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Thread: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

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    Homesteader Orange Crush's Avatar
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    Default Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

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    Registered Member DiscusDrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    Awww congrats!!! Is it your first time as a potential momma?
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    Homesteader Orange Crush's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscusDrew View Post
    Awww congrats!!! Is it your first time as a potential momma?
    Yup. I have done lots of reading on this forum but not in the breeding section because I did not think this would happen. lol
    Is it common for the discus to get darker than normal? (she/he is not as dark as my picture makes it look like though)
    Does the female or male do the most guarding of the eggs? I see they take turns but one does the most; I do not know which is the female.
    Since this is their first attempt I am not expecting it to work but when they are successful what will the offspring of a virgin red and a blue SS/Scorpion be?
    I only saw the virgin red doing the shimmy but not the blue so I did not think I would find eggs!
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    Registered Member DiscusDrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    Well in the picture the eggs appear almost white already, so might only have a confirmed female in there but hard to say yet. My males tend to be the better parents overall and I think thats the general concensus. I breed mostly pigeon based fish and do not see much if any change in color usually, however, the dark angels I just got in... they change COMPLETELY for their fry, turning dark which helps with attachment and such down the road. My female turned BRIGHT almost cobalt blue, and the male's whole top half turned a dark purple, so it probably is due to the spawn. Im not a breeding pro yet, and am just dabbling my feet into genetics which is why I will defer your third question, especially since I only breed pigeon based strains at the moment. If what Im thinking is correct though I dont see any real issue with those potential fry, could be very interesting to see. Rick and Rod would be great to ask that question too, hopefully they will see this thread. Both of them have been invaluable to me with the genetics/breeding part of this journey. The virgin red is non-pigeon red, then your turq, Im guessing half and half with some exceptions? Like I said I am not educated enough to make a claim. Thats why I only breed what I know and understand at least half way haha.
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    Homesteader Orange Crush's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscusDrew View Post
    Well in the picture the eggs appear almost white already, so might only have a confirmed female in there but hard to say yet.
    The picture does not do a good job at showing the color of the discus or the eggs. I am a poor photographer using a phone camera - any picture I take is doomed!
    2 of the eggs are white and not fertalized but the others look like they were fertalized. However, I am only guessing on this based on my experience of breeding apistogrammas a lot.
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    Registered Member DiscusDrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    Well I'll be watching this cute couple make progress, i'm excited for you. Are they in a community tank right now?
    Drew Harris, owner of Drewbus Discus
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    Registered Member DiscusDrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    In my experience with breeding it will take a few days to determine if they are definitely fertilized.
    Drew Harris, owner of Drewbus Discus
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscusDrew View Post
    Are they in a community tank right now?
    Yes, that is perhaps why the virgin red parent is darker than normal. The other fish keep coming near and they have to shoo them away. I have a medusa pleco, 3 apistos, 6 discus and 12+ amanos (not sure how many, I started with 12 but they are multiplying).
    Tomorrow I will set up a 20 gal and put the pair and the plant they laid the eggs on in the tank. Thank goodness I have it in a terra cotta pot.
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    Registered Member DiscusDrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    I would maybe either put a divider up or just leave them for a few more spawns, they should start going once a week. Let them learn to spawn, get on a schedule, defend the eggs, they probably wont keep any of the eggs or wigglers if they allow them to get that far, but it will help them establish as a breeding pair. Then pull them exactly as you described, I try to do it a day or two before they are scheduled to spawn. It has worked well for me and made for smooth transfers outside of their normal tank. I hope that helps.
    Drew Harris, owner of Drewbus Discus
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    Homesteader Orange Crush's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    They both ate the eggs yesterday, not that I am surprised by this since this was their first time. Still a bummer though.
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    Sorry to hear that. Also when my BDs starting laying eggs I got excited and it has knocked them off the weekly egg laying cycle they had going on. So might be better off leaving them right where they are until you know they are a confirmed pair and get the wiggler stage a time or two. No experience but from what I read it can help make them better parents. (<---- Dont know if that is true or not)

    Also are you sure your Amano's are breeding in there? They typically need brackish water for the little ones to hatch/grow out. I know of a thread I was following on Plantedtank of a guy trying to breed and raise them but could never get them past the larvae stage or whatever they call it. If they are he might care to know your water parameters and such. Not saying its impossible, but would like to see a confirmed case of it without all the salt water since they are great algae eaters and I think they look neat. Again just going off the endless hours of pointless research I do when I am bored.
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    Homesteader Keith Perkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    A virgin red and snakeskin pairing is going to give you virgin reds. I previously had a rose rose paired with a snakeskin and they always produced rose reds. Rod thinks the rose and virgin reds have the same origin. There is a very recent thread, within the last few days, discussing this exact pairing and asking the same question and Rod, myself, and a couple others weighed in on it.

    I'd considering getting a breeding tank set up adjacent to the current tank soon. I use to think exactly like Ben and Drew that you should let a pair get some experience before you moved them. Then I recently ran into a pair where the male would always eat the eggs. In talking (PMing) with the admin Paul he said as logical as it seemed to leave a pair get experience, sometimes in their little heads they see eating the eggs as the best way to protect them. Unfortunately sometimes when they learn this "protective behavior" they continue it whether there are other threats around or not. Good luck and I hope you're able to confirm they're a pair soon.
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    Registered Member DiscusDrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    Thats a good point Keith that I hadnt really thought about. I suppose my main point was simply that it takes more time if you move them prematurely... they will or at least should start spawning again, however it may take some time. Leaving them in the tank to establish a cycle of sorts seems to eliminate this in my experience. However I could completely see how you could end up in a situation where your having to cage the eggs consistently, which would be a huge pita. I may have to do an experiment next time I shuffle breeders and see what i find out. So far allowing them to establish and then moving them has been beneficial, but usually in my situation I havent had egg eaters, so its completely pheasable that this poor trend could develop.
    Drew Harris, owner of Drewbus Discus
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    Homesteader Keith Perkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    I wish I had thought of it. I now have the one fish in my growout group that I really wanted to breed that constantly eats eggs as they're being laid. Even caging isn't an option anymore, and as best I can tell this was probably with only about a half dozen spawns. Just when I thought surely the fish should be catching on most anytime. Some probably just never do. Fortunately this is the only fish I've ever had that was nearly this bad.
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    Homesteader Orange Crush's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....

    Quote Originally Posted by CozyKeith View Post
    There is a very recent thread, within the last few days, discussing this exact pairing and asking the same question and Rod, myself, and a couple others weighed in on it.
    Yes, I started that thread since Drew thought I should get Rod and Rick's opinions - which I did.
    I will move them to the 20 G asap but how long can 2 discus stay in there? It just seems so small for 2 discus. Also, what about the 4 left in the 75G? Won't that cause aggression problems since they will not be a group of 6 anymore?
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