Wild Discus Tech Notes 2... Wild Greens...The basics and More....

[TURQ64]

These guys have been tossing a spawn here and there, but I have active Heckel's in the same vicinity, so I've no plans to pull them anytime soon..




I'm pretty fond of Green Discus, but for now, I'll just watch them, as other fry have me stepping lively lately

[Second Hand Pat]

That is so cool Gary. Love that tank.

[BobDaniel]

I have just recently joined the forum and enjoy all the information. I have been breeding wild strains for quite a few years and have in the last year really started working with them again. I have a nice pair of Greens that have been producing for a year and finally have some F1's that are just a year old. Interesting how both parents tend to have a slightly more elongated body as some have mentioned earlier in this thread. But the F1's have much better confirmation. I will take some photos and post soon.

Is it possible that the parent stock were not as well fed as juveniles thus affecting the body shape? I have thought about this for years.

[Apistomaster]

Hi Bob,
I think if you wish to breed wild type Green Discus you need to understand that there is some variation in shape among any given population.
I personally think this is more true of the wild Greens than the other species.
Unless you have some which are grossly deformed you should accept that some body shape variation is normal and not to worry about it. Otherwise when we begin selecting for traits we are not being true to maintaining the wild phenotypes.
To me this defeats the purpose of continuing to breed wild phenotype true to their normal variations.

I know this is a controversial idea among some but I do not concern myself with minor body shape variations. Only definitely defective fish are culled at my place.

[sergeyal]

After experiencing with wild browns breeding , i'm ready to try S.Aequasiatus .
I think i have all the necessary conditions , like quet separate tank , water parameters , live food.
Now this is the time for me to pick a group of greens.
There are 4 sizes of them at my importers facility , from S to XL.
My question is how sexual maturity related to the size , at what size it is the best to chose a group for breeding purpose?

[Second Hand Pat]

Since I have successfully breed greens I would suggest getting a nice group of sub adult in the 4 to 5 inch size. They will take a year to mature and adapt to captive life. Then a big tank, RO water and low density and hopefully magic will happen.

[sergeyal]

Thanks Pat
i'll take your advise and buy subadults , hope my passion to wilds won't pass until they mature
any suggestions on a group size ?
i was thinking about 6 individuals.

[Second Hand Pat]

I would go with six

[sergeyal]

Hi Pat
Is there any heuristics on sexing wild greens?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Sergeyal,

I am pretty comforable that I know the gender of the Tefe's belonging to my original group from John (snook21) based on the males are larger, have longer finage above and below the tail and are overall thicker. Female seem to tend to have a darker more well defined halo. Also watching who pushes who around and give an indicate of gender but be aware this is based on my observations only.

Armed with this knowledge I drove happily to Mark's warehouse (Discus Origins) to help sex his Tefes RSGs (sub-adults). Once I arrived and looked at his fish I realized it was not that easy. We made our best guess and I choose two I hoped would be spotted males. Today those fish have grown and I think they are females and one of those fish is as large as the my known males. So bottom line, you think you have a handle on the gender and the fish will throw you a curve ball.

I will be moving the Tefe group to the 230 for some hopeful winter breeding and perhaps the gender will become known. I also have three fish from my first spawn in the group.

[sergeyal]

thanks for the comprehensive answer

[musicmarn1]

Thanks so much for the details on keeping these beautiful fish! It's my dream for the future. Where do I get. High efficiency filter can you give me a name? Thanks!

No, gh (general hardness) I like to be as low as possible 1-3, kH(carbonate hardness) I like to keep around 5-6 as it stabilizes pH, if using buffer to lower ph. Currently I am keeping a group of 6 RSGs along with a group of 6 Jatapu Heckels in a 90 gallon tank on a high efficiency wet/dry filter. The only one who is really aggressive is the dominant male, the rest might 'peck' at each other a little bit but nothing out of the ordinary. But imo the larger the total number of fish the less aggressive they are....so keeping 6 in a 90 gallon may bring out more aggression than I've seen with a tank of 12 adults.

[khooyang]

After following the wild greens and looking at some F1s. I found that some F1s don't have uniform stress bars and some lost the black rims around the body like most wilds have. Is that because of the habitat that don't mimic the wild environment that causing the lost of wild pattern?

[Second Hand Pat]

After following the wild greens and looking at some F1s. I found that some F1s don't have uniform stress bars and some lost the black rims around the body like most wilds have. Is that because of the habitat that don't mimic the wild environment that causing the lost of wild pattern?

I have had two batches of F1 green Tefe's. I found that the F1s mostly had straight bars and mine spotted earlier then wild greens. Make sure that when you are comparing F1s to wild fish, the F1s are old enough to show a good halo. In my experience both wild greens and F1s fully mature at about the two year mark and generally and again in my experience the females will have a full halo and the males tend to lost the halo in the lower anal fin. The halo develops fully as the fish fully mature. Please note that wild fish always do not always have uniform bars.

[Dutch dude]

I agree on what Pat wrote. As for the bars,...I happen to have a lot of fry with broken bars but this might be related to the cross of haraldi and aequifasciata. A lot of wild fish also show broken bars but they are simply not selected for the trade because fish with straight bars are more expensive. The same for the patterns and the markings,...al is selected for the trade into colour groups. There is a large change what goes as Curipera discus in the trade are actually red based Nhamunda discus. People associate red discus with Curipera so if they are willing to pay more for curipera the trade is willing to sell every red based discus as curipera. Unfortunately this is how it works.