SD forum/members' poor reputation ...???? What can we do about it ?

[DiscusBR]

This has been a good discussion as far as I am concerned. Anytime we are made to fall back and consider how we respond to others isn't all bad. That said I don't think anything really needs to be changed here. We just need to remind ourselves that we were new once and respond accordingly.

Well said. No reason to stress here. This is a terrific site full of generous people who, for the most part, offer excellent and constructive information/criticism.

But I will ask again.............what is the right way to respond?

I don´t think there is a single right way to respond. Avoiding criticism just to avoid hurting someone´s feelings when problems are evident, as your example illustrates, is definetely not the way to go. But I hope this thread can help us figure ways that keep the conversation civil, friendly, and welcoming. I agree with April that we could welcome more the newbies (well, I still one of them). I noticed that in another discus-devoted forum when a newbie posts people respond the questions but also add a lot of "welcome" smilies. It is a simple gesture but it helps.

Marc: No need to apologize. You did not insult anyone.

So, my message is, let´s take it easy. The intention of Paul´s thread is to improve a bit the best forum available to discuss our beloved fishes.

[judy]

Bologna
Did you read that entire thread? I'll be you didn't.
That person was being judgmental and a snob.
She came to the conclusion that waterchanges were not needed and took a Jab at people who do large waterchanges.
She said she couldn't believe we were so unfriendly towards nature and in another post accused people on this site of trying to discourage new discus keepers from trying to keep discus, by setting standards so high.
She started it and got what she had coming.
Al pmd me and asked that I not do it again, to let his mods take care of it.
And I told him I would follow his rules.

Maybe the way I acted was inappropriate but still , I'm not the type to sit here and let someone talk smack and tell lies.
If thats what a dick is then I suppose I am one. I'll wear that badge, no problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Criticism or disagreement can be phrased in a polite way. Your posts have sometimes been rude and peppered with obscenities, which is unnecessary and tends to give people the wrong impression about you. Surely you can disagree without insulting those with whom you disagree.

[ZX10R]

I will admit it just gets under my skin when someone new comes here and the thread is called "What do you think of my fish" and the first thing everyones says is garbage, trash fish, take them back, body to eye ratio is off, waste of many, buy from a sponsor you are wasting money. Then you look over and see they have maybe 4 posts and you realize they are new on here. I mean come on instead of bashing them right from the start talk to them point them in the right direction and help them learn the difference between the fish don't rip them. Also just because someone has a different idea them yours don't tell them they are stupid and they are going to fail. I have 22 discus I bought around 2.5"-3.5" and 2 Stingrays I grew everyone of them out in substrate, sand, driftwood and I bet over half my fish now are over 5.5" several being over 6+". Was that the way you would of done it maybe not but it worked for me and my fish are nice and big and healthy. I think there is a difference between giving advise in a nice way and telling someone do it this way or you will fail.

[YSS]

We can all strive to improve how we respond and try to help other members without bashing.

[roclement]

Here's what I'll do when I newb asks again about his discus...

"...dear new person, please be aware that you have joined a elite forum that deals only with discus therefore our standards are a little higher than other forums when in comes to discus (the people here are way below common standards! ) so please take my oppinion and any input I give with a grain of salt and take it if you wish...this is in no way personal or directed towards your inteligence or lack thereof, you came and you asked and you shall receive.

Very respectfully submited,

Rodrigo"

Maybe I'll make this my new signature!

Rodrigo

[TURQ64]

Originally Posted by seanbuehrle
Bologna
Did you read that entire thread? I'll be you didn't.
That person was being judgmental and a snob.
She came to the conclusion that waterchanges were not needed and took a Jab at people who do large waterchanges.
She said she couldn't believe we were so unfriendly towards nature and in another post accused people on this site of trying to discourage new discus keepers from trying to keep discus, by setting standards so high.
She started it and got what she had coming.
Al pmd me and asked that I not do it again, to let his mods take care of it.
And I told him I would follow his rules.

Maybe the way I acted was inappropriate but still , I'm not the type to sit here and let someone talk smack and tell lies.
If thats what a dick is then I suppose I am one. I'll wear that badge, no problem.

Criticism or disagreement can be phrased in a polite way. Your posts have sometimes been rude and peppered with obscenities, which is unnecessary and tends to give people the wrong impression about you. Surely you can disagree without insulting those with whom you disagree.

Still flogging that horse?

We call all strive to improve how we respond and try to help other members without bashing.

So, we're supposed to change our personalities to a phony persona that isn't really who we are?..Nada, my friend........

[judy]

Originally Posted by seanbuehrle
Bologna
Did you read that entire thread? I'll be you didn't.
That person was being judgmental and a snob.
She came to the conclusion that waterchanges were not needed and took a Jab at people who do large waterchanges.
She said she couldn't believe we were so unfriendly towards nature and in another post accused people on this site of trying to discourage new discus keepers from trying to keep discus, by setting standards so high.
She started it and got what she had coming.
Al pmd me and asked that I not do it again, to let his mods take care of it.
And I told him I would follow his rules.

