Withdrawn: Pat's Contest Fish Wild Tefe F1 "Batch B"

[Alfredo Llecha]

Pat, The "Zombie face" is common in 100% of the discus treated with organophosphates, sometimes with antibiotics and other chemicals a few ratio of the discus is affected. For example some individual has severe reaction to the MS222 during the transport, but I guess it is not your case. I sent you a PM. I hope everything is doing well for you.

[Second Hand Pat]

Alfredo, I understand the zombie state (closed fins, not interested in eating or eating poorly) can be a infestation of gill flukes or external protozoans. This picture raised concerns in Paul (Tommo). This picture is Batch A and they were about eight weeks old.



This was a somewhat later picture of Batch A and after treatment.



Batch A are eight months old and look like this.



Since these thread are being watched and are considered a learning tool would you mind giving more meaning to organophosphates, MS222 etc.

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Glad your staying in Pat!!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Glad your staying in Pat!!!

Thanks Kraig, I will do my best this these guys. They are really dark on the moment. Not sure why.

[Alfredo Llecha]

Pat I understood "zombie" as the state of the fish floating basically static, with the fins fully extended, its pupils fully dilated and absence of eye movements (like Zombies). Long time ago the organophosphate insecticide, Trichlorfon was the most effective drug against the gill flukes, the side effect of that drug was that all the discus in contact with Trichlorfon will stay in the "zombie state" during a week. MS222 is an anesthetic present in the "Bag Buddie" commercial solution for shipping the fishes. Sorry for misunderstood.

After watching your pics I want to discuss with you some questions,

1) What kind of food are they feeding, and in case of beef heart mix, what kind of minerals and vitamins do you add to the mix?
2) Do you add to the water some kind of conditioner, salt or RO waste?
3) I understand your water temperature is 82-84F.
4) I understand your nitrite level is zero.

My questions are trivial, I know, but for me very important. I dont need to know any other parameters, including pH, but nitrification slows down at a pH of 6.5 and will stop below 6.0, the sponge filters wont work, so a massive water change is need.

And please take a look at this report about the Amazon water, old but pretty interesting.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/1964/0486/report.pdf

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Alfredo, I was using my own definition for zombie state. I didn't know there was a more universal definition for a discus zombie. Now for your questions.

1) What kind of food are they feeding, and in case of beef heart mix, what kind of minerals and vitamins do you add to the mix?

I actually feed a seafood mix, FDBWs, Beef Heart flake with pro-growth, spirulina flake, adult brine shrimp with and with spirulina. To the seafood mix I add a couple drops of human baby vitamins. I would have to look on the ingredient list for the minerals included.

2) Do you add to the water some kind of conditioner, salt or RO waste?

My water is strictly my well water which come straight from the Florida aquifer which is porous limestone so no salt, RO waste or conditioners are used.

3) I understand your water temperature is 82-84F.

Correct.

4) I understand your nitrite level is zero.

Correct.

[Second Hand Pat]

I may finally have these five little fish turned around. They are actually acting interested in food and went to bed with slightly rounded bellies. These fish are set back at least three months. This weekend should be a telling one. I know I am late on my picture update and will update tomorrow night.

[rdiscus]

Good to hear they're doing better and better Pat ... looking to see pictures of them

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Ryan, they still do not look like much, quite plain looking at this point.

[Dogvet06]

Im sure they will grow up beautifully! They have such lovely parents

[Second Hand Pat]

Im sure they will grow up beautifully! They have such lovely parents

They do but I remain reserved for the moment. I am sort of a show me type of person.

[Dogvet06]

Well if ur not happy with them just give to me :P i only want 7 haha

[Second Hand Pat]

Aren't you a year away from this?

[Dogvet06]

Well maybe i cant wait lol

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Hoping the best Pat!!!!