A Tale of Two Sponsors... Discus Origins and HEK Discus

[hekdiscus]

Dear Friends

I'd like to apologize for my absence in the forum, but I was traveling and when I returned I was also very busy with matters behind.

I would also like to inform you that my partnership with Mr. Mark Chen did not work properly, it did not like the quality of my fish, sent in the last load, I did my best, sending fish of excellent quality, but unfortunately he did not like . I would like to ask those who bought the fish if you are satisfied with the quality?

Mark has his own judgment and version for the facts, I can explain here my side of the story. I am an honest person and do not want to create here a controversy with most fights, I think we are adult enough for that.


He says the worst fish I sell to the American market, and the best for Asia. this is not true.
I offer the same fish for both markets, but the choice is up to the importer, not for me to decide what to order., We have fish of different values, some can cost more than $ 100.00 for the fisherman and fish that I pay more expensive and has cost more expensive are sold more expensive it is logical and natural, they come in my company costing over $ 150.00 and are sold expensive, more expensive and are sold faster for fanatics discus.


I decided to stop supplying fish for Mark, (Discus origin)
I just think he is not ready to deal with wild discus, this is the truth.
To import fish you need to get acclimated fish and wait for the fish to adapt and only after a few days is that you can deliver to your customers, Mark hoped that the fish arrived without stress like the pictures in my tank, and this is impossible, the fish were within three days until he gets bags, and should spend at least another 15 days with him, until complete recovery to deliver to customers, but was not made isos. He promised to deliver in the same week of arrival, people were marking the visit to collect the fish that was on your web audience.


And I do not accept work that way it is wrong for any one who understands the transportation of fish know it if someone thinks will make money fast by importing and automatically delivering the fish, this completely wrong,


Who knows Fish knows what I'm talking about, who received the H & K Discus know that we maintain the high quality, just ask who has one of my fish in your tank.

I respect the American public who received me very well here in this forum, I built a good friendship with dozens of people and I know that many are satisfied with my fish.

I will not deceive the public with my fish of low quality and low prices, I have my name to protect.

I was the only vendor to post here the certified sustainable fishery accompanied by the organ of supervision and control of Brazil, I'm the one that works with universities and research with scientists, and to have this activity sustainable for the environment, species, fishermen and companies, it must follow the new philosophy.

Fishing for selling large volumes at low prices will wipe out the species and I will not be part of this cycle wrong.

Who has a fish in the H & K knows that there is a social, environmental and economical to preserve the Amazon, this is the big difference


I show my certificates here, and I doubt others do the same.

I participate in the preservation of the Amazon and its natural resources sustainably, and I will not cooperate with the destruction of our resources


Hudson Crizanto
H&K Wild Discus Brazil

see the documents below:

[hekdiscus]

I will soon announce a new partnership based on quality, we sell fish with the same quality as always, respecting the amazon, fishermen and forest, sell fish that are helping to preserve the Amazon, we will deliver a certificate for each batch of fish traceability and scientific papers to show the seriousness and difference, who has an environmental conscience know what I'm talking about and know will appreciate it.

Best regards

Hudson Crizanto
www.hek.com.br

[Discus-n00b]

I've been happy with all fish I've gotten from you Hudson. All are healthy and color up very well, nice shapes too. Like I told Mark, I've never done business with discus (importing/selling/etc) and I have no idea what went on behind closed doors or the specific reasons behind the split, so I have no right to comment on that side of things. But being the buyer of fish yours have never personally let me down. Maybe I don't know what to look for specifically, but I know what looks nice to me and I know the basics. Having had some of your fish for 10 months now I know it takes a while for them to show their full potential. I take what I can get in the US, the market hasn't been well represented here for a while with wilds and I respect those that try like Mark and Hans. Maybe that means buying wilds from someone else, but I'm SO glad I got some of yours when I had the chance.

I've been a fan of yours and your fish for a while now Hudson you know that. You are always open and honest and honestly you do the best job taking pics and video of your fish and their habitat to show all of us. Always sad to see your fish not being brought into the states, I hope to see them here again in the future. You set the bar high IMO, and I always look forward to posts in this thread.

