Frozen Blackworms and your Discus

[Second Hand Pat]

My Ph is 7.8 and Hardness is about 160 ppm.

[DanCBW]

Very seldom do I ever post on a thread that is about the pros and cons or the good
and bad of Blackworms. I'm a firm believer of going with what your comfortable with.
We don't push them, as a family business we do try to offer the best product and service we possibly can.
Ultimately the Hobbyists and end users are who decide wether we stay in business or not. All based on their experiences with our product or our service. All Forums have a lot of old and new Hobbyist/Members. They come and go also.

Briefly about what we do, numbers wise. To give an idea of how many lbs the USA consumed this past year. Remember there are only two of us in the country, we're both close to each other in volume. Take what I do and double that. We've been doing this for maybe 25-28 years now. I ship a low of 1200 to a high of 1600 lbs a week, have done this for years. So apx 70,000 lbs in 2010. Double that with the two Farms.
If they were deadly we would have wiped out a lot of the tropical fish in this country.
Its just another way to look at it.

Below is a partial list of Aquariums & Zoos, State & USFW Hatcheries and Universities that we shipped to this past year. Not to mention major Drug Companies that I can't name or the Live that I ship to Malaysia and Europe. Not to diminish our Hobby investments, the list below have 100's of thousands of $$ if not millions invested in their projects, research and who knows what, that Blackworms have some small part of.
Their comfortable enough to use Live Blackworms.

Sorry for the long post and everyone try to have a great 2012.
thanks from all of us.

Dan, Jennifer, Amanda, Elaine and the Farm Crew


Albuquerque Aquarium
Audubon Aquarium of the Americas
Chicago Zoological Society/Brookfield Zoo
Cincinnati Zoo
Cleveland Metro parks Zoo
Columbus Zoo and Aquarium
Fort Wayne Zoological Society
Fort Worth Zoo
Georgia Aquarium
Jacksonville Zoological Society, Inc.
Maryland Zoo in Baltimore
Monterey Bay Aquarium
NC Aquarium Roanoke Island
Oklahoma City Zoo
Philadelphia Zoo
Pittsburgh Zoo & PPG AQ.
Riverbank Zoo & Garden
Saint Louis Zoo
San Antonio Zoo
Sedgwick County Zoo
Tennessee Aquarium
Virginia Marine Science Museum


US Army Corps of Engineers
USFW Willow Beach
USFW Greers Ferry NFH
USFW Mammoth Spring
USFW National Conservation Training Center
USFW San Marcos
USFW Warm Springs Hatchery
Uvalde Fish Hatchery
Alabama Aquatic Bio diversity
California Dept. of Fish and Game
Chattahoochee NFH
Colorado Division of Wildlife
Conservation Fisheries Inc
David White/USGS
Dexter National Fish Hatchery
Edenton National Fish Hatchery
Hancock Biological Station
Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife
Shepherd of the Hills Hatchery
Virginia Dept. of Game & Inland Fisheries


Arizona State University
Belmont University,Biology Dept
Bowling Green State University
California State Univ. Fullerton
Cape Breton University
Carnegie Institute of Washington
Carolina Biological
Clark University
Columbia Environmental Research Center
Creighton University
Eastern Illinois University
Harvard Medical School,Dept of Genetics
Georgia Institute of Technology
Humboldt State University
Indiana University
Kennedy Krieger Institute
Johns Hopkins University
McGill University
McMaster University, Dept of Biology
Muhlenberg College
Minot State University
Mississippi State University
Dept. of Wildlife & Fisheries
Missouri State University
New Mexico State University/Dept. of Biol
Ottawa Hospital
Penn State University (Biology Dept.)
Southern Illinois University
St. Lawrence university
Stanford University,CEE Dept.
Texas A & M University
Texas State University at San Marcos
UCLA Dept. of Ecology & Evol Biology
Univ of Maryland, Baltimore
Univ. of Miami, RSMAS
Univ of Texas at El Paso
Univ. of Florida, The Whitney Laboratory
Univ. of South Carolina
Univ. of Utah/Cardiology Div.
University of Arkansas, Pine Bluff
University of Ca. @ Berkeley
University of California Riverside
University of Colorado at Colorado Spring
University of Dayton Biology Dept.
University of Delaware
University of Florida, Tropical Aquacult
University of Florida/Dept. of Zoology
University of Guelph
University of Mary Washington
University of Maryland/College park
University of Memphis
University of Michigan Biological Station
University of Minnesota Duluth
University Of Nebraska
University of New Mexico
University of Oklahoma
University of Ottawa
University of Saskatchewan
University of Texas A & M
University of Texas at Austin
Section of Neurobiology
University of Texas
HEALTH SCIENCE CENTER AT SAN ANTONIO
University of Utah
University of Virginia
University of Washington
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
University of Wisconsin/River Falls
Vanderbilt University Med Center
Washington University
West Virginia University

[Discus Origins]

Wow, very impressive list there Dan! I guess if its good enough for them I'll keep on using it

Not trying to steer hobbyists one way or the other either, I myself prefer frozen or live over dried foods, always have. Go with your gut, if you feel unsafe then don't feed the fish worms. If your fish love them and have had no problems then keep using worms.

My water parameters: ph 6.0, hardness 60ppm

[roclement]

I feed and recomend Dan's worms in all it's forms, and have for years. Currently my personal fish are fed frozen and freeze dried worms daily.

