Over-moderation

[brewmaster15]

Matt,

In regards to the trading, when buying/selling anything the more information you have on the subject the better you can make your decision; so my perspective is that any information could be good information. This way any comment, qualified or not, could have an influence on a transaction. In the end I think its up to the buyer/seller to decide if the information they come across is worth a grain of salt.

There is a tremendous wealth of information here as to learning about quality and discus in general... people need to take the time to educate themselves ahead of time in sections of the forum designed for discussion........ The buy,sell and trade section is not the place on the forum to do that..its no different than the classified sections of the newspaper.. I'm sorry if you feel other wise...but thats how it is.

And for the most part we non-Mod members cannot see what is happening behind the scene; so unless you read a post one day, come back and recognize that the said post is changed we can never see what is being edited or completely removed.

I'm sorry but where in the forum agreement does it say that members are entitled to see the content of posts that break forum rules, or have been removed for reasons that Moderators determined to be justified......The answer is no where.
-al

[Matt0matic]

I absolutely Love threads like this... I haven't given a good rant now in a while...so apologies in advance.

Every aspect of society has rules that govern the action of how people should act and behave. We may not agree with a set of rules but if we want to participate in that society..we adhere to them or there are consequences...Anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional, IMO. This forum is no different. We have a set of rules in place designed to allow the forum to function smoothly and designed to try to be fair to the majority of members here...If a person breaks those rules, there are consequences.

Does the society not have any influence on the rules? Even in dictatorships the people being ruled will, to some degree,influence the governing powers. I'm not trying to change anything via this thread just wanting to get a feel for how to community see's things and like the topic of the subforum, give feedback. After this thread is dead I'll see be here!

On SimplyDiscus, we have specific rules for each section that dictate what is acceptable and what is not.... we didn't just pull these rules out of thin air. We developed them over the last 10 years based on trial and error and what works best for this Forum's Model. I believe we have a very lenient system here... and I personally spend hours by pm, email, and phone trying to resolve issues with a soft touch verses a hard hit. I would love for people to self moderate...and most do....when the forum moderates it is because some individuals
I'm not here to

Let me be crystal clear.. we have a huge diverse group of people here...and they don't all come from the same countries or walks of life.They all have different ideas as to what the forum should do and what it should be. We try to be everything to everyone, but it is not possible.

I guess I just see the moderation happening more-so because I frequent a racing forum "Where the weak are killed and eaten" as a slogan and there is almost zero moderation on the site and it is far more vulgar but its all 'unprocessed' information where here I feel at times the moderators are 'processing'/ interpreting what I'd like to do myself. But the discus culture is not anything like the racing one.

If anyone finds the rules here unacceptable...Do yourself and us a favor...Don't log in...No hard feelings on my side of things... one of the reasons I got involved with building this forum was because I didn't like what other forums had to offer and how they did things...My partner Ryan and the core group of mods involved here, felt similarly..and Simplydiscus was born. We did something other than Whine...we saw a perceived problem and tried our best to fix it... I'll go to my grave one day knowing we did a fine job doing so.

Every rule we have and everything we do in the running of this forum is done for a reason...you have the right to accept that or reject it...I personally don't care either way except when someone starts whining about over moderation and censorship ...Over moderation by whose standards...Yours? Joe smith discus expert? Joe smith I have nothing better to do but complain? Joe smith, I'm only concerned with my own beliefs on how Simplydiscus should be run? Do I sound a tad harsh? I've been hearing this rubbish for over 10 years.

Harsh, not to me. I'd like to see more post with this passion behind them...

Lets talk about what I have seen as facts as far members go here....
1) Members that are basically school bullies in the playground, they get a little experience under their belts and they strut around here like they own the place. They show off what they "know" by slamming others.
2) Members that are dealing with problems at home that use this forum as place to vent..How they act here is often not how they are in real life.
3) Members that believe the forum is overly moderated when they want to say whatever pops into their mind...and are the first to complain when someone else does but they have a problem with
4) Members that come here , not to share in our Discus Community, but to play and stir up trouble...rightly dubbed as trolls.
5) Members that are socially inept...They can't interact without being aggressive, coarse, belligerent, self righteous and self important.
6) Members that feel that in this forum, they have the right to say what they want to who they want, however they want, with no regard for forum Rules,with no respect for the forum management and owners, and with no respect for the vast numbers of people that come here day in and out that think of the forum as home.
7) Members that can be warned repeated to not do something, and yet will push as far past the line as they can.
8)Members that can't accept that we expect civil exchange here even when you disagree
9)Members that stalk other members across threads because they personally don't like them.
10)Members that are childish,immature, and rude. My 8 year old and 10 year old kids have better manners than some here.

