Over-moderation

[Matt0matic]

What is your (plural) opinion of this?

I feel the deleting/editing of threads and post is taking away from an open community who is for the most part just seeking to share or gain knowledge. Without getting into specifics; if someone offers their knowledge (be it postive, negative or otherwise) about a topic why edit it unless it is COMPLETELY outlandish and offers zero help?

I do not like the recent change in direction with the moderation of the forums.

Disclaimer: In no way is this a personal stab at the Mods, you guys have a great site here and thank you for keeping it maintained.

[Matt0matic]

From Al,

Finally, a word on etiquette. This is not a discussion forum. If you wish to purchase or trade, please post. However, if you only wish to comment on the quality of someone else's purchase/trade item or their price, with no intention of buying/trading, please keep it to yourself. These type of posts only sidetrack the thread away from the goal of the original poster - trading or selling their item.

If someone with more experience with discus (or whatever one might be interested in buying) makes some comment on the quality of what is being sold I would be all ears; and I would very much so appreciate the comment. No point in buying a 'melon' if someone can show you it's strengths or weaknesses.

[Second Hand Pat]

Matt, JMO but this place is Al's joint and he runs it the way he sees fit...end of story. Forum rules are posted for all to see.

[ericatdallas]

From Al,


If someone with more experience with discus (or whatever one might be interested in buying) makes some comment on the quality of what is being sold I would be all ears; and I would very much so appreciate the comment. No point in buying a 'melon' if someone can show you it's strengths or weaknesses.

I can't speak for Al, but I can provide my fellow "peasant" point of view and maybe give another perspective ... I think the problem is that now you're specifying who can comment and who cannot. The problem comes in when someone that is not "qualified" to speak to the quality makes a comment and hijacks the thread and sends it spiraling into another direction. This can at times make it hard for people trying to sell.

There's a few problems I see with what or how you stated your comment...
1) How does one know if they're more experienced than you?
2) Now you are dictating who and who cannot comment on these posts? For the sake of fairness, it would make the most sense to block everyone from commenting. Besides, if the mods had to delete the "unqualified" people's comments, then that would be considered over-moderation (right?).
3) There are other forums for the "qualified" people to comment on the quality of your discus. Discus University along with any other forum from beginner to general...
4) Finally, your test of "offering zero help" is very subjective. Now you have furthered burdened the mods again in determining what is helpful and not helpful and that may vary from mod-to-mod. Besides, the person that posted it, may have thought what they said was helpful and you may not.

Matt, JMO but this place is Al's joint and he runs it the way he sees fit...end of story. Forum rules are posted for all to see.

Agreed... IMO, the moderators are pretty lenient w/ the rules. From being on here a while (and frequently), I think a lot of people complain they don't moderate enough. My observation is that the moderators are pretty lenient with the rules (i.e. rules are in placed but not enforced unless it gets really out of hand or is an extreme violation).

Rules are rules and from what I can see, they're not much different here than any other forum regarding any other topic.

[richgrenfell]

Matt, JMO but this place is Al's joint and he runs it the way he sees fit...end of story. Forum rules are posted for all to see.

+1

[YSS]

You should see some other heavily moderated forums. I left a couple of other fish forums because of bunch of controlling freaks. Simply is fine as it is and the mods here in my opinion are very reasonable.

From Al,

Finally, a word on etiquette. This is not a discussion forum. If you wish to purchase or trade, please post. However, if you only wish to comment on the quality of someone else's purchase/trade item or their price, with no intention of buying/trading, please keep it to yourself. These type of posts only sidetrack the thread away from the goal of the original poster - trading or selling their item.

If someone with more experience with discus (or whatever one might be interested in buying) makes some comment on the quality of what is being sold I would be all ears; and I would very much so appreciate the comment. No point in buying a 'melon' if someone can show you it's strengths or weaknesses.

As for the quote above, I believe its because the related thread was for the vendor/sposor feedback. What Al is stating is that you can provide feedback only if you have dealt with the vendor and have first hand experience. I don't see anything wrong with that. We have tons of other sections where we can discuss quality of discus and everything else related to discus. Plenty of heated discussions where there are very little to no moderation unless someone goes completely out of line.

[jlcoop277]

I agree some of the other forums are crazy over moderated. This one is great IMO.
I'm in no way as experienced with discus as a lot of people on here are and if they move or remove a post to keep the info moving in one direction I'm ok with that.

[Larry Bugg]

I stand COMPLETELY behind Al and his moderators decisions. It is not a easy task to create the balance necessary to keep a forum like this running. The only times I have seen them step in and stop a thread is when it has completely gotten out of control and is no longer serving the intended purpose the thread or the forum. This forum has been extremely successful and it is due to the work Al and his staff put into it.

[mlov1022]

I stand COMPLETELY behind Al and his moderators decisions. It is not a easy task to create the balance necessary to keep a forum like this running. The only times I have seen them step in and stop a thread is when it has completely gotten out of control and is no longer serving the intended purpose the thread or the forum. This forum has been extremely successful and it is due to the work Al and his staff put into it.

Well said, +1

[brewmaster15]

I absolutely Love threads like this... I haven't given a good rant now in a while...so apologies in advance.

Every aspect of society has rules that govern the action of how people should act and behave. We may not agree with a set of rules but if we want to participate in that society..we adhere to them or there are consequences...Anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional, IMO. This forum is no different. We have a set of rules in place designed to allow the forum to function smoothly and designed to try to be fair to the majority of members here...If a person breaks those rules, there are consequences.

