My Planted Tank Experience

[TNT77]

If you really want to try it...thin layer of sand 1/4-1/2" thick, secure plants to easily movable objects like wood or large rocks, and do not over decorate..keep it simple. Not sure its something I want to try and raise juvies in but for someone who hates the sterile look these are the easiest ways I have found to keep the bottom debris free and still have stuff in the tank.

[mirador]

HI Recently I posted a thread in the "planted tank " section entitled "220 planted tank." I had a lot of "hits " but everyone wanted to see 220 planted tank. However what the post was was a guy ( me) saying that he had the tank set up ( for a year or so),he had the discus that were still young and in growout tanks, and he now suspected that the whole idea was nearly impossible. It's interesting to now read these previous posts. There are two things of note that might help in getting these big discus planted tanks to work:.
1. I saw in a Jack Wattley book ,a picture of a Bernd Degen planted tank. The front was bare bottom,then there was a wall , then the rest of the bottom was a real planted tank.That seems like a good ideai

2. We need someone to devise and post a "constant water change device". That would be great. It nmust already exist so we wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel. People,for example, post whole sections about lighting in a planted tank..like it matters.they don't like light and just about anything work OK as long as light levels aren't too high or there is shade.

Thanks

[TURQ64]

It already exsists, and was most likely the beginning of the hobby..It's a called drip system, used by many, many large distributors. Water drips in, tanks are bottom drilled to drip out without costly devices.......

[cjr8420]

the funny thing with new discus keepers is they have no clue how hard a BB discus tank is to keep up with and grow juvies to adult.

It already exsists, and was most likely the beginning of the hobby..It's a called drip system, used by many, many large distributors. Water drips in, tanks are bottom drilled to drip out without costly devices.......

the filter guys recently came out with a chlorine/chloramine filter yes this is old but they attached a 50,60,90 gal a day regulator for a constant drip system for a 100 bucks.set up an overflow to a drain and ur good.

[gerrard00]

gerrard00 - read post 20, first paragraph where I dicuss my first failure with planted tank. I did not specfify they were juvies, but they were. I failed due to lack of knowledge and laziness.

I apologize for missing that. My mistake. To be honest, I was really taken aback by your whole "/end of story" attitude and perhaps didn't read your posts closely enough in my haste to respond.

Despite all the back and forth between us, I believe that we are doing some educating along the way. I just wish things were not taken so personally sometimes.

I wager that if you go to any forum in the world and post "you're all wrong and just didn't do enough work, the end", people are going to take it personally.

Gerrard - this is what lead me to believe you failed at a planted tank. Here are some of your sentences: "At any rate, I would wager that there are more people out there at my skill level who are going to have bigger problems than "just more work". Problems like sick fish, fish that are dark, fish that don't grow, plants that don't grow, etc."

"Posts that suggested that it's only a matter of more work are what lead me to believe that I should grow my juvies out in a planted tank. I figured it was just a little more work dealing with a planted tank and the naysayers just didn't want to bother dealing with fertilizers and lights and things of that nature. I figured, "how hard could it be?". As long as I kept my nitrates below 10, I figured I'd be golden. I ignored the posts that stressed that growing out in a planted tank was going to be a huge challenge. I focused on the ones, like yours, that said it was just "more work", because that's what I wanted to believe. In all honesty, I believed people on other forums who said that SD members were maintenance obsessed and doing unnecessary changes. I wish I hadn't."

Those don't sound like success stories so I assumed you were trying to imply you failed at a juvie planted tank.

Those quotes sound to me like someone who has had some success, but who would have had much more success if he just followed the generally accepted idea of not doing growouts in a planted tank. I did have issues with my fish getting dark and not eating aggressively. If I finish a marathon in high heels, I can consider it a success. Heck, I can be proud that I was crazy enough to dedicate myself to finishing the race despite the handicaps I chose to place on myself. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't immediately think, "wow, I made that way harder on myself than it had to be. I wish I hadn't done that." That was my goal in making my original post, before this sticky was even made. To tell people that "hey, you can run the race in high heels, but it's not going to be just more work than running in sneakers."

[gerrard00]

If you really want to try it...thin layer of sand 1/4-1/2" thick, secure plants to easily movable objects like wood or large rocks, and do not over decorate..keep it simple. Not sure its something I want to try and raise juvies in but for someone who hates the sterile look these are the easiest ways I have found to keep the bottom debris free and still have stuff in the tank.

I think there have been a lot of great posts about potted plants in the display tank section. I think that's another good option for someone who just has to have their juvies in a decorated tank.

[gerrard00]

Always wanting to tweak their water parameters, it's like they are never satisfied with it.