[YSS]

I own total of 8 of your fish, Hudson. All from Hans last year. They are all very nice except for one that I paid $80. I guess one of those lesser quality fish, but still a good deal for $80. I guess you get what you pay for. Good luck with your venture in the US. I agree that a market for the very top quality fish is very small in the US. I ordered a few of your angels through Mark. I hope they are just as nice as the high quality discus that you've provided.

[hekdiscus]

I own total of 8 of your fish, Hudson. All from Hans last year. They are all very nice except for one that I paid $80. I guess one of those lesser quality fish, but still a good deal for $80. I guess you get what you pay for. Good luck with your venture in the US. I agree that a market for the very top quality fish is very small in the US. I ordered a few of your angels through Mark. I hope they are just as nice as the high quality discus that you've provided.

I've been happy with all fish I've gotten from you Hudson. All are healthy and color up very well, nice shapes too. Like I told Mark, I've never done business with discus (importing/selling/etc) and I have no idea what went on behind closed doors or the specific reasons behind the split, so I have no right to comment on that side of things. But being the buyer of fish yours have never personally let me down. Maybe I don't know what to look for specifically, but I know what looks nice to me and I know the basics. Having had some of your fish for 10 months now I know it takes a while for them to show their full potential. I take what I can get in the US, the market hasn't been well represented here for a while with wilds and I respect those that try like Mark and Hans. Maybe that means buying wilds from someone else, but I'm SO glad I got some of yours when I had the chance.

I've been a fan of yours and your fish for a while now Hudson you know that. You are always open and honest and honestly you do the best job taking pics and video of your fish and their habitat to show all of us. Always sad to see your fish not being brought into the states, I hope to see them here again in the future. You set the bar high IMO, and I always look forward to posts in this thread.

Dear Friend, I thank all of you to participate in dedication of my post, I'm happy when I see a tank cared for with love and dedication as your case Discus-n00b, it is gratifying to see that people like you have love for fish and well take care, that my friend is priceless ,You are an example of a hobbyist who loves first and foremost hobby , Your post with the details of your tank Awaken the attention of people around the world, even in China I have seen people with pictures of your aquarium.

Keep doing your best my friend

Hudson

[hekdiscus]

I own total of 8 of your fish, Hudson. All from Hans last year. They are all very nice except for one that I paid $80. I guess one of those lesser quality fish, but still a good deal for $80. I guess you get what you pay for. Good luck with your venture in the US. I agree that a market for the very top quality fish is very small in the US. I ordered a few of your angels through Mark. I hope they are just as nice as the high quality discus that you've provided.

Dear YSS

I also could not leave to thank you and I know qu is also evokes a dedicated hobbyist and I'm sure that also takes care of his discus perfectly, do not worry I'm taking care of the angels in quarantine to send to Mark with total quality, first of all the satisfaction of my clients is always first, and I'm sure anyone who owns one of my fish has no regrets behind them there is a beautiful story of dedication and sustainable use of natural resources, a serious work.

Hudson Crizanto

[Discus Origins]

Dear Friends

I'd like to apologize for my absence in the forum, but I was traveling and when I returned I was also very busy with matters behind.

I would also like to inform you that my partnership with Mr. Mark Chen did not work properly, it did not like the quality of my fish, sent in the last load, I did my best, sending fish of excellent quality, but unfortunately he did not like . I would like to ask those who bought the fish if you are satisfied with the quality?

Mark has his own judgment and version for the facts, I can explain here my side of the story. I am an honest person and do not want to create here a controversy with most fights, I think we are adult enough for that.


He says the worst fish I sell to the American market, and the best for Asia. this is not true.
I offer the same fish for both markets, but the choice is up to the importer, not for me to decide what to order., We have fish of different values, some can cost more than $ 100.00 for the fisherman and fish that I pay more expensive and has cost more expensive are sold more expensive it is logical and natural, they come in my company costing over $ 150.00 and are sold expensive, more expensive and are sold faster for fanatics discus.


