Wild Discus Tech Notes 2... Wild Greens...The basics and More....

[JamesP]

I recently setup up a 115 to raise the 13 month old F1 Tefes along with a couple of wild fish that have been the odd ones out when it comes to breeding pairs. Attached is a picture of a green Tefe I have been trying to pair up with one of the F1 Tefe.



Wild Tefe
Here are a couple of photos of the latest batch of fry. They are growing fast and are bottomless pits. The Heckel/Penang Eruption cross are growing faster than the Tefe. The are slightly larger and are 5 days younger. I have another batch from each pair just starting. Heckel cross started swimming last night and the Tefes just layed eggs tonight.

Tefe Fry

Heckel/Penang Eruption fry

[Discus Origins]

Very nice James!! Love how much brighter sheen the F1s have than their wild parents.

Mark

[JamesP]

Mark,
Thanks. Sorry I wasn't clear on my post the adult in the pictures above is a wild fish. She had a more intense sheen than any of the F1's right now. But they are still developing their colors.

Jim

[JamesP]

I have a new batch of F1 Tefe greens 2 plus inches, if anyone is looking to grow out a wild variety. They have been raised in tap water Ph of 8 and slightly hard water. I feed them almost exclusively Spectrum Grow pellets right now. As they grow they will need larger pieces and variety. I also have a batch of a cross between a Blue Faced Heckel and a Penang Eruption. They are also 2 plus inches and are starting to color out. They have either the traditional 9 bars or 14 bars. Most of the 9 bar ones seem to have a darker center bar as a Heckel traditionally does. Anyone can contact me for details. Photos below first photo is of the heckel cross note the two types as mentioned above.

Tefe Fry

Tefe Parents


Jim

[TURQ64]

Ahoy Jim, ..Back from KY, and I see the fry are doing well....cool beans..

[JamesP]

Welcome back. How did your fish fair while you were away?

[TURQ64]

Well, for the wild strains, the Tefe's are fine, but a few lagging behind in growth; maybe females...The Heckel's are doing bang-up; coloring up good, and settled into their tank pretty well...They are in with some Rams, who 'own' the bottom...All the domestics are doing good; a few more pairing off....

[JamesP]

If anyone is looking for Tefe Greens I have 2 1/2" F1 fry available. See my post under Hobbyist Breeders' for photos etc, I will ship. This is a great way to get a nice group at a reasonable price if you are willing to grow them out.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...e-Green-F1-fry

[discolicious]

Al started this thread to "start a discussion here about wild Discus and the traits that make them desirable apart from Domestics and compared to each other.... "

I want to make a point about wilds in general, and about "Greens" more specifically. My first discus 25 yrs ago were wild browns and it was the "wild" look that fascinated me. The bit of facial markings reminded me of National Geographic pictures I had seen of tribes with painted faces, and wondered if such things in nature influenced these tribes. I had them in a 125 gal embedded tank (in a wall) in my office and at night, I would turn off the room lights and totally zone out, watching them peek out of the shadows of the roots with their "tribal" faces, studying me as much as I was studying them.

It annoyed me a bit when I came back to the States, eager to pick up my new hobby again and found the fish store flooded with psychedelic discus fish that looked like they escaped an underwater Hippie convention... but not a single wild type.

25 yrs. later, I'm over the shock and even own some of those "hippie" fish. The only wild one I have now is a "red spotted green" that has almost no spots (the one in the avatar), but I'm still planning to get another 125 wild tank set up eventually. IMO, man is driven by his "Tower of Bable" need to create, to push limits, to do the "impossible" and that generally leads to a dichotomy of "ying yang" accomplishments. On the one hand, he creates what he thinks nature was incapable of doing (when really, nature simply had no need), but on the other hand, his motivation often leads to some greater inferiority (a fish that has little immunity, for example). I don't think it is inappropriate for man to take what he finds in nature and derive what he has decided is "more appropriate", prettier, or better, as long as he does not distort or destroy nature's work in the process.

It both puzzles and irritates me when I read statements like "the Green has the worst shape of all the wilds." Actually, the Green discus has the most perfect shape for Greens of all the wilds. It's what nature determined this particular variety of the species should look like. Was it a fluke? Did it have no purpose? Was there not a single natural force that made the slightly more "spade" shape more appropriate for this variety? I can envision now thousands of "wild enthusiasts" trying to breed the Green to its "more desirable shape". I hope that doesn't happen. I hope that those who appreciate the wilds for what they are will leave the Green (and all the other wilds) exactly as we find them in nature. If their shape or color is not what you like, go with one of the wilds that is closer to what you desire. Don't we have enough "modified" discus to choose from?

I like wolves and I like Poodles... I don't see the point in distorting wolves to look more like Poodles.

Tom
(the "Hippie Tye-Dyed" Discus)

[TURQ64]

Great photo, now pass that joint, my friend......

[discolicious]

Great photo, now pass that joint, my friend......

Lol... Those days are gone too ... Here's the fish I'm waiting for:

zebra discus2.jpg

Tom

[Apistomaster]

I completely agree with you, Tom, form follows function so there must be a reason why so many Greens are not perfectly round. But even within the species there are some from different parts of their range which are very round, the old and rather plain looking "Peruvian Greens were very round but those never seemed to be likely to get as large as other fish from different parts of their range.

If memory serves, DNA analysis indicates that the Greens are a younger species than the others and they maybe are adapting to their localities' conditions by being less round than some from other parts of their range.
If there is a perfect Discus it is a wild Discus. The comparison between wolves and pedigreed dogs is an apt one. Imposing the human aesthetics on wild Discus makes no sense to me at all.

I have a problem with trying to apply "show type" standards to any wild Discus. They are what they are because of evolutionary pressures.

[Mauricio]

Congratulations James.
Very Nice discus.

[Second Hand Pat]

Wild Tefe brood care

[Darrell Ward]

I found a picture of a group of Tefes I had from a few years ago buried in a mountain of pics on piccaso. I thought these shots were long gone. Like an idoit, I traded these fish...