SD forum/members' poor reputation ...???? What can we do about it ?

[Larry Bugg]

No one should ask you to change the way you are. I think you're great! I used to make people quake in their shoes once upon a time. All 5' 3" 115 lbs of me. Go figure...Old age has mellowed me a bit.

LOL, Liz. You still have it girl!! You made me jump a couple of times when we were dealing with the raffle. But then again, I know you well enough to take it with a grain of salt. Mellowed...................you can still be pretty fiesty when you need to be. And if you are old then that makes me old.................don't think so!

[Larry Bugg]

After reading this afternoons replies I remember why I wasn't going to to post to this thread.

[judy]

Telling it straight-- especially online, when voice can't be used to help interpret tone-- can be done in a well-mannered way, I believe. That's not asking anyone to change the way they are in terms of their personality.

[richgrenfell]

Actually, you don't want to go there with me..Yes, Ive been extremely rude in real life, in person. I'm a very proud to be retired Structural Ironworker's supt..I never get men and women to risk their lives at a thousand feet for some measely wage by being sweet. I've never told some guy his toolbelt looks great...I haven't told some connector his eight pound sledge hammer was pretty.... my average tone of voice and level of criticism makes petals fall off of plants in adjacent high rises...people flat assed leave the building when one of my guys drops a bolt or a washer and I have to talk dirty for a spell..I was punking blurprints on the derrick floor at twelve for my father, a second generation Ironworker...cut my teeth on structural bolts...played toys on the bridge deck..we won't go there. You can't take the heat. And if that's where I'm expected to change, then perhaps it's not the site for me, just beginner's and anthromorphic tree huggers.....You are getting my polite PC computer ettiquette side

LOL! As a heavy equipment mechanic and welder, I totally get that!

[roclement]

Judy,

With all due respect to you since I do not mean this in any offensive way of any kind...please believe me.

How can we presume to be the judges of how people behave and what they mean, intention wise when they post? Isn't that what the mods and Al and Ryan are in place for? It has worked well so far and I see no reason why it would stop all of the sudden.

Assuming that your way of comunicating is any better than any one elses makes you look arrogant in my eyes...I am sorry but I am being honest. How can we presume that one way is better than another? Just because we think so?

The only way this all works is if we all trust the people that run this place to keep it civil and keep it running, if we all start recomending to other members how they should or not behave, all we are going to have if flame wars and bickering. It has worked this way since 2002 and I think it will for a much longer time to come.

Rodrigo

[Sean Buehrle]

Criticism or disagreement can be phrased in a polite way. Your posts have sometimes been rude and peppered with obscenities, which is unnecessary and tends to give people the wrong impression about you. Surely you can disagree without insulting those with whom you disagree.

Again bologna
I've never said one cuss word on this site unless I was saying the same thing the person I was talking to said it first, find one and prove me wrong.
You won't be able to.

I find it pretty funny your selective reading of my posts, go back and re read them.
I have in the case of the woman I was talking about in the other post responded to her profanity by using the exact same words she used first.
I believe she said I needed to get laid, I responded to that, but still no cuss words.

In the case of Judy who I have no problem with, she like you jumped on my case without a bit of reason, she clearly didn't read any post in that thread but mine, it ticked her off and she blamed me for everything. Still no cuss words.

In another thread in water works I got into a heated discussion with a person here in my city that I invited here quite frankly because he is selling discus to people in my fish club that are below sub par. It's the way he is raising them, no water changes.
I'm trying to get thru to him and others in this club how to raise or purchase a quality or at least a healthy discus, it's a losing and frustrating battle. One that ive given up on, in the future ill just point out everything that is wrong with his fish so nobody will waste their money on them.

So get to looking and post these obscene words I've used, your not going to find any.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jimg]

I read lots of posts on here every day and most of the 'advice' given are either what they heard from someone else or just plain wrong.

There isn't one 'right' way to keep discus, and it shouldn't feel that way to anyone new to the hobby.

I don't get it. in the first line you say most are wrong then you say there is no "right" way
If so many on here giving their advice are all wrong where are you with all the expert answers? what makes you above many on here?

[strawberryblonde]

Woohoo, time for me to toss in my two lil cents on this thread. I was going to do it three hours ago, but darn the guy (Eric, I'm looking at YOU) who posted all the links to illustrate this topic. Someone on one of those links has five pages of info on raising cali blackworms in a substrated tank. Soooooo fascinating!!! =)

So here's my take on the general opinion (out there on the web) that SD'ers are elitist snobs who are overly critical and want to scare people away from keeping discus. I found plenty of those types of comments on various forums back in January when I started researching current discus keeping info. I read it all, and then headed straight here to see what all the hullabaloo was about.

