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Thread: Pat's Wilds Journal

  1. #16
    Registered Member vera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Lovely idea Pat to keep a journal ! and great pictures too ! u need to give me some lessons in photography
    Natalia


    We're here for a good time...not a long time..

  2. #17
    Registered Member NanDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Hi Pat,
    I join the line of those admiring both your fish and the tanks and all I can say is well-done!

    I have a few questions though. In the home tank, what's the total flow of water through the filters and through that little marine-like current thingy - which I can't remember what it's called, not even in Hungarian. Just by looking at the sizes of those things, I would assume that it's close to the 500 gallons/hour rate, which seems a lot to me. And by a lot I mean: A LOT. Just to compare: my big one has a 15gal barrel filter under it, driven by a single Hydor Prime P20 canister filter, rated at 700 liters/hour, but I assume it barely does half of it.
    One evening, when everything's calm, the fish have been fed, just unplug all the pumps for as long as you think it means no harm to the filters (30 minutes should probably be alright) and see if you see any difference in the way the fish behave. I may be completely wrong, but I would be surprised if they did not react to it. Also, if you see them spending most of their chill-out time in one spot as a group, insteaf of sharing the space available more or less evenly, they are quite likely to be hanging around where the currents are not as strong or kill each other out. My Xingús line up along the 8' long back-wall of the tank after feeding and never ever group up, only when I open the lid and feed them. A friend of mine keeps a group of 7 Heckels and after he'd quartered the total flow in their similar-sized tank to yours, his fish looked like they were replaced for a group of happy ones.
    Also, looking at the pics it appears to me that the Reds are trying to stay out of the way of all the other fish. Is that really so or is it plainly accidental?

    As for a background colour for the blues... How about a shade of blue similar to my background? It contrasts the base-colour of the fish quite nicely, while the reflected light makes the blues blue.

    I absolutely like the idea of this rolling diary and will definately keep an eye on the updates. If the water and the food are o.k., I'm expecting an 'Umm... think I may have a pair"- sort of a post within 6 months or so.

    Nandi
    --=== LIQUID TENSION EXPERIMENT ===--

  3. #18
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by YSS View Post
    Sorry for not following along.

    As for the group of 10 or more, it goes for both wilds and domestics. But it also goes for other schooling fish. In my experiences, they school so differently when there are more than 10. I found 15 to be a great schooling number for the fish; discus, tetras, cories, and others.

    I know I already said this, but love your blues. I will have to get some.
    Hey YSS, love these blues too. Can't stop looking at them. On my dither fish there are 39 cardinals and 14 rummy nose. I will definitely have a school (is shoal more proper?) of discus when I find a replacement for my 180. I left my 180 in the old house as I had it built into the wall. I still have the canopy and stand so just need to find a tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by vera View Post
    Lovely idea Pat to keep a journal ! and great pictures too ! u need to give me some lessons in photography
    Thanks Vera, on the pictures I am pulling the camera on auto and letting it do the work. Most of the picture are blurry but the occasional one is fantastic. I like the idea of a journal and easier to keep track of one thread.
    Last edited by Second Hand Pat; 02-03-2011 at 10:42 PM.

  4. #19
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by NanDiscus View Post
    Hi Pat,
    I join the line of those admiring both your fish and the tanks and all I can say is well-done!
    Thanks Nandi, I really appreciate your generous comments. Makes I feel like I am doing right by these beautiful fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by NanDiscus View Post
    I have a few questions though. In the home tank, what's the total flow of water through the filters and through that little marine-like current thingy - which I can't remember what it's called, not even in Hungarian. Just by looking at the sizes of those things, I would assume that it's close to the 500 gallons/hour rate, which seems a lot to me. And by a lot I mean: A LOT. Just to compare: my big one has a 15gal barrel filter under it, driven by a single Hydor Prime P20 canister filter, rated at 700 liters/hour, but I assume it barely does half of it.
    The marine-like current thingy (made me laugh) is a Hydor Koralia Nano (Mini) Pump/Powerhead and pumps 240 gph. It is not plugged in. I was playing with it during my worm experiment. The total flow rate thought the sump is between 300 or 400 gallons per hour. Yours is 700 L | 1 gal / 3.8 L | = 184 gallons (according to yahoo). The flow from the pump returns is directly along the back wall.