Maybe the way I acted was inappropriate but still , I'm not the type to sit here and let someone talk smack and tell lies.
If thats what a dick is then I suppose I am one. I'll wear that badge, no problem.






Still flogging that horse?




So, we're supposed to change our personalities to a phony persona that isn't really who we are?..Nada, my friend........

This is exactly what I mean. "Still flogging that horse" is unconstructive and impolite. Are you naturally rude and abrasive when you have conversations with people? If your real persona is rude, insulting, expletive-laden, and intolerant of other opinions, then by all means feel free to behave that way. Surely, though, you're not that sort of person-- and if you're not, why would you feel it's socially acceptable to behave that way online?
Forums where flame wars constantly erupt thanks to a few individuals are pointless, irritating, and generally tend to degrade into a bunch of hotheads cussing each other out while more civilized heads just leave, allowing the thing to collapse into a little node of online nastiness.
This forum has been *almost* entirely free of that sort of destructive attitude, and I really hope it stays that way, because for the most part, it's a large group of people who are intelligent, tolerant of others, willing to share experiences, able to accept other opinions without dumping on the people who hold them, and more than willing to help others whose fish may be in trouble for whatever reason.
The few people who tend to flame or who are rude, abrupt, or mean-spirited don't do so often, and I wish they'd do so even less, because it's those few who degrade the image of the forum in the online fish forum world. And that's really a shame, because this is both a great resource and a generally great communiyt of like-minded folks-- and it's one I very much appreciate having.

[YSS]

We can all strive to improve how we respond and try to help other members without bashing.

So, we're supposed to change our personalities to a phony persona that isn't really who we are?..Nada, my friend........

I miss typed a word (meant to say can, not call), but I think you knew what I meant.

I don't think trying to be nicer is changing your personality or being a phony. There is always room for improvement.

[lipadj46]

My angle as a new guy who got a bit of the "hazing" or maybe just a dose of the ugly truth. You deal with any enthusiasts at the top of any hobby you get what could be perceived as elistist attitudes, its not just here but most every "specific" forum. You have to pay your dues and deal with the attitude until people think you are learning and falling in line with the board's idiosynchrosis and contributing.

As far as expecting most newcomers to come and read stickies and search first before asking and not get offended if they feel slighted don't hold your breath.

[TURQ64]

This is exactly what I mean. "Still flogging that horse" is unconstructive and impolite. Are you naturally rude and abrasive when you have conversations with people? If your real persona is rude, insulting, expletive-laden, and intolerant of other opinions, then by all means feel free to behave that way. Surely, though, you're not that sort of person-- and if you're not, why would you feel it's socially acceptable to behave that way online?
Forums where flame wars constantly erupt thanks to a few individuals are pointless, irritating, and generally tend to degrade into a bunch of hotheads cussing each other out while more civilized heads just leave, allowing the thing to collapse into a little node of online nastiness.
This forum has been *almost* entirely free of that sort of destructive attitude, and I really hope it stays that way, because for the most part, it's a large group of people who are intelligent, tolerant of others, willing to share experiences, able to accept other opinions without dumping on the people who hold them, and more than willing to help others whose fish may be in trouble for whatever reason.
The few people who tend to flame or who are rude, abrupt, or mean-spirited don't do so often, and I wish they'd do so even less, because it's those few who degrade the image of the forum in the online fish forum world. And that's really a shame, because this is both a great resource and a generally great communiyt of like-minded folks-- and it's one I very much appreciate having.

Actually, you don't want to go there with me..Yes, Ive been extremely rude in real life, in person. I'm a very proud to be retired Structural Ironworker's supt..I never get men and women to risk their lives at a thousand feet for some measely wage by being sweet. I've never told some guy his toolbelt looks great...I haven't told some connector his eight pound sledge hammer was pretty.... my average tone of voice and level of criticism makes petals fall off of plants in adjacent high rises...people flat assed leave the building when one of my guys drops a bolt or a washer and I have to talk dirty for a spell..I was punking blurprints on the derrick floor at twelve for my father, a second generation Ironworker...cut my teeth on structural bolts...played toys on the bridge deck..we won't go there. You can't take the heat. And if that's where I'm expected to change, then perhaps it's not the site for me, just beginner's and anthromorphic tree huggers.....You are getting my polite PC computer ettiquette side

[roclement]

Actually, you don't want to go there with me..Yes, Ive been extremely rude in real life, in person. I'm a very proud to be retired Structural Ironworker's supt..I never get men and women to risk their lives at a thousand feet for some measely wage by being sweet. I've never told some guy his toolbelt looks great...I haven't told some connector his eight pound sledge hammer was pretty.... my average tone of voice and level of criticism makes petals fall off of plants in adjacent high rises...people flat assed leave the building when one of my guys drops a bolt or a washer and I have to talk dirty for a spell..I was punking blurprints on the derrick floor at twelve for my father, a second generation Ironworker...cut my teeth on structural bolts...played toys on the bridge deck..we won't go there. You can't take the heat. And if that's where I'm expected to change, then perhaps it's not the site for me, just beginner's and anthromorphic tree huggers.....You are getting my polite PC computer ettiquette side