Rodrigo

[seanyuki]

Just me.....when feeding FBW,FBS,homemade frozen foods.flakes.pellets.FDBW etc......I switched off all the filters for 10-15 minutes so no junks enter the filters to pollute the water.......just my 2 cents.

[YSS]

Whether it's a myth or a proven fact, many reputable and well known discus breeders and experts around the world stated that feeding live blackworms to their discus is a gamble and a lot of them don't even go near the blackworms. This was the reason why I never even considered feeding my discus live blackworms. However, I started feeding freezed dried blackworms to my discus about two years ago because I was comfortable with the fact that freeze dried worms would not have any bad stuff in them. Never had any issues. Then, I started reading about frozen blackworms and how the processing of the worms get rid of any nasties in the worms and got so many positive reviews here, I decided to give it a shot. Yes, my fish love the frozen worms. They all go nuts for them. Then one fish expelled a long segmented and clear poop. I did not suspect the food at all until someone asked. Then, I thought, I started feeding frozen worms a few weeks ago. Four more fish pooped similar looking poop within a few weeks and two stopped eating. One didn't eat for a day, but now eating well again. The other one is still eating well. And then, when I saw ZX10R's post and saw a couple of more folks having similar issues, I thought this was, at least, worth looking in to. Now, we have a few more folks who have experienced similar things with their discus. I am still not saying the worms had some bad stuff in them, but I am thinking there may a relationship whether it's a combination of things or what. I don't know. It is possible that the worms may not cause any visible harm to some fish, but the same worms may to other fish. All I know is that there are few here who stated in this thread they were having similar issues and there are more who didn't post in this thread but are having similar issues. Also, discus are sensitive fish that would be affected by bugs and bad things when the same bad things don't have any negative effects on other fish. I just want to gather some more info so I can make an informed decision for my fish.

[Moon]

I wonder if there is any link between the water parameters and the issues being seen with feeding frozen blackworms. For instance, people with hard water and higher pH are experiencing issues vs. people with softer and lower pH water or vice versa. Just wondering ....

My ph 8.2 and solid rock water.

[PleiadesSTi]

Whether it's a myth or a proven fact, many reputable and well known discus breeders and experts around the world stated that feeding live blackworms to their discus is a gamble and a lot of them don't even go near the blackworms. This was the reason why I never even considered feeding my discus live blackworms. However, I started feeding freezed dried blackworms to my discus about two years ago because I was comfortable with the fact that freeze dried worms would not have any bad stuff in them. Never had any issues. Then, I started reading about frozen blackworms and how the processing of the worms get rid of any nasties in the worms and got so many positive reviews here, I decided to give it a shot. Yes, my fish love the frozen worms. They all go nuts for them. Then one fish expelled a long segmented and clear poop. I did not suspect the food at all until someone asked. Then, I thought, I started feeding frozen worms a few weeks ago. Four more fish pooped similar looking poop within a few weeks and two stopped eating. One didn't eat for a day, but now eating well again. The other one is still eating well. And then, when I saw ZX10R's post and saw a couple of more folks having similar issues, I thought this was, at least, worth looking in to. Now, we have a few more folks who have experienced similar things with their discus. I am still not saying the worms had some bad stuff in them, but I am thinking there may a relationship whether it's a combination of things or what. I don't know. It is possible that the worms may not cause any visible harm to some fish, but the same worms may to other fish. All I know is that there are few here who stated in this thread they were having similar issues and there are more who didn't post in this thread but are having similar issues. Also, discus are sensitive fish that would be affected by bugs and bad things when the same bad things don't have any negative effects on other fish. I just want to gather some more info so I can make an informed decision for my fish.

Some fish have stronger immune systems than others.

[moon_knight1971]

Don't know if any of this is true but.....

the guy at my LFS says he is having trouble getting Hikari Frozen Bloodworms (which is what I currently use as part of my fishes diet) because customs says there might be a radiation problem from what happened in Japan several months ago. He pushed the SF Bay Brand on me as a substitute. I've been feeding them this when I get home for work for the last 3 days and they definitely don't attack it like they did the Hikari brand. I see left over bloodworms in the tank for up to an hour. They eat it all but at a much slower pace. The live Blackworms I feed them disappear in minutes...

Joey!

[PAR23]

Sean are you referring to just live or all forms of blackworms?

[Chicago Discus]

I have been feeding live black worms for years I mean years and the only time I ever thought I had a problem was when I joined this Forum and people started telling me that my fish were going to get sick and die from the worms and it scared me so what did I do I Freaked out and started a Thread about Feeding live Black worms and you know what I came up with.... A bunch of know it all bullies telling me how great they are in discus keeping and wrong I am for feeding my fish Black worms (wow I get real blunt when I have a cocktail). My theory is this (from my aunt who is a retired bio-chemist in the food industry) there are thousands of deaths caused by food related illnesses to humans every year. so I might get a bad batch of worms, well here is the kicker are you paying attention THROW THEM OUT, and I might get some bad chicken that I feed to my eleven year old and he gets sick what I do never eat or feed chicken to my son again come on people please.

[TURQ64]

unless it's charity chicken..(you know, 'hey, we had this left over from our party'...)

[Chicago Discus]

unless it's charity chicken..(you know, 'hey, we had this left over from our party'...)

your so crazy LOL.....Josie

[Chicago Discus]

when you all get it figured out let me know ........................Josie

[PAR23]

Analysis is the way to go but how does one know what is found if any actually causes disease. They are after all worms.