On SimplyDiscus, we have specific rules for each section that dictate what is acceptable and what is not.... we didn't just pull these rules out of thin air. We developed them over the last 10 years based on trial and error and what works best for this Forum's Model. I believe we have a very lenient system here... and I personally spend hours by pm, email, and phone trying to resolve issues with a soft touch verses a hard hit. I would love for people to self moderate...and most do....when the forum moderates it is because some individuals do not.


Let me be crystal clear.. we have a huge diverse group of people here...and they don't all come from the same countries or walks of life.They all have different ideas as to what the forum should do and what it should be. We try to be everything to everyone, but it is not possible.

If anyone finds the rules here unacceptable...Do yourself and us a favor...Don't log in...No hard feelings on my side of things... one of the reasons I got involved with building this forum was because I didn't like what other forums had to offer and how they did things...My partner Ryan and the core group of mods involved here, felt similarly..and Simplydiscus was born. We did something other than Whine...we saw a perceived problem and tried our best to fix it... I'll go to my grave one day knowing we did a fine job doing so.

Every rule we have and everything we do in the running of this forum is done for a reason...you have the right to accept that or reject it...I personally don't care either way except when someone starts whining about over moderation and censorship ...Over moderation by whose standards...Yours? Joe smith discus expert? Joe smith I have nothing better to do but complain? Joe smith, I'm only concerned with my own beliefs on how Simplydiscus should be run? Do I sound a tad harsh? I've been hearing this rubbish for over 10 years.

Lets talk about what I have seen as facts as far members go here....
1) Members that are basically school bullies in the playground, they get a little experience under their belts and they strut around here like they own the place. They show off what they "know" by slamming others.
2) Members that are dealing with problems at home that use this forum as place to vent..How they act here is often not how they are in real life.
3) Members that believe the forum is overly moderated when they want to say whatever pops into their mind...and are the first to complain when someone else does but they have a problem with
4) Members that come here , not to share in our Discus Community, but to play and stir up trouble...rightly dubbed as trolls.
5) Members that are socially inept...They can't interact without being aggressive, coarse, belligerent, self righteous and self important.
6) Members that feel that in this forum, they have the right to say what they want to who they want, however they want, with no regard for forum Rules,with no respect for the forum management and owners, and with no respect for the vast numbers of people that come here day in and out that think of the forum as home.
7) Members that can be warned repeated to not do something, and yet will push as far past the line as they can.
8)Members that can't accept that we expect civil exchange here even when you disagree
9)Members that stalk other members across threads because they personally don't like them.
10)Members that are childish,immature, and rude. My 8 year old and 10 year old kids have better manners than some here.

If you are one of the 10 types of members above...Odds are you will get moderated at some point...You will also probably get banned at some point...Why? because I absolutely refuse to allow the less than 1% of this forum to detract from the positive experiences of the 99+ % of members that enjoy the site, follow the rules, respect each other and this forum. I and others have put too much time into the forum over the years and will not allow people to trash what we have built here.

And as for the 99% that enjoy this site and appreciate what goes into it...Thank you all! You have my word, as long as I own this place...I will continue to try and create an atmosphere here that is positive, welcoming, enjoyable and informative. I will use what ever tools I have to inorder to do this.

Hope that clears up my views on Forum moderation.

Regards,
Al

[Skip]

come into my HOMESTEAD and i will MODERATE you like if you were my Ginger Step Child!

[Matt0matic]

I can't speak for Al, but I can provide my fellow "peasant" point of view and maybe give another perspective ... I think the problem is that now you're specifying who can comment and who cannot. The problem comes in when someone that is not "qualified" to speak to the quality makes a comment and hijacks the thread and sends it spiraling into another direction. This can at times make it hard for people trying to sell.

There's a few problems I see with what or how you stated your comment...
1) How does one know if they're more experienced than you?
2) Now you are dictating who and who cannot comment on these posts? For the sake of fairness, it would make the most sense to block everyone from commenting. Besides, if the mods had to delete the "unqualified" people's comments, then that would be considered over-moderation (right?).
3) There are other forums for the "qualified" people to comment on the quality of your discus. Discus University along with any other forum from beginner to general...
4) Finally, your test of "offering zero help" is very subjective. Now you have furthered burdened the mods again in determining what is helpful and not helpful and that may vary from mod-to-mod. Besides, the person that posted it, may have thought what they said was helpful and you may not.

In regards to the trading, when buying/selling anything the more information you have on the subject the better you can make your decision; so my perspective is that any information could be good information. This way any comment, qualified or not, could have an influence on a transaction. In the end I think its up to the buyer/seller to decide if the information they come across is worth a grain of salt.

[judy]

I stand COMPLETELY behind Al and his moderators decisions. It is not a easy task to create the balance necessary to keep a forum like this running. The only times I have seen them step in and stop a thread is when it has completely gotten out of control and is no longer serving the intended purpose the thread or the forum. This forum has been extremely successful and it is due to the work Al and his staff put into it.

+1!

[Skip]

I stand COMPLETELY behind Al and his moderators decisions. It is not a easy task to create the balance necessary to keep a forum like this running. The only times I have seen them step in and stop a thread is when it has completely gotten out of control and is no longer serving the intended purpose the thread or the forum. This forum has been extremely successful and it is due to the work Al and his staff put into it.

just don't make jokes about shooting Rabbits!

[Matt0matic]

It is not a easy task to create the balance necessary to keep a forum like this running. The only times I have seen them step in and stop a thread is when it has completely gotten out of control and is no longer serving the intended purpose the thread or the forum. This forum has been extremely successful and it is due to the work Al and his staff put into it.

Well said and I agree completely. And for the most part we non-Mod members cannot see what is happening behind the scene; so unless you read a post one day, come back and recognize that the said post is changed we can never see what is being edited or completely removed.