    Quote Originally Posted by NanDiscus View Post
    One evening, when everything's calm, the fish have been fed, just unplug all the pumps for as long as you think it means no harm to the filters (30 minutes should probably be alright) and see if you see any difference in the way the fish behave. I may be completely wrong, but I would be surprised if they did not react to it. Also, if you see them spending most of their chill-out time in one spot as a group, insteaf of sharing the space available more or less evenly, they are quite likely to be hanging around where the currents are not as strong or kill each other out. My Xingús line up along the 8' long back-wall of the tank after feeding and never ever group up, only when I open the lid and feed them. A friend of mine keeps a group of 7 Heckels and after he'd quartered the total flow in their similar-sized tank to yours, his fish looked like they were replaced for a group of happy ones.
    I will try that and report back here. I believe I can cut of flow if necessary. When the reds became comfortable in the QT they did spread out a bit into two groups of two and four.

    Quote Originally Posted by NanDiscus View Post
    Also, looking at the pics it appears to me that the Reds are trying to stay out of the way of all the other fish. Is that really so or is it plainly accidental?
    Before the reds were added the cardinals stayed about middle of the tank and the rummy nose liked the bottom. I think it's the other fish stayed away from the discus. I observed the reds for a while before posting this the they seem to stay middle to lower parts of the tank but swim both ends and middle quite freely.

    Quote Originally Posted by NanDiscus View Post
    As for a background colour for the blues... How about a shade of blue similar to my background? It contrasts the base-colour of the fish quite nicely, while the reflected light makes the blues blue.
    I will go check out your background.

    Quote Originally Posted by NanDiscus View Post
    I absolutely like the idea of this rolling diary and will definately keep an eye on the updates. If the water and the food are o.k., I'm expecting an 'Umm... think I may have a pair"- sort of a post within 6 months or so.
    ...we shall see.

  5. #20
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    So I tried Nandi's suggestion last night. My silly lab foiled the experiment. I turned off the pump and tank became quiet. The reds went to the center of the tank and here comes the dog. I had brought her home a new ball and she has been bugging Tom and I to throw it for her. I'm sitting quietly in the chair and here comes the dog and plops a very wet ball in my lap. I throw the ball and bang, into the tank stand the dog's tail goes as she goes by...and the discus go hide.

    So this morning as I feed I observe where the food goes and there is a current going from upper right to lower left across the lenght of the tank. I will reposition the right most pump return tonight. Good call on Nandi's part.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by NanDiscus View Post
    Hi Pat,
    I join the line of those admiring both your fish and the tanks and all I can say is well-done!

    I have a few questions though. In the home tank, what's the total flow of water through the filters and through that little marine-like current thingy - which I can't remember what it's called, not even in Hungarian. Just by looking at the sizes of those things, I would assume that it's close to the 500 gallons/hour rate, which seems a lot to me. And by a lot I mean: A LOT. Just to compare: my big one has a 15gal barrel filter under it, driven by a single Hydor Prime P20 canister filter, rated at 700 liters/hour, but I assume it barely does half of it.
    One evening, when everything's calm, the fish have been fed, just unplug all the pumps for as long as you think it means no harm to the filters (30 minutes should probably be alright) and see if you see any difference in the way the fish behave. I may be completely wrong, but I would be surprised if they did not react to it. Also, if you see them spending most of their chill-out time in one spot as a group, insteaf of sharing the space available more or less evenly, they are quite likely to be hanging around where the currents are not as strong or kill each other out. My Xingús line up along the 8' long back-wall of the tank after feeding and never ever group up, only when I open the lid and feed them. A friend of mine keeps a group of 7 Heckels and after he'd quartered the total flow in their similar-sized tank to yours, his fish looked like they were replaced for a group of happy ones.
    Also, looking at the pics it appears to me that the Reds are trying to stay out of the way of all the other fish. Is that really so or is it plainly accidental?

    As for a background colour for the blues... How about a shade of blue similar to my background? It contrasts the base-colour of the fish quite nicely, while the reflected light makes the blues blue.