And I never looked back once I registered on SD.

What I found here was a wealth of knowledge from some very intelligent folks who talk straight, don't mince words, have good advice and the experience to back up their advice. I was amazed to find so many who are always willing to help anyone who honestly wants help.

Some people here are more direct than others in their manner of typing. Some are middle of the road and others (like myself) are long winded and end up using a lot more virtual space than absolutely necessary in order to say the same thing the more direct folks are saying. It comes down to personal style and good lord, we need ALL three styles on these boards!

I may not be able to keep it short and simple when I type, but I surely do appreciate getting those short, direct, no-nonsense answers when I post a thread!

Turk64 beat me to a reply about how people are in real life, compared to on the web. Bless his heart, he and my husband would have a lovely time jawing in real life. My husband shoots from the hip, is direct and honest on matters that matter and after a 20+ year career in the armed services, he tends to think that expletives aren't just adjectives, they are verbs, nouns and modifiers. Most people who take 5 minutes to actually talk with him and get to know him appreciate his no nonsense approach to life. Those that don't aren't people he cares to know. LOL

I'm a softie. I refuse to sugar coat or lie to anyone about the condition of their fish or the lack of care they are giving their fish, but I'll also go to great lengths to explain how to properly care for the fish and I'm even willing to repeat it more than once if I think they aren't "getting it". That doesn't make me a better person for these forums, just a different type of conversationalist.

My point is that each type of person on these forums serves a purpose since we get all sorts of questions and all types of people here.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, almost forgot to add that I was truly intimidated when I made my first thread on the forums! I sat here thinking I was going to look like an idiot for the questions I asked. Instead, I got a lot of nice answers, made a few quick friends and took the more pointed points (Turk and Warlock, you know who you are) to heart, changed my plans for my tank and have been grateful to them ever since. I have about the healthiest danged discus you ever wanted to see and it's thanks to the guys who were willing to speak in no nonsense words!

[Discus Origins]

I don't get it. in the first line you say most are wrong then you say there is no "right" way
If so many on here giving their advice are all wrong where are you with all the expert answers? what makes you above many on here?

You don't get it Jim? You don't get the difference between giving wrong advice vs not telling people there is only one way to keep discus? Lets see if I can simplify it for you:

wrong advice - you can keep all discus in high ph and hard water
no 'right' way - you don't have to keep discus in only BB tanks

Not sure how those two are even related in topic like you tried to make it sound like but hopefully its clear now. As for me being 'above' many on here, I never said I was better than anybody. I said to treat each other with respect and integrity. Read all my posts, I've never had an attitude or been discouraging to anyone who was asking for advice. And any advice I've given has been something I've learned from making my own mistakes or personally succeeded doing things a certain way. You found a way to have an attitude about that, explain your reasoning.

[jimg]

very simple how I take that. most of the advice you say given on here is wrong. if there is more than one way to keep/care for discus then who is to say what is right and what is wrong. that's how their related. You think saying most on here are giving wrong advice and copying what they heard is treating anyone on here with respect and integrity?
You learned it all and everyone is else is wrong is how I take what you say.
Many on here share what they have learned and many things work for some and not others due to water,food what ever.
what you think you may have learned may work for you but not others. so to say their wrong is bs
I'll make this very simple for you, if you don't like what others post on here, right or wrong in your opinion then go to aquaria central and bs them.

[Discus Origins]

very simple how I take that. most of the advice you say given on here is wrong. if there is more than one way to keep/care for discus then who is to say what is right and what is wrong. that's how their related. You think saying most on here are giving wrong advice and copying what they heard is treating anyone on here with respect and integrity?
You learned it all and everyone is else is wrong is how I take what you say.
Many on here share what they have learned and many things work for some and not others due to water,food what ever.
what you think you may have learned may work for you but not others. so to say their wrong is bs
I'll make this very simple for you, if you don't like what others post on here, right or wrong in your opinion then go to aquaria central and bs them.

