skittish behavior

[Innivus]

Hey all, my fish haven't been super ill or dying, but there's just something a bit off about them. I'm missing something and I'm hoping to find out what it is, and I'd like to figure out what it is pre-'let me dump everything I can try in here at various stages and hope I get it right' (in other words, I don't want to do this with trial-and-error chemical baths).

Again, no an urgent disaster, just a thought that something here isn't right. My hope is that somebody has seen something similar, and will be able to articulate a reason and (hopefully) a solution to what's up with them.

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

The good - they eat, they're colorful, they flirt and chase each other. One is a bit darker than the others, but still engages in the eating/chasing.

The bad - For example, my fish eat, but they don't come to the surface... they stay off to the side and wait for the food to fall to the bottom and peck at it. They never come to the front of the tank when I walk by, but actually retreat a bit. And if I move too quickly they spook and start flailing all over the tank, often hitting against driftwood. Every once in a blue moon (say, once every half hour) a discus will flick against the driftwood or a leaf.

The ugly - I'm completely unsure as to what's going on. There's no direct sign of hex (no white poop); I've done a round of metro anyway, about four months ago (400mg/10g at 92 degrees for a week, also used some in food). I'm not sure if it's because I gave them a place to hide (again, driftwood) or if the tank is slightly overcrowded (see tank details). I'm giving them a prazi bath as we speak to see if that cures the driftwood rubbing, but no significant improvement in terms of the shyness.

So now I'm questioning everything - is it my lights (t5)? is it the driftwood? the plants? do they not like my shirt?


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Just the skittishness and shyness.


3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

see above

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

65 gallon, 5 year-old discus at 6" each, 4 plecos (all in the 3-4" range), 3 cory cats, 4 small blue rams.

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

one to two times a week, 100% direct from faucet (shockingly, New York City has AMAZING water ... 6.5 pH, no chlorine, chemicals, low TDS, etc.) / tank has been up a year/ gravel with 3 plants (2 anubis, 1 madagascar lace)

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp _____83

- ph _____6.5

- ammonia reading ____0ppm

- nitrite reading ____0ppm

- nitrate reading ____ > 5ppm

- well water ____

- municipal water ____x

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

Nothing.

Thanks to everyone for getting to the bottom of this post, and hopefully getting to the bottom of my issue.

[jpdevol]

You did not mention if the behavior is a recent development, has been ongoing for some time, or has always been the case.

[Skip]

when my acted funny like that.. i made daily water changes (not 100%).. he perked them up in a couple of days.. go figure..

[discolicious]

from a website describing NYC's water supply: (http://www.eserc.stonybrook.edu/cen5...terSupply.html)

Today, 50% of the city’s water comes from the Delaware system, 40% from the Catskill system, and the remaining 10% comes from the Croton system. The city now has 19 reservoirs; the farthest is 120 miles from central Manhattan. This long travel time, which is powered by gravity, results in most of the microbes dying naturally. The water is treated with:

* chlorine to kill organisms,
* fluoride to prevent tooth decay,
* sodium hydroxide to raise pH levels, and
* orthophosphate, a substance that coats pipes, to prevent lead from leaching into the drinking water.

As recently as 2010 NYC reported elevated levels of lead in the water. I hope you are using prime or something similar when you do water changes. They may have increased their chemical additions.

[Sean Buehrle]

Yep id say its your water. If your not using any conditioner your lucky they are alive. My fish are skittish if i have a room light on even though the tank light is on. I think they just go throigh stages. Try putting a tv near the tank, i heard that works.


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[Innivus]

The behavior has been going on for a while, almost as long as I've had them. And discolicious, thanks for the info on the water source. I'll be a bit more diligent about the use of prime dechlorinators, but I've also talked to a bunch of other NYC discus guys/gals, and most don't use prime - just make sure the water bubbles up as the water enters the water. But it's completely worth a try, and is exactly the sort of solution that I'm hoping for - simple, easy to remedy and isn't going to put the fish through any tough times. thanks and I'll let you know what happens.

[jpdevol]

Hmmm... Well, I had questions abut the water routine as well; however, my first suspect would be the other tankmates. Corys are a bit hyper and could cause Discus to be skitttish and Plecos are known to chase Discus at night - trying to attach to them - and also would make Discus skittish. Placing those species in another tank for several days may solve the mystery.

[Innivus]

JP, that's not a bad idea either. I've never seen a pleco attack (sounds like a bad TV special!), or seen any evidence on the discus, but that doesn't mean it isn't a relatively decent hypothesis. I'm going to give the prime experiment a week or so and see if anything changes.

Please keep some of the ideas coming... because this is all very super helpful stuff to think about. As I've said before, I'm a bit tapped on ideas but having another source question my basic assumptions (like 'NYC water is perfect') is a really great thing to hear.

[Innivus]

Update: I think I solved the case of the skittish discus. It's a bit weird, but the only thing that's made for a lasting improvement has been more oxygen - in other words, more surface disturbance. I'd never thought of it because I've never seen the discus at the top of the water gasping for air. I thought I had enough - I originally had two filter exhausts and a small air stone, but when I turned one exhaust up to almost 'fountain' the water, they were active and running around in about half an hour. And they're been that way ever since: no skittishness, no hiding, just bright beautiful discus. Thanks for all your help everyone.