    I absolutely like the idea of this rolling diary and will definately keep an eye on the updates. If the water and the food are o.k., I'm expecting an 'Umm... think I may have a pair"- sort of a post within 6 months or so.

    Nandi
    I second Nandi's observations on flowrate. I've experienced the same thing myself when I experimented with flowrate with my current batch of heckels. They definitely enjoy much lower flow. Even in my latest set up on the other thread, the sump is powered by an Eheim Compact+ 5000, which is rated 2000-5000 litres/hour. When I first set up the tank and put the heckels in, the Eheim was going at full blast...the tank is about 423 litres, so if you include head loss, the Eheim was probably doing about 10x turnover per hour. This is a flow rate that I'm comfortable with, having come from a planted tank background. However, I soon noticed after a couple of days that the discus were hanging around together in an area to the left of the tank, where I knew for sure the flow was slow (because of the way I positioned the pump output - it was about 2/3 way on the left, and turned to "blow" towards the front right corner...so the leftmost 1/3 of the tank was the "non-turbulent" area).

    In my mind was Heiko's recommendation in his DiscusBook01, where he said to give wild discus a very large filter, but not too much flow. Hence, what I did was to turn the Eheim down to its lowest rated setting (i.e. 2000 litres/hour). With this new setting, the total turnover was probably closed to 4+x per hour. The change in the discus was almost immediate and very stark. As can be seen from the few pictures I posted up, they began to spread out and hang out more in other parts of the tank, even to the extent of spending some time chilling at the right-most area of the tank, where the flow is the strongest.

    In terms of the background colour of the tank, I'd always go with black, especially with wilds. It just looks more natural to me, and is easier to scape it "nature style" since black is non-intrusive and creates a perspective of depth. It also hides any unsightly algae you may develop on the back wall of the tank. If you go blue or white, it'll be hard imho to go "au naturale" with the scape to create a biotope setup. Just my opinion

  7. #22
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Thanks illumnae for the additional info. My flowrate is about 4x to 5x. I think if I reposition that one pump return I will be ok. Of course the reds will tell me if they are happy.

    People's opinions on backgrounds is all over the place. I may just buy some colored construction paper and "try on" the different colors.

  8. #23
    Registered Member NanDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    I just had a second thought about that background colour. Illumnae is probably right, black is a more forgiving colour. There is not a single shot of my main tank without visible spots of algae on it.

    Pat, I would say, that the 4x to 5x flowrate is still a tad high. Give that unplugged filter test a go and see what happens. I haven't read DiscusBook01 (yet), but the Xingús' behaviour taught me what Heiko apparently wrote about.

    Nandi
    --=== LIQUID TENSION EXPERIMENT ===--

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Love the driftwood and the layout. What's the source for the pieces...if I may ask.

    Francine

  10. #25
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Hey Francine, I get my DW from PC1 who is a sponser here. He has had some nice pieces lately.

  11. #26
    Registered Member vera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Thanks illumnae for the additional info. My flowrate is about 4x to 5x. I think if I reposition that one pump return I will be ok. Of course the reds will tell me if they are happy.

    People's opinions on backgrounds is all over the place. I may just buy some colored construction paper and "try on" the different colors.
    i wouldnt change a thing Pat ! its perfect !!just a pump if there is a way to adjust
    Natalia


    We're here for a good time...not a long time..

  12. #27
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Thanks Vera, the background color question is for the second tank. On the flowrate of the home tank I will adjust the pump return (affects where currents are created in the tank) then cut back on the pump output if needed.

  13. #28
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Here is a picture of the reds taken a couple of days ago. It shows them all pointing into the current



    I adjusted the pump return to point the current along the back wall. I feed flake and got a nice, slow drift to the bottom in the center of the tank. Still need to try the filter off experiment and I will tonight if I have some quiet time.
    Last edited by Second Hand Pat; 02-06-2011 at 12:45 AM.

  14. #29
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Here is a couple reference pictures of the uatuman blues showing each side of the fish. These can be used to comparison later to show growth and development of color.

    Smaller blue



    Larger blue


  15. #30
    Registered Member vera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat's Wilds Journal

    Love the colors Pat ! , i had Uatumas blue but the were yellow brown color and permanent bars , i loved their shape
    Natalia


    We're here for a good time...not a long time..

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