Vintage Strain Development

[Second Hand Pat]

I am so clueless, I had to Google "MILF".............!
er, had NO IDEA!!!



Pat I am so totally impressed - being fairly 'new' to Discus, of course at first my eye was drawn to colorful eye candy. but more & more I have come to appreciate wilds, and the more classic strains. yet another of your threads I will follow with great interest! wishing the best of luck to you

Aw thanks Trish and I had to look it up also For me I have always been drawn to the wild look of any creature so wilds appealed naturally to me. When I was a kid I wanted a wolf so bad.

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, Great project, great discus to try this with and you wonder why I call you the Aretha Franklin (Queen of Soul for those who don't know the name) of discus, you are the Queen of Discus without a doubt!!!

Keep up the good work and I have some empty tanks now if you need some help raising the juvies.

Awesome work Pat!!!

Jeff, will you stop and I know you will not. Guess it is good you are not going to Atlanta you would be the heck out of me...seriously I do want to meet you one day and I will remember the empty tank offer.

[ockyra215]

Pat sounds like a very interesting project to try to accomplish I wish you luck and look forward to following your process. There are going to be a lot of ups and downs document it all! And ofcourse we are all gonna want fry lol!

Now on the other hand document it all and publish it! Lots of pictures and information! You could be the next Bernd Degen! Book Deal!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Thank you Dave and as having never done anything like this I expect plenty of ups and downs. Most likely more downs while getting started. lol.

It is sort of funny you mention a book. A fellow co-worker who has taken an interest in the fish also mentioned doing one or more ebooks on the events in the "Wild Tefe Spawn" thread since I have plenty of pics and video clips documenting the events. Apparently you can self-publish with Apple for the ipad etc market. Might be a cool way for the hobby to pay for itself.

[Brent1972]

Any more spots appearing on your fry pat ?

[Second Hand Pat]

Any more spots appearing on your fry pat ?

Brent, those pictures above are from the last week so have not really checked since. lol

[CliffsDiscus]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ast&highlight=[/QUOTE]

All of these Discus picture were from Sunny Lo, he had a hatchery on the 7th floor in Hong Kong. I still see some of the old Discus still keeper these fish.

Cliff

[Second Hand Pat]

Cliff, I have seen that posted in Kraig's thread. Love those poster pictures. So some of these fish still exist? Any in the US?

[nc0gnet0]

Well Rick, I am having a little PM discussion with Rod on that very topic and he is suggesting breeding the cousins over the sibling (mainly due to a concern of mine about breeding siblings). I know with the same mother batch A and B are not exactly cousins. But still. Also I have 9 other unrelated wild Tefe so the possibilities are endless.

I am also sure you have an opinion on this and would love to hear it

Well Rod certainly would be the one to ask! At least from the pictures, your Tefes apear to be a bit green/blue (could be the camera) as opposed to the more cobalt blue tint to the picture of the discus you are trying to achieve. As to what I what I might suggest depends on what you are willing to work with to achieve your objective. If your willing to throw a domestic in the mix I would go with crossing your F1's with an ARSG or RSG (don't see many of them around). Based on the few crosses I ahve done with an ARSG, Pattern wise it will get your to were you want pretty quick, then have to work on color.

Rick

[Moon]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ast&highlight=

All of these Discus picture were from Sunny Lo, he had a hatchery on the 7th floor in Hong Kong. I still see some of the old Discus still keeper these fish.

Is Sunny still working with discus. Haven't heard anything about him for years.

Cliff[/QUOTE]

[DiscusDrew]

This is an incredible idea Pat, I'm happy to hear wild breeders moving in that direction as I too have slowly been gravitating away from the highly inbred domestics (not discrediting their beauty) and moving my eyes towards wilds and the F1's and such that come off of these truly beautiful and unique fish. It would be incredible to see more fish on the market that can still legitimately hold the aequifasciata part of their original name

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Pat this will be a hard road. Watanabe is doing this right now. His Red Turquoise have a strong wild background. He told me he breeds a wild into the strain on a regular basis. They are IMO the nicest Red Turqs I have seen. Yes I like them better than the Piwowarski.

[Second Hand Pat]

Well Rod certainly would be the one to ask! At least from the pictures, your Tefes apear to be a bit green/blue (could be the camera) as opposed to the more cobalt blue tint to the picture of the discus you are trying to achieve. As to what I what I might suggest depends on what you are willing to work with to achieve your objective. If your willing to throw a domestic in the mix I would go with crossing your F1's with an ARSG or RSG (don't see many of them around). Based on the few crosses I ahve done with an ARSG, Pattern wise it will get your to were you want pretty quick, then have to work on color.

Rick

Hi Rick, I do not mind if the Tefe's maintain their present color. The final result does not need to be exactly like the picture posted and my current goal is to keep the breeding stock all wild or wild descendants. I may adjust my goals over time based on what the fish present so crossing in a domestic is possible but not my first choice ATM. Also based on what I am seeing in some of the F1s they may be developing the pattern needed for the F2 generation. I do wish to keep the exchange of ideas going too.

[Second Hand Pat]

This is an incredible idea Pat, I'm happy to hear wild breeders moving in that direction as I too have slowly been gravitating away from the highly inbred domestics (not discrediting their beauty) and moving my eyes towards wilds and the F1's and such that come off of these truly beautiful and unique fish. It would be incredible to see more fish on the market that can still legitimately hold the aequifasciata part of their original name

Thank you Drew, I am not sure I would call myself a wild breeder but that sounds pretty cool. People over time seem to move to wilds or keeping one stain over time.

[nc0gnet0]

Pat this will be a hard road. Watanabe is doing this right now. His Red Turquoise have a strong wild background. He told me he breeds a wild into the strain on a regular basis. They are IMO the nicest Red Turqs I have seen. Yes I like them better than the Piwowarski

.

Pat-Definitely an admirable project but there are a few things to consider. Even if you start with wild stock, if you breed the siblings through several generations, wouldn't the outcome still be a domestic discus? Just something to consider before totally dismissing the option of using a domestic here and there in your project. I like Kraigs example of breeding back to the wild strain every few generations. Using a specific domestic here and there will help you pinpoint the attributes you wish to incorporate into the line more easily.

One thing I know, your going to find yourself gobbling up a lot of tank space in a hurry . The thing about these brown strains, and the spotted ones specifically, is they take a long time to develope thier final appearance. This means growing out a good portion of your spawns to near maturity to make sure you don't throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak.

Rick