I decided to stop supplying fish for Mark, (Discus origin)
I just think he is not ready to deal with wild discus, this is the truth.
To import fish you need to get acclimated fish and wait for the fish to adapt and only after a few days is that you can deliver to your customers, Mark hoped that the fish arrived without stress like the pictures in my tank, and this is impossible, the fish were within three days until he gets bags, and should spend at least another 15 days with him, until complete recovery to deliver to customers, but was not made isos. He promised to deliver in the same week of arrival, people were marking the visit to collect the fish that was on your web audience.


And I do not accept work that way it is wrong for any one who understands the transportation of fish know it if someone thinks will make money fast by importing and automatically delivering the fish, this completely wrong,


Who knows Fish knows what I'm talking about, who received the H & K Discus know that we maintain the high quality, just ask who has one of my fish in your tank.

I respect the American public who received me very well here in this forum, I built a good friendship with dozens of people and I know that many are satisfied with my fish.

I will not deceive the public with my fish of low quality and low prices, I have my name to protect.

I was the only vendor to post here the certified sustainable fishery accompanied by the organ of supervision and control of Brazil, I'm the one that works with universities and research with scientists, and to have this activity sustainable for the environment, species, fishermen and companies, it must follow the new philosophy.

Fishing for selling large volumes at low prices will wipe out the species and I will not be part of this cycle wrong.

Who has a fish in the H & K knows that there is a social, environmental and economical to preserve the Amazon, this is the big difference


I show my certificates here, and I doubt others do the same.

I participate in the preservation of the Amazon and its natural resources sustainably, and I will not cooperate with the destruction of our resources


Hudson Crizanto
H&K Wild Discus Brazil

see the documents below:

Dear Hudson,

I appreciate the opportunity to work with you, I am sorry you feel this way and I wish you good luck with the next supplier for you in the US. But I do want to clarify a few of your points since you posted this to a wide audience:

'He says the worst fish I sell to the American market, and the best for Asia. this is not true.
I offer the same fish for both markets, but the choice is up to the importer, not for me to decide what to order., We have fish of different values, some can cost more than $ 100.00 for the fisherman and fish that I pay more expensive and has cost more expensive are sold more expensive it is logical and natural, they come in my company costing over $ 150.00 and are sold expensive, more expensive and are sold faster for fanatics discus.'

Offer and ship is not the same thing. This does not mean you send the same fish to US and Asia/Europe, it mean you ship $500-700 quality fish to Asia and $150-300 to US. You promise me you were sending me your best fish, then when I complained about quality you said I needed to pay 30-50% more for better fish?

'I just think he is not ready to deal with wild discus, this is the truth.'

I have been importing fish since 1996, kept wild discus off and on for over 15 years, I also have bred wild discus. I personally have fish from WBSabby, Hudson and Santarem thru different sources and seen the differences...but I guess I could still be new at this


'To import fish you need to get acclimated fish and wait for the fish to adapt and only after a few days is that you can deliver to your customers, Mark hoped that the fish arrived without stress like the pictures in my tank, and this is impossible, the fish were within three days until he gets bags, and should spend at least another 15 days with him, until complete recovery to deliver to customers, but was not made isos. He promised to deliver in the same week of arrival, people were marking the visit to collect the fish that was on your web audience. And I do not accept work that way it is wrong for any one who understands the transportation of fish know it if someone thinks will make money fast by importing and automatically delivering the fish, this completely wrong'

You speak of acclimation to bring out quality...I will only say no amount of time will repair broken stress bars, different sizes and bad shape. The only customers to receive their fish within 3 days were 2 people who wanted to come see the facility and pick out their own fish. They were aware the fish would still be stressed. All other orders were acclimated for 14 days before shipping. If I was in this to make money fast I would not have invested $30k in a warehouse facility.

Hudson, I have not posted anything negative about you regarding our business partnership. I will continue to act professional and only clarify the points above and not say anything more. We have one final shipment of angels that you have agreed to send in good faith for the customers who ordered and I also have some credit owed for DOAs and defective fish. I would hope that you stand by your word and complete our last transaction.