[jarret8x]

Actually, you don't want to go there with me..Yes, Ive been extremely rude in real life, in person. I'm a very proud to be retired Structural Ironworker's supt..I never get men and women to risk their lives at a thousand feet for some measely wage by being sweet. I've never told some guy his toolbelt looks great...I haven't told some connector his eight pound sledge hammer was pretty.... my average tone of voice and level of criticism makes petals fall off of plants in adjacent high rises...people flat assed leave the building when one of my guys drops a bolt or a washer and I have to talk dirty for a spell..I was punking blurprints on the derrick floor at twelve for my father, a second generation Ironworker...cut my teeth on structural bolts...played toys on the bridge deck..we won't go there. You can't take the heat. And if that's where I'm expected to change, then perhaps it's not the site for me, just beginner's and anthromorphic tree huggers.....You are getting my polite PC computer ettiquette side

Fine by me I much rather here it straight from someone like you than go to another forum and be lied to and be treated better. Lets just all keep it real and let al decide who is bad like everyone has been.seems to be working here.because without all the advice of everyone on here I would have ended with awful looking discus and I know it. This is why I come to this site to learn from people who have done it and have been thought it. So I rather keep people like gary around then gain a few people who have no idea what their doing. Just my point of view.

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[Discus Origins]

Lots of dialogue on this topic, guess time for me to jump in-

We all know deep down inside what treating others with respect and integrity is, how we choose to use that knowledge is what makes us different individually. Treat others the way we want to be treated, how many of our mothers said that a thousand times? I don't think asking each of us to answer newbie questions with a positive tone is a lot. Out of the thousands of members on this forum there may be a handful that has truly been involved with discus on a breeding, research, commercial basis to even have tested out all the 'rules' of discus keeping to know if they are true on a personal basis, not heresay or third party experience. The rest are here to interject what they've learned in their short time with discus.

I read lots of posts on here every day and most of the 'advice' given are either what they heard from someone else or just plain wrong. I do read lots of negative comments to newbies, and of course the regular attacks on someone trying out a biotope or planted tank. There isn't one 'right' way to keep discus, and it shouldn't feel that way to anyone new to the hobby. Last I checked many breeders and suppliers of discus are closing up or scaling down. The hobby is declining, the last thing we discus lovers need to do is create a elitist attitude because we think all other fish is below our standards. Welcoming newbies and then taking the time to teach them, with options, is what will get more people involved.

Now, we all have seen the occasional newbie who doesn't take our advice. Those are the ones I have no problem straightening out when they continue to have problems. But I think this is more about the interaction in the beginning, its not hard to see that this is someone's first few posts. Give them a break, help them out because even though this may be our 100th time hearing the same question, its their first time talking about it. We all started as dumb fishkeepers, it took many mistakes and lots of advice to get where I am now. If someone would have just treated me as a waste of time and given me attitude when I asked questions I probably would not have kept discus for the past 20 years.

And to all the 'straight talkers' on the forum, no need to change your ways. Maybe just stay out of the conversation until you see that wrong advice is being given or the newbie is not listening. Then I'm sure if you guys don't jump in I will.

[LizStreithorst]

Actually, you don't want to go there with me..My average tone of voice and level of criticism makes petals fall off of plants in adjacent high rises...people flat assed leave the building when one of my guys drops a bolt or a washer and I have to talk dirty for a spell..I was punking blurprints on the derrick floor at twelve for my father, a second generation Ironworker...cut my teeth on structural bolts...played toys on the bridge deck..we won't go there. You can't take the heat. And if that's where I'm expected to change, then perhaps it's not the site for me, just beginner's and anthromorphic tree huggers.....You are getting my polite PC computer ettiquette side

No one should ask you to change the way you are. I think you're great! I used to make people quake in their shoes once upon a time. All 5' 3" 115 lbs of me. Go figure...Old age has mellowed me a bit.

[ericatdallas]

Wow, this convo is degrading...

It went from a debate on the perception people have (which, I haven't seen any evidence that supports the claim), to the legitimacy of the claim, to how we should act?

If anyone is out of line, invisible laws go to work to fix the situation. Viewing past threads, people who are "trolls", jerks, etc are banned AND opposed by the general forum members. It's a self-correcting process. If we're all jerks and we are all okay with it, then nothing needs to be changed.

Occassionaly we say things that offend new members, they say things that annoy us, and even more often we get irritated at each other (this thread as an example).

That being said, it's NEVER okay to intentionally be a jerk. If you are intentionally a jerk, you're just WRONG. HOWEVER, speaking the truth, giving it straight, and not hand-holding every new guy IS NOT the same thing as being a jerk. IF you're saying things just to be mean, that aren't constructive and deliberately insulting, or you're purposely trying to intimidate then you are a jerk and chances are good that people will ignore you anyway.

If you fall anywhere in between at certain times then it's called being HUMAN.

JMO.