If you are one of the 10 types of members above...Odds are you will get moderated at some point...You will also probably get banned at some point...Why? because I absolutely refuse to allow the less than 1% of this forum to detract from the positive experiences of the 99+ % of members that enjoy the site, follow the rules, respect each other and this forum. I and others have put too much time into the forum over the years and will not allow people to trash what we have built here.

Very accurate observation, imo; but I'd assume your kids would be able to identify each of the member types you posted and act accordingly (take what they say with a grain of salt, ignoring the wrong comments, etc). Why can't we? We all have the ability to read what each of us has posted for the duration of our time here at Simply so we can get a great idea on what that persons ideas and intentions are.

And as for the 99% that enjoy this site and appreciate what goes into it...Thank you all! You have my word, as long as I own this place...I will continue to try and create an atmosphere here that is positive, welcoming, enjoyable and informative. I will use what ever tools I have to inorder to do this.

I agree with everything, but your missing "don't get depressed/angry/whatever when your fishing for responses and people don't tell your what your trying to hear." If I want to tell 'Joe' he has an ugly fish and list my reasons, Joe needs to either ignore me because he doesn't like what he hears or look up my previous post to see that I don't know what I'm talking about and move on.

After reading these post I think it's as much parts of the community as it is the Mods editing them... If the people would open their eyes and 'process' the information presented for themselves the Mods wouldn't need to do it for them.

[Harriett]

Matt, JMO but this place is Al's joint and he runs it the way he sees fit...end of story. Forum rules are posted for all to see.

+2
Harriett

[Lenin]

On the subject about reviews of a product or service, there is a rule that we all know, only first hand experience, why/ because these products and services have companies that are willing to sue the site if they see that their name is being drag thru the mud with, that's why it has to be that way, Al doesn't have the time to deal with it.

The rules stated of how you're supposed to act if you cannot in the manner that you have been told you are not welcome here, this is not a public entity, it's a private forum that welcomes those who can act as directed, being here is not a right is a privilige

If Joe didn't ask your opinion on his fish that means your feedback might not be welcome.

[Matt0matic]

Matt,
There is a tremendous wealth of information here as to learning about quality and discus in general... people need to take the time to educate themselves ahead of time in sections of the forum designed for discussion........ The buy,sell and trade section is not the place on the forum to do that..its no different than the classified sections of the newspaper.. I'm sorry if you feel other wise...but thats how it is.

I completely understand "that's how it is" and what I say wont change it. Just to explain myself: if you were looking to buy some widget and someone you know or trust their opinion tells you to pass on that widget wouldn't you take that into consideration. Or the opposite if they gave you a positive review of the widget you'd take it into consideration (although the positive comments don't get edited out of the trade forum). Just my reasoning..

I'm sorry but where in the forum agreement does it say that members are entitled to see the content of posts that break forum rules, or have been removed for reasons that Moderators determined to be justified......The answer is no where.
-al

I think you misunderstood where I was trying to go with that post, I was trying to show how unless you are very observant you will not see the moderation happening on a daily basis; because literally it is there one second and gone the next.

[brewmaster15]

Matt,
LOL...Obviously you have it all worked out, and know the best way to run the forum.

You've obviously experienced far more in your 1 year here than I have in my last 10 years here and all the years elsewhere on discus forums, your 108 posts definetly out gun my 17,000 posts. I am sure you also understand this community and the people in it better than me....where were you 10 years ago man?...you could have saved me so much trouble as I tried to figure out the best way to deal with all the different members, issues and politics.

No worries....you are welcome to your beliefs on how things should be...everyone is entitled to their fantasies...but try making the fantasy a reality someday and maybe you'll understand why we do what we do here..but at this point I think you are being quite a bit naive and petty.....compared to the number of threads posted...most are never a problem.

Regards,
al

[Matt0matic]

LOL...Obviously you have it all worked out, and know the best way to run the forum.

I don't see where you came up with this idea... I have to disagree, but to each his own.

You've obviously experienced far more in your 1 year here than I have in my last 10 years here and all the years elsewhere on discus forums, your 108 posts definetly out gun my 17,000 posts. I am sure you also understand this community and the people in it better than me....where were you 10 years ago man?...you could have saved me so much trouble as I tried to figure out the best way to deal with all the different members, issues and politics.

