sometimes they just do it once or twice without it indicating anything (though repeatedly doing it obviously means something's up).

What I really need is to catch them in the act of pooping. Much harder though since they aren't eating.

Everyone who is eating has normal thick healthy poops, fwiw. And whatever parasite/bacteria this is is not affecting the orangeheads whatsoever.

From this, I wouldn't treat with anything except some TLC.