[hekdiscus]

Why you should buy a fish quarantine?
look at my analysis of feces of the fish are in quarantine, that is what we do in order to ensure the best quality, only after detecting any parasites or worms is that medicated our fish, with the guidance of our veterinarian. Rodrigo, I need your help, please , translate the contents of this laboratory test results for everyone to understand how to work correctly





Hudson

[Larry Bugg]

Hudson,
I had no intention of posting my thoughts or impressions of the group of Wild discus Mark imported from you. In fact, when I made the trip to Mark's place he specificially asked me to not share pubilically what I thought. He felt it was best to let you and him work out your differences and keep it from becoming public. He talked with everyone who had ordered to apprise them of what he thought of the shipment and thought it best to leave it at that. He thought it would be unprofessional to air his issues in public.

Since you brought it up and have asked for those who received wilds from the shipment to speak up I think it is only fair that I do so. You statements make it sound as if Mark is off base and too critical. It also sounds like you are saying Mark doesn't understand Wilds. I have the upmost respect for Mark and I know his intentions were to bring better quality wilds to the US then we normally receive. Mark has been keeping and breeding Wilds for a long time now and he has a eye for quality. I was pleased that he was going to be importing wilds because I felt I would recieve what I was looking for.

When I arrived at Mark's place my initial reaction and response to him was that what I was seeing were not the same discus that I saw in your videos. I am well aware that it takes wilds a much longer period of time to settle in than it does domestics and I'm sure this had some to do with that initial reaction, but not all. Because I had the opportunity to drive and get my wilds in person, I saw the entire shipment that had survived the shipping problems. This gives me the abiltiy to comment not ony on the wilds I received but also the whole shipment. Because I was able to pick my fish from the entire shipment I was able to choose the best of them all. For this reason I am pretty happy with the discus I recieved. Of the 5 I believe that 4 will turn out to be really nice. The 5th one has poor shape but I think the color will end up being quite nice. Two of the ones I received were not what I would consider as large but more of a medium size. Keep in mind that I was first to choose so mine were the best. Here are some of issues that I noticed with the shipment. The entire shipment was suppose to be large but quite a few appeared to be mediums. Of all the Discus that were shipped as Royals I only thought 4 of them measured up to my expectations. One of the two royals I received will probably turn out to be a royal but the striations were quite faint. Some of the others that were suppose to be royals just didn't look to have the potential even after they settle in. Several did not have the shape I thought discus of this quality should have. One of the discus had a very short gill plate and there was one that looked like it had been bitten by a piranha, the wound was healed but the scaring was there. Several of the discus in the shipment had broken stress bars.

Again, this is just my personal impression which you asked for. I know that Mark discussed each of these issues with you and sent you pictures of what his issues were. I'm dissappointed that it has come to this end but I do wish you the best.

My expectation was that the entire shipment would be of the same quality and that just wasn't what I saw.

[hekdiscus]

Dear Hudson,

I appreciate the opportunity to work with you, I am sorry you feel this way and I wish you good luck with the next supplier for you in the US. But I do want to clarify a few of your points since you posted this to a wide audience:

'He says the worst fish I sell to the American market, and the best for Asia. this is not true.
I offer the same fish for both markets, but the choice is up to the importer, not for me to decide what to order., We have fish of different values, some can cost more than $ 100.00 for the fisherman and fish that I pay more expensive and has cost more expensive are sold more expensive it is logical and natural, they come in my company costing over $ 150.00 and are sold expensive, more expensive and are sold faster for fanatics discus.'

Offer and ship is not the same thing. This does not mean you send the same fish to US and Asia/Europe, it mean you ship $500-700 quality fish to Asia and $150-300 to US. You promise me you were sending me your best fish, then when I complained about quality you said I needed to pay 30-50% more for better fish?

'I just think he is not ready to deal with wild discus, this is the truth.'