"Mine is bigger than yours" well congrats to you!

No worries....you are welcome to your beliefs on how things should be...everyone is entitled to their fantasies...but try making the fantasy a reality someday and maybe you'll understand why we do what we do here..but at this point I think you are being quite a bit naive and petty.....compared to the number of threads posted...most are never a problem.

I'll step out of this now... I see I'm of the dissenting opinion. And this is going downhill pretty fast...

[aalbina]

...I'll step out of this now... I see I'm of the dissenting opinion. And this is going downhill pretty fast...

Good call - 16 to 1 on your voting above.

Adam

[Second Hand Pat]

Matt, what Al is saying is he has the experience to backup the way this place is run. Please think and not react. An emotional position is not a good basis for anything.

[roclement]

Just the fact that this thread is still up and being viewed by members, tells you all you need to know about the team here! Al and the crew have been nothing but gracious and fair with members and sponsors here! I know! I have caused or have been involved in a lot of the grief here since day one or two...and I am still around!

Most of the long lasting forums have way more strict rules, and are far more liberal when it comes to banning people and closing threads, and they NEVER take the time to explain and talk to members as the team here does, think I am wrong? Start a thread like this in Reef Central or Harmony Central and see how long it lasts!

Al owns this place and runs it like he sees fit, in my mind, just like a family where disfunctional people don't always agree, and were someone has to make the tought calls when it's needed...I for one am happy it's Al and his team making those calls and not someone like me!

Rodrigo

[ericatdallas]

Does the society not have any influence on the rules? Even in dictatorships the people being ruled will, to some degree,influence the governing powers. I'm not trying to change anything via this thread just wanting to get a feel for how to community see's things and like the topic of the subforum, give feedback. After this thread is dead I'll see be here!

That's capitalism... if what Al is doing is counter to the popular beliefs of the audience, then we wouldn't be here and we would go to some other forum. Success does imply some level of conformity to the "mob".

I guess I just see the moderation happening more-so because I frequent a racing forum "Where the weak are killed and eaten" as a slogan and there is almost zero moderation on the site and it is far more vulgar but its all 'unprocessed' information where here I feel at times the moderators are 'processing'/ interpreting what I'd like to do myself. But the discus culture is not anything like the racing one.

Why would anyone want this? By your definition, the weak are the ones that don't want to argue. Anecdotal evidence and many social studies (team building etc) have actually shown that type A personalities inhibit other personalities who may have expertise and insight to contribute. Type A personalities who aggressively argue a point aren't always right and their personalities are more suited to emergency situations, time dependent decision-making, or making decisions with incomplete/unavailable information. That's not how you want to run a forum that requires technical expertise and experience.

I used to run a BBS (precursor to internet forums via modem) and also ran a BBS-network-forum. "Flame-wars" get really nasty. It divides forums as people take sides. Those things span multiple sites. I've seen by visiting other aquarium sites some inter-animosity between members. How is this productive for the hobby?

come into my HOMESTEAD and i will MODERATE you like if you were my Ginger Step Child!

Bully!

just don't make jokes about shooting Rabbits!

Troll!

Good call - 16 to 1 on your voting above.

When one person tells you something it could be an anomaly, when lots of people tell you something it's probably a trend and something you want to think and worry about. I think the poll shows Al has nothing to worry about.

[ZX10R]

Matt I am sure you had good reasons for this but going against the community here will go over like a!!!!

[phat nguyen]

ZX10R,

OMG.... what the heck is that ?

Perry

[jimmyjoe]

I stand COMPLETELY behind Al and his moderators decisions. It is not a easy task to create the balance necessary to keep a forum like this running. The only times I have seen them step in and stop a thread is when it has completely gotten out of control and is no longer serving the intended purpose the thread or the forum. This forum has been extremely successful and it is due to the work Al and his staff put into it.

Sometimes in the past I have not agreed with some of the people on here including Al's but have sorted out are difference's and I can say now without doubt I agree with all the brewman's rules and decisions. Thanks Al for a great forum for us discus fanatic's to conduct our daily lives here with people like ourselves.........Jim in Ohio

[MostlyDiscus]

Whats intresting is that MOST of us have taken the time to read this post instead of learning more about the hobby we so love. Al has my support 100%. I am sure that if at some point this site is unfair or takes away my rights as a human being I will SIMPLY will not log on. LMAO


Ed