Well Jim I guess simple minds work in different ways, you can take whatever you want out of what I say...but all you are doing is putting your own spin on it to make it sound like you have a point. So far all you've done is not contribute a single thing to this post except to try and be argumentative. I can speak your language too Jim, so don't come one here with your 'machine operator' front and act like you know any more than anyone else either. So unless you are saying you know more than me, don't try to BS me. I'll make it simple for you too, if you don't like what I'm saying stop reading it or go 'computer bully' some other putz who's going to be affected by your useless words. You have no idea which posts I'm saying are wrong, if you actually take the time to go thru all the posts I'm sure you'll find a lot that you believe are not correct.


Difference with respect and integrity - I don't go onto the post and call them out and call them an idiot/dummy or whatever you would have done. I just add to the post and say this is how I would do it and maybe they'll get a better result. That's the difference between me and you Jim cuz this is what you do and that's what I do.

I'll stoop down to your level for a min, You mean nothing to me besides a sign on name, don't tell me to go somewhere else. You can stick that up where the sun don't shine cuz you'll never intimidate me. I can tell you that you don't know enough about discus to be talking to me as if YOU are some sort of expert. So stop your BS with me and contribute something positive to the post. Otherwise find a way to say what you want to people face to face, you'll have a different tune when they don't 'type' to respond to your attitude. I'm fine with it either way.

You've turned this thread into some sort of pissing contest between me and you. Maybe that's what the original subject was about, getting less of this crap on here and more of helping the hobby grow.

[mrblah00]

After reading this afternoons replies I remember why I wasn't going to to post to this thread.

+1

[judy]

Judy,

With all due respect to you since I do not mean this in any offensive way of any kind...please believe me.

How can we presume to be the judges of how people behave and what they mean, intention wise when they post? Isn't that what the mods and Al and Ryan are in place for? It has worked well so far and I see no reason why it would stop all of the sudden.

Assuming that your way of comunicating is any better than any one elses makes you look arrogant in my eyes...I am sorry but I am being honest. How can we presume that one way is better than another? Just because we think so?

The only way this all works is if we all trust the people that run this place to keep it civil and keep it running, if we all start recomending to other members how they should or not behave, all we are going to have if flame wars and bickering. It has worked this way since 2002 and I think it will for a much longer time to come.

Rodrigo

I don't think suggesting people be civil is arrogant. Being polite may be a "way of communicating"-- but don't you think being polite ought to be a pretty basic standard that we're all perfectly capable of following? All it is, is speaking to other people the way you'd like them to speak to you. What is so difficult about that concept?
Now, I'll ring off, since I've made my point as clearly as I can.

[roclement]

What I am saying is that ones view of polite or civil can vary from someone else's, your life experiences may have prepared you one way,
Mine some other and so on.
The moderation system here involves multiple people from different walks of life, if they judge it to be appropriate, then we must accept it. If I find a discussion I don't want to be a part off, I just stay away.

Rodrigo

[Keith Perkins]

Paul is like the virtual equivalent to a walking billboard for this site.

From post #36.

The above I'm sure is why Paul started this thread in the first place. Like me, it seems he thinks this is absolutely the best place for people to go to learn about discus and to share discus knowledge. He's making the effort to steer new folks here, he's written a guide for newbies to set up a discus tank, etc., etc., etc. Now maybe everyone on those other forums he referred to as complaining about SD encounters were kooks or quacks, but I doubt it. I mean what are the odds of that being true. So the others that FEEL badly about the way they perceived they were treated here and are posting about it elsewhere are people the forum had a chance to educate and inform that instead got chased away. In my opinion, and I hope dang near everyone's, that's too bad.

So, we're supposed to change our personalities to a phony persona that isn't really who we are?..Nada, my friend........

.....You are getting my polite PC computer ettiquette side

Now some of you are going to think the above quotes are going to lead to me saying Gary is contradicting himself. I'm not, quite the opposite. We all are who we are, but at the same time we should remember where we are when we're sitting at our keyboards. Before this thread I had no idea Gary was actually so much like my United Steelworkers Member father, at least in his younger days, and in a forum like this I shouldn't have. You can be straight with people and tell them their fish is ugly without coming off as being ugly, it's really not that hard.

There's been talk about Al shouldn't change the rules around here etc., I don't think Paul ever intended them to be. Al's rules no doubt were set up to establish certain MINIMUM acceptable standards. Problem is the people who were chased likely never encountered anything that involved violated forum standards. It much more likely was things people had every right to say, but it wasn't the right thing to say or the right way to say it. My guess is Paul was just hoping we all could set our personal bars a little higher than the minimum standards and that the forum would be better for it. If that wasn't his hope, it's mine.