I have been importing fish since 1996, kept wild discus off and on for over 15 years, I also have bred wild discus. I personally have fish from WBSabby, Hudson and Santarem thru different sources and seen the differences...but I guess I could still be new at this


'To import fish you need to get acclimated fish and wait for the fish to adapt and only after a few days is that you can deliver to your customers, Mark hoped that the fish arrived without stress like the pictures in my tank, and this is impossible, the fish were within three days until he gets bags, and should spend at least another 15 days with him, until complete recovery to deliver to customers, but was not made isos. He promised to deliver in the same week of arrival, people were marking the visit to collect the fish that was on your web audience. And I do not accept work that way it is wrong for any one who understands the transportation of fish know it if someone thinks will make money fast by importing and automatically delivering the fish, this completely wrong'

You speak of acclimation to bring out quality...I will only say no amount of time will repair broken stress bars, different sizes and bad shape. The only customers to receive their fish within 3 days were 2 people who wanted to come see the facility and pick out their own fish. They were aware the fish would still be stressed. All other orders were acclimated for 14 days before shipping. If I was in this to make money fast I would not have invested $30k in a warehouse facility.

Hudson, I have not posted anything negative about you regarding our business partnership. I will continue to act professional and only clarify the points above and not say anything more. We have one final shipment of angels that you have agreed to send in good faith for the customers who ordered and I also have some credit owed for DOAs and defective fish. I would hope that you stand by your word and complete our last transaction.

Mark.

Mark, what you have to learn is to be humble, so you earn more, I'm not the best nor the biggest, but I try to do my best, and you have success because only one who comes here to talk something, I have no one else unhappy, that's a good sign from my point of view.

even though you are a beginner I respect and know that in time you will learn more .... And I wish all luck in the world.

I will not even your post, post and try to prove anything, you're a large company, traditional and old, no need to explain. and not learn anything, you're the guy ......
but I can decide, and I decided not to sell my fish to you, that was my choice.

I'm not going to disrespect the people here that this space visit me and enjoy my work and they know how much I am honest, and who also know my fish, and do not need any proof, I need not report to my audience, my audience is smart enough to know what happened, here we are not in a classroom of children or adolescents, I believe we are among adults.
I hope not to continue with this disrespect for participants simplydiscus forum, because this space dozens of people visit daily and seek new and interesting subjects, I'm not going to continue fighting any child.

Hudson Crizanto

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm at work on the moment but will state that I was also there with Larry and share the same observations that Larry posted.

[hekdiscus]

Hudson,
I had no intention of posting my thoughts or impressions of the group of Wild discus Mark imported from you. In fact, when I made the trip to Mark's place he specificially asked me to not share pubilically what I thought. He felt it was best to let you and him work out your differences and keep it from becoming public. He talked with everyone who had ordered to apprise them of what he thought of the shipment and thought it best to leave it at that. He thought it would be unprofessional to air his issues in public.

Since you brought it up and have asked for those who received wilds from the shipment to speak up I think it is only fair that I do so. You statements make it sound as if Mark is off base and too critical. It also sounds like you are saying Mark doesn't understand Wilds. I have the upmost respect for Mark and I know his intentions were to bring better quality wilds to the US then we normally receive. Mark has been keeping and breeding Wilds for a long time now and he has a eye for quality. I was pleased that he was going to be importing wilds because I felt I would recieve what I was looking for.

