white spot on fin

[mdj131]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

Noticed white spot on tail fin today.. it was not there yesterday.





2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Photo of white dot attached. I hope it shows up, I compressed it too much maybe and the camera is old and the tank is scratched up a bit. This is my first attempt at posting a pic here

sick2.jpg




3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.
None. Waiting for advice... everyone is getting and showing color finally (I purchased them about a week back) and I want to hit this right the first time.




Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

46 Gallon bowfront, tank is 8 yrs old and filter is established for 3 years at least.
Six 2 1/2" - 3 1/2" Discus, no other fish.


5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?
I age water overnight w/ aeration and heat to 86f. I do 50% -60% wc daily on bare bottom. I did recently (3 days back) put in a fake hollow tree stump and some Roman columns for structure, which helped the bullied one get its color I think based on constant observation... not much better to watch around here lol. This "structure" probably needs to be replaced with driftwood, but I need to find and prepare some at the lake nearby... planning on starting that project later today.




6 Parameters and water source;

- temp _____ 86f - 87f at lights off dropping to 84f at lights on. I have to get second 200 watt heater to stabilize the temp better I think, intend to do that next trip to a city. (I'm rural, very, very rural)

- ph _____ 8.3

- ammonia reading ____ 0 ppm

- nitrite reading ____ 0 ppm

- nitrate reading ____ 0 ppm today, usually reads about 3 ppm.

- well water ____ No

- municipal water ____ Yes

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

No.

[pcsb23]

Looks pretty normal to me. In 99.9% of cases where the odd white spot appears on tails etc an increase in water changes or improvement in tank maintenance soon fixes. Even then in the best maintained tanks they sometimes appear. Nothing needs be done expcept make sure tank maintenance is up to scratch, oh and keep an eye on it just in case it is not in the 99.9%

[mdj131]

A tank mate has developed a similar, smaller white spot on its pectoral fin and 3 very small ones on its tail fin.

The first spot has not changed for the better or for the worse.

I haven't missed a water change since day one, so should I continue to let them fight it on their own or medicate at this point?

My "go to" has always been Life Guard for spots like this, but I have not treated Discus, so... I'm convinced everything I "know" is wrong for Discus

[strawberryblonde]

This is just my personal experience with white spots on fins and not an expert opinion in any way.

Mine also have gotten white spots now and then, and so far each time it's been fin ray damage rather than any actual disease. My discus seem to have a thing for smacking tails and sometimes other fins into driftwood, overflow boxes, etc and then end up damaging the rays on their fins. It's not a problem for them, it's just a bit unsightly.

Your picture isn't clear enough to really show the spots well, but they do look a lot like the damage my discus have. If it's a raised white spot, or looks fluffy then I'd be thinking disease. If it's just a spot on the ray then I'd be thinking damage.

[mdj131]

Ok I will check all the spots I have noticed for changes regularly. It isn't puffy nor growing larger so, I will try and be patient and will keep you updated.

[mdj131]

Ok I have been observing and I don't think this is normal damage, I believe I have a pathogen.

From the original single spot I now have 10 or so white spots about 1mm in size, slightly rounded or puffed on both sides of the fin, located on the tail fin. Looks a lot like a very slow spreading Ich, except only on fins and I shouldn't have that at 86F?
Also there are now 3 more spots on the dorsal fin, and another of my Discus has developed one spot on the tail fin.

If I can get time I will try to get pics.

[pcsb23]

A clear pic may help. I doubt it will be ich as it spreads real fast. If you chose to treat something like F&MG (quick cure in the USA) would be a good bet.

[Addictedtodiscus]

I believe you and I have the same thing that is pestering my discus! I've come to believe that it is ICH. However, i cant seem to get rid of it no matter what i do!!!...I do MASSIVE! water changes and treat the whole tank with ICH medication and salt and its been about 2 months now and nothing has changed. These things look like little see through orbs that poof out on one side of the fin and as time goes, they seem to get bigger and spread more throughout the fins. The wierdest part about all of this is, my discus dont seem to have a problem with them and the only place these things appear is on their tail. These things are definitly not ray damage. It started off on one of my discus then spread to all of them. However that one discus that started it all still has the first spot that i noticed on it 2 months ago, and it is still the biggest white spot among all of them too. Huh...so unsightly but my fish dont seem to mind it and thats whats puzzling me. They are still growing and coloring up nicely. I just cant seem to get rid of it...im not even really sure if its ICH anymore, but the research i do say it is...so what can i say...help too?

