Trying out high heat treatment...

[ExReefer]

As some of you may have read in my aging water thread, I had one Piwow that went off food. I've performed two five day courses of Metro at 400-500mg per day with a week between courses. I've got him eating live blackworms, but he won't touch any other foods. He used to eat everything I threw in the tank so I know something must still be bothering him. My other Piwow's are doing great and attacking food ever since I started aging my water for WC's (something I need to do in the cold weather months).

So, after lots of frustration, I'm out of ideas. I'm going to try 96 deg. for five full days. I just don't know if I should bother feeding him live blackworms throughout the process to keep his strength up. The tank is 93 at the momement it should reach 96 by the end of the day. I'm trying to slowly raise the temp. His fins are errect and color is normal. Eye color is still a candy apple red. I just can't figure out where his appetite went. I've had other discus eating like pigs within a week after a metro treatement, but not this guy.

What do you think? Should I feed him during the high heat treatment? I have no filter in the hospital tank was planning daily 50% WC's. If he eats, the water will foul up quickly. Bacteria loves heat.

[jimg]

I have had a few discus that were always poor eaters, mostly adult wilds. metro can sometimes, not that I have found but others have claimed it will throw some off food. Also any signs of flukes? Gills held closed or wide open?
Many times parasite can damage the organs.
Imo I would wait and keep an eye on gills and feces.

[ExReefer]

I've been waiting. He's been off metro for two weeks. His poop looks normal, but only because he's eating live blackworms. Even when he eats those, he's not attacking them like he used to. He'll eat a few and stop feeding. His behavior within the group is not normal. At times he'll swim with the group, but often times he's off to one side of the tank near the bottom while the others are pacing the front glass. Breathing is normal and I don't suspect flukes. If the tank had flukes, I think my other discus would show signs. Check out my water aging thread where I discuss microbubbles causing fluke like symptoms. Those symptoms went away when I starting aging my water.

[YSS]

Don't feed while in heat treatment. I've never had issues because I didn't feed the fish, but by the time I treat, the fish was not really eating, so I never bothered to feed the fish. I am about to treat one of my wild adults with heat. He too has gotten very picky with food. Good luck! How big is your hospital tank?

[jimg]

Maybe consider prazi powder it could help eliminate 2 possibles, flukes or tape worm.
Heat is usually for flagellates which metro should have gotten as indicated with dark feces.

[ExReefer]

Metro should have worked, but the high heat will make certain of it. If he eats live blackworms throughout the heat treatment then he's no worse off after the treatment.

Are tapeworms really that common? I think there are a good deal of discus owners that confuse long, stringy feces with tapeworms.

[YSS]

Metro never worked for me, but heat always have. May be you can ask Hans, but not sure feeding during heat treatment is such a good idea.

[laupao]

I too have had experience 1 or 2 discus out of the group as aggressive eaters, then slowly becoming strange. Eats a few worms from my hand with no gusto..but the others are hitting the food hard. grabbing the worms and shaking violently to get it loose from the cubes.... i just finished up the metro treatment with 92....no more metro, but my tank is 90...

so far, the 2 in questions are a bit better than before..but they can be timid when the other discus are hitting the food hard...the 2 looks intimidated even though there are no chasing around is happening.

could this be a tapeworm thing? i don't have a microscope

[jimg]

Metro should have worked, but the high heat will make certain of it. If he eats live blackworms throughout the heat treatment then he's no worse off after the treatment.

Are tapeworms really that common? I think there are a good deal of discus owners that confuse long, stringy feces with tapeworms.

I have never had tapeworms but they show up sometimes right after people use prazi. my idea with the prazi is to try to eliminate 2 off the list of guesses and it's safe and fairly cheap. so is warmer water I guess! worth a shot without any other symptoms

[ExReefer]

jimg - the prazi is not a bad idea, but not sure I want to add the in conjunction with the high heat. I could do it afterwards if the high heat does not work.

[jimg]

I too have had experience 1 or 2 discus out of the group as aggressive eaters, then slowly becoming strange. Eats a few worms from my hand with no gusto..but the others are hitting the food hard. grabbing the worms and shaking violently to get it loose from the cubes.... i just finished up the metro treatment with 92....no more metro, but my tank is 90...

so far, the 2 in questions are a bit better than before..but they can be timid when the other discus are hitting the food hard...the 2 looks intimidated even though there are no chasing around is happening.

could this be a tapeworm thing? i don't have a microscope

If they improve with metro then most likely it was flagellates/minor bacterial. Could be many things. a scope is helpful but most of the time we will never see any thing or most of us wouldn't know things if we were staring at them. A lot of times too by the time we see white/clear feces it's too late anyway, the parasites get into their systems and damage them. then there's the belief they have parasites all the time, it's when something else happens the parasites multiply and are blamed for the whole sickness when many times you have to look for what other factors may have led to poorer health to begin with. most of the time it's any ones guess we just try to help by what is most common.
we all hear of flukes flagellates worms etc but I have sent fish and samples to pathologists and I get told there were things I had no idea existed.
as for tapeworms they are not hard to id

[laupao]

if there are tapeworms in the discus, will it definitely be seen in the tank, bottom of the tank or hanging out of the discus anus?


i thought i read somewhere that sometimes there don't appear to be any evidence oh tape until a prazi treatment is done..then it the tape would come out

[jimg]

if there are tapeworms in the discus, will it definitely be seen in the tank, bottom of the tank or hanging out of the discus anus?


i thought i read somewhere that sometimes there don't appear to be any evidence oh tape until a prazi treatment is done..then it the tape would come out

That is what I understand too, like I said I never had them ....yet!

[ShinShin]

Sometimes tapeworms shed some of their segs, which are cases of eggs, but the live worm remains inside. If a discus has tapeworms they eat like pigs, feeding themselves and the tapeworms. You are better off not never feeding live blackworms. Every breeder/importer that feeds live blackworms that I have purchased fish from has at some time or other sent me discus with tapeworms amonst other bugs, including the blackworm King (from years back).

Mat

[TURQ64]

Sometimes tapeworms shed some of their segs, which are cases of eggs, but the live worm remains inside. If a discus has tapeworms they eat like pigs, feeding themselves and the tapeworms. You are better off not never feeding live blackworms. Every breeder/importer that feeds live blackworms that I have purchased fish from has at some time or other sent me discus with tapeworms amonst other bugs, including the blackworm King (from years back).

Mat

+1