This is one that I am also guilty of, but it was for the plants. My plants didn't like the high number of water changes, but I didn't realize that that was the only problem. I experimented with and continue to add Reef Builder (KH), GH Booster, Iron root tabs and other things. I only wish I knew that the plants would all start growing once I wasn't doing as many wcs. Eventually, I'd like to remove as many of the additives as possible from my regimen, but I'm nervous about tweaking my finally stable system.

I actually added Reef Builder to my BB QT tank on a whim a few weeks ago. I was hoping to minimize pH swings. Big mistake! I didn't realize how much of an impact even a small amount of the stuff would have. My fish were sick for two days and I didn't realize what was the culprit until Hans stressed to me to K.I.S.S. Luckily, they are happy and hungry again, but it was another lesson for me to learn.

At any rate, doing a growout in a planted tank isn't the only mistake I've made on this journey. Not by a longshot!

[rocklobster]

Hope I'm not invading, but I personally have never raised a Discus before, but I have successfully raised Piranhas in a hi-tech planted tank.

My question is, why is it so hard to grow out discus in a planted tank. Is it because they're prone to parameters, or something else? I've grown my piranhas from juvies until adults in my planted tank, but I have no experience with Discus, so I can't really compare.

[lipadj46]

Piranhas to discus is like apples to oranges

sent from my ti-85 during chemistry class

[rocklobster]

Piranhas to discus is like apples to oranges

sent from my ti-85 during chemistry class

Thanks for that.

I may not know about Discus, but it doesn't mean that I haven't raised fish before :]

[PaytonGrant]

I wonder if anyone has tried mongrove trees they bring down nitrated a lot

[gerrard00]

Hope I'm not invading, but I personally have never raised a Discus before, but I have successfully raised Piranhas in a hi-tech planted tank.

My question is, why is it so hard to grow out discus in a planted tank. Is it because they're prone to parameters, or something else? I've grown my piranhas from juvies until adults in my planted tank, but I have no experience with Discus, so I can't really compare.

Have you read through the posts in this thread? Here's a quote from my original post:

After a month or so, I decided to do some daily water changes due to some illness and the behavior of the fish changed dramatically. Their appetites went up and they became way more active. In the end, I spent a year plus constantly trying to keep the tank clean and food bits out of the plants and substrate. Sometimes it almost seemed like the fish were purposefully spitting little bits of food into the plants! The discus were OK as I was constantly changing water, but the plants hated it and never really grew. My nitrates never got above 10ppm, but there was a ton of organic material floating in the tank and my guys were less active and less aggressive eaters if I ever skipped one day's water change. That's the thing, I went into the whole planted tank thing thinking it would lead to "almost no work", but it wound up being a lot more work than if I had gone BB.

My opinions, based on first hand observation:

1. Juvenile discus are extremely sensitive to water conditions and pathogens as their immune system isn't fully developed.
2. Good water conditions doesn't just mean low nitrates; water changes are still needed to keep the fish growing, healthy and eating well.
3. Discus are incredibly messy eaters that grind their food into powder.
4. No amount of substrate cleaning is going to keep a tank totally clean.
5. Groups of juvenile discus need to be fed often and in large amounts to make sure all members of the group get fed.

Before I got involved with Discus, my only experience as a fish keeper was with goldfish. I changed water once a month, if I remembered to do it. I never even bought a test kit. I threw in a pinch of flakes whenever I thought about it. I used pebbles as a substrate. My goldfish were generally happy and healthy. If they ever died I just bought new ones. The thing is, discus are not goldfish! I had to learn that by reading through the archives of this forum.

[williemcd]

Well.. I guess it's time for the alternate view hey?...I'm currently raising 7 discus in a 155 G with 6 GB rams.. a dozen or so tetras, a dozen pygmy cory's. AND more plants that ya can shake a stick at!... I'm a great proponent of the Walstad method of tank maintenance perhaps cuz I'm lazy or maybe because I do believe you can achieve a nice balance in the environment. I do NO WATER CHANGES other than a periodic (bi-weekly) vacuum of the substrate and evaporation replenishment. Probably 10% per week total water exchange. I bought my brood at the age of 2 months so they have now just turned one year and 2 weeks old.. Spawn occurred 2/11/11. One is now approaching 5 inches SL.. there are a few that aren't quite as large and a few runts but that's to be expected I think. Now here is where I get on my soap box.
As fish keepers we are taking these fish out of an environment where they are free to roam without constraint.. We now house them in a glass enclosure. Don't ya think we should do all that is humanly possible (other than taking them back to the wild) to ensure their time in captivity is as natural to it's native state?... Some folks ask me about the density of my plantings.. Vals and Amz swords.. some crypts.. etc... I ask them why they think the Discus evolved to the physical shape they display?.. They are used to swimming thru thick vegetation hence their slim/narrow profile.
All my fish see "pop" approaching the tank with food container in hand and EQUALLY await feeding time.. 5-6 times a day!.. The smallest of the group has no hesitation challenging the Big Boy for that morsel floating down between them. I feel that providing them with as natural a habitat as I can, I'm excluded myself from the dynamics of the group and they've formed their natural chain of command.
I considered submitting my fish to a "critique" site (which I'm sure your well aware of).. but after reading a number of elitist comment on the quality of the PHOTO"s.. I sat back and said to myself.. I think my fish are perfect... They like me. The world is good....<Grin> I don't need any validation from ANYONE else about my fish..