[pcsb23]

I believe you and I have the same thing that is pestering my discus! I've come to believe that it is ICH. However, i cant seem to get rid of it no matter what i do!!!...I do MASSIVE! water changes and treat the whole tank with ICH medication and salt and its been about 2 months now and nothing has changed. These things look like little see through orbs that poof out on one side of the fin and as time goes, they seem to get bigger and spread more throughout the fins. The wierdest part about all of this is, my discus dont seem to have a problem with them and the only place these things appear is on their tail. These things are definitly not ray damage. It started off on one of my discus then spread to all of them. However that one discus that started it all still has the first spot that i noticed on it 2 months ago, and it is still the biggest white spot among all of them too. Huh...so unsightly but my fish dont seem to mind it and thats whats puzzling me. They are still growing and coloring up nicely. I just cant seem to get rid of it...im not even really sure if its ICH anymore, but the research i do say it is...so what can i say...help too?

Although I cannot be sure about what is happening in your tank, the OP's is not ich. A very simple examination using a 'scope would determine one way or the other (but most discus keepers don't own 'scopes!!). If you have used a medication aimed at treating ich, and it is still there after two months, then either you have administered the med wrong or it is not ich.

[Addictedtodiscus]

Heres what im talking about in these photos. My water parimeters are almost exactly the same as the owner of this thread except my discus stay at 84 degrees. And trust me, my back hurts from water changes. Im beginning to think it is not ich either. I wonder what else it could be. This thing is targeting the tail fins only. The wierd thing is my Marlboro Red is the only one that does not have it anymore. He did once have it too!. But the red turqs. still have them.







BTW, MDJ131 i dont mean to thread jack you, but i believe we might have the same thing, and i hope this would benefit the both of us, instead of me having to start another thread. My apologies if you feel im threadjacking. Thanks

[pcsb23]

Well, it is definitely not ich.

Andrew Soh has often said this could be encapsulated bacteria or other pathogen, and Andrew may well be right too. However there is another possibility and that is lymphocystis virus, though I seriously doubt it in this case as usually there is evidence on the body too.

Trouble is, if the pathogen is encysted there is no way to get to it, so often times it is a waiting game ... again usually clean water and continued good husbandry will sort.

[mdj131]

I do have a UV sterilizer but have not installed it as of yet, so very busy these days. I suppose it couldn't hurt to put it between the canister filter and the intake, perhaps this will help?

Encysted is a good way to describe what these things look like. Little white micro-balls protruding ever so slightly on both sides of fins... The last 2 pics from Addictedtodiscus look exactly like what I have on mine.

[mdj131]

Also, the spots appear ONLY on the rays... That should be a solid clue I would think....

[mdj131]

Ok so I guess I will QT the fish and use quick cure.... I don't know. I kinda hoping that the continued w/c would eventually help. Nitrates have never been higher than 1ppm. I'm retired so missing water changes does not happen, period. I would instal the uv sterilizer if anyone thought that would help... The fish is not stressed and no other fish have caught the thing yet ( the one I thought had was just faking it to get attention I guess ) so, maybe wait it out?

It just seems strange that the spots spread soooo slowly and that they only affect fin rays, yet protrude from both sides of the ray slightly... I haven't seen anything behave like that on any of my varied fish since I started keeping fish when I was a kid (I'm 43).

I guess my options are, quick cure QT, wait it out, or add uv sterilizer... should I start a poll? (j/k)

What would you do if it were your fish?

[Eddie]

I wouldn't treat them. I've had hundreds of fish with those spots on the fins. Look at the overall condition of the fish. They are bright, colorful, look healthy and if they are not acting ill, there is no need to expose them to chemicals. I have in the past, waited until the fish were older and cut the fins to remove the spots but to be honest, its not that big of a deal. So again, the overall health is more important than those spots. They are nothing to fret about.

Eddie