When I arrived at Mark's place my initial reaction and response to him was that what I was seeing were not the same discus that I saw in your videos. I am well aware that it takes wilds a much longer period of time to settle in than it does domestics and I'm sure this had some to do with that initial reaction, but not all. Because I had the opportunity to drive and get my wilds in person, I saw the entire shipment that had survived the shipping problems. This gives me the abiltiy to comment not ony on the wilds I received but also the whole shipment. Because I was able to pick my fish from the entire shipment I was able to choose the best of them all. For this reason I am pretty happy with the discus I recieved. Of the 5 I believe that 4 will turn out to be really nice. The 5th one has poor shape but I think the color will end up being quite nice. Two of the ones I received were not what I would consider as large but more of a medium size. Keep in mind that I was first to choose so mine were the best. Here are some of issues that I noticed with the shipment. The entire shipment was suppose to be large but quite a few appeared to be mediums. Of all the Discus that were shipped as Royals I only thought 4 of them measured up to my expectations. One of the two royals I received will probably turn out to be a royal but the striations were quite faint. Some of the others that were suppose to be royals just didn't look to have the potential even after they settle in. Several did not have the shape I thought discus of this quality should have. One of the discus had a very short gill plate and there was one that looked like it had been bitten by a piranha, the wound was healed but the scaring was there. Several of the discus in the shipment had broken stress bars.

Again, this is just my personal impression which you asked for. I know that Mark discussed each of these issues with you and sent you pictures of what his issues were. I'm dissappointed that it has come to this end but I do wish you the best.

My expectation was that the entire shipment would be of the same quality and that just wasn't what I saw.

Dear Lary.

Discus improperly handled by the airline and after 03 days in the bags need extra care, and bars are the stress in my videos you will not see the bars because they are without stress

I gave the option to donate the fish to the forum and I return the money with all costs for him, do not understand why he chose to stay with the fish without quality?? why?

[hekdiscus]

I'm at work on the moment but will state that I was also there with Larry and share the same observations that Larry posted.

Dear Friends eggs have been broken, no good talking about who is right or wrong, I tried to support and restore the two fish that arrived dead fish and the other defective in the next shipment no cost to him, but it was not possible, he preferred to use words arrogant and do not build a good business relationship, just destroy it, I have my point of view that he is a beginner, it is his view that my fish are all crap and without quality, and it does not will change.

.

We have no way back

I apologize to everyone for that

[Discus-n00b]

And I wanted to also state that I did not get the chance to drive to Mark's and see the fish in person when they first came in, Mark held them an extra week for me (very thankful for that), so mine came in already looking better then what Pat told me others looked like.

But still I found mine to be what I wanted. Some apparently were smaller then expected but I told Mark size isn't as important as color potential or things like shape to me.

[Discus Origins]

Dear Lary.

Discus improperly handled by the airline and after 03 days in the bags need extra care, and bars are the stress in my videos you will not see the bars because they are without stress

I gave the option to donate the fish to the forum and I return the money with all costs for him, do not understand why he chose to stay with the fish without quality?? why?

Oh dear Hudson, you say no more discussion, yet you want to continue to speak negatively.

Why? Because as I told you, I did not want my money back....I want quality fish to sell. I have a business with rent, cost of tanks, utilities, employees. I pay you money, you give me same money back, how does a business survive with zero profit?? I sell the fish because I explained to the customers and they agree to accept the fish, not because the were top quality, but they were better quality than any other local vendor.

You agree now they were bad and you wanted them donated to forum? Why so you look like the good guy in this and leave me looking like the bad person? That is your idea of a good partnership? Please, hope the public is more educated than to think you are an angel.

You are now on possible your 3rd supplier for US. Hans no longer does business with you, HIS decision. You decided not to ship me fish AFTER I gave you second chance to make things right. You realized that you couldn't sneak anymore bad fish past me so you didn't want to do another shipment. Why did you send me email to 'start over new' when you returned from Europe only to come back and and go back on your word and change your mind? Lets make sure everyone knows the story.

I hope that you will practice some humility and not continue to post on this subject. I have every single email saved between us from 2 months before the shipment when you promised everything to now when you blame everything on me. I did not start this and only respond to what you post.

Dear Friends eggs have been broken, no good talking about who is right or wrong, I tried to support and restore the two fish that arrived dead fish and the other defective in the next shipment no cost to him, but it was not possible, he preferred to use words arrogant and do not build a good business relationship, just destroy it, I have my point of view that he is a beginner, it is his view that my fish are all crap and without quality, and it does not will change.

Hudson, how was next shipment going to happen if you decided not to ship me fish? That is my question.....and how did I receive defective fish if you only send top quality?