Now since they've reached a year of age, they are starting to show some dom/sub behavior.. I think that's to be expected as they approach sexual maturity. This behavior ONLY happens when they're not feeding!.. At chow time, they're all in it together.

So there is a planted tank/discus keeper's perspective. Bill in Va.

[TNT77]

Well.. I guess it's time for the alternate view hey?...I'm currently raising 7 discus in a 155 G with 6 GB rams.. a dozen or so tetras, a dozen pygmy cory's. AND more plants that ya can shake a stick at!... I'm a great proponent of the Walstad method of tank maintenance perhaps cuz I'm lazy or maybe because I do believe you can achieve a nice balance in the environment. I do NO WATER CHANGES other than a periodic (bi-weekly) vacuum of the substrate and evaporation replenishment. Probably 10% per week total water exchange. I bought my brood at the age of 2 months so they have now just turned one year and 2 weeks old.. Spawn occurred 2/11/11. One is now approaching 5 inches SL.. there are a few that aren't quite as large and a few runts but that's to be expected I think. Now here is where I get on my soap box.
As fish keepers we are taking these fish out of an environment where they are free to roam without constraint.. We now house them in a glass enclosure. Don't ya think we should do all that is humanly possible (other than taking them back to the wild) to ensure their time in captivity is as natural to it's native state?... Some folks ask me about the density of my plantings.. Vals and Amz swords.. some crypts.. etc... I ask them why they think the Discus evolved to the physical shape they display?.. They are used to swimming thru thick vegetation hence their slim/narrow profile.
All my fish see "pop" approaching the tank with food container in hand and EQUALLY await feeding time.. 5-6 times a day!.. The smallest of the group has no hesitation challenging the Big Boy for that morsel floating down between them. I feel that providing them with as natural a habitat as I can, I'm excluded myself from the dynamics of the group and they've formed their natural chain of command.
I considered submitting my fish to a "critique" site (which I'm sure your well aware of).. but after reading a number of elitist comment on the quality of the PHOTO"s.. I sat back and said to myself.. I think my fish are perfect... They like me. The world is good....<Grin> I don't need any validation from ANYONE else about my fish..

Now since they've reached a year of age, they are starting to show some dom/sub behavior.. I think that's to be expected as they approach sexual maturity. This behavior ONLY happens when they're not feeding!.. At chow time, they're all in it together.

So there is a planted tank/discus keeper's perspective. Bill in Va.

Discus DO NOT come from lush green environments. Just because they look good swimming around in a planted tank does not mean that is where they came from. They come from murky looking water with tons and tons of roots and braches with random plants here and there.
And the reason we discus people preach about raising them as we do so you do not get the stunted fish. We preach to raise healthy fish. A fish that does not grow well is not a completely healthy individual. Yes it may live a year or two but how long do you think an underdeveloped body will continue to run.

[typicalalex1]

My story is very similar to yours.
I kept South American cichlids before discus, Oscars, JD's etc and it got to the point where i was fed up of the fish always fighting. I knew i needed a change and i knew exactly what i wanted to change to.

I made sure that i read up as much detail on discus as possible.
I knew how many discus i could put in my tank, i knew what tank mates i would have i had even chosen what plants i wanted in the tank.

I set up my tank and bought the plants and then bought the discus's tank mates.
Everything seemed to be going well up to this point.
My first mistake was buying Young discus. Somehow, i missed 1 very important point which was keeping young discus in planted tanks is near impossible for a beginner.

1 of my original discus died and i sold the rest.

I then went out and bought 3 adult discus.
1 of those died a couple of months later for no apparent reason, water was fine and he looked in good health.

I then bought 5 more adults, 2 of them were peppered but peppering doesnt bother me at all, i actually think 1 of the fish looks better with peppering than without.

But i had the same Tunnel Vision as you did.
I thought it would be different for me than it would be for anyone else, i thought the same when i kept my SA cichlids as well. But since i lost my first adult discus, i am a completly changed fishkeeper!

Water changes of 25% once or twice a week was the norm for me but now its 50%-80% every other day.
I de worm my fish every couple of months like i should be, i have reduced how much i feed my fish at once and instead feed less amounts but more often.


To anyone that it thinking about starting a planted discus tank, or any discus tank for that matter, make sure you spend time reading through this forum.
Some of the problems you find on this site will happen to you at some point and the best way to combat them are to be prepared!
I wish i had been before i started.