is illness a weakness?

[agwe]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

a. worms or bacterial infection, started 2 weeks ago. My cobalt wont eat, stay at the bottom of the tank and had turned dark.



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)


turned dark, not eating, white poop



3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.


hexamita( 20 drops for the first day, 12 drops for the next 5 days, with 5 drops extra during daily water change(30%)


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

120 l, 11 months, 4 discus fishes, about 6 to 10 cms

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

planted for about 8 months, bare bottom for the past three months, water change 30% everyday. no water ageing

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp 26-28 C

- ph 7-7.5

- ammonia reading : not done

- nitrite reading : not done

- nitrate reading : not done

- well water : no

- municipal water : yes

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

None


Hi,

I am Ganesh from Germany. I have a 120 l tank with four discus fishes(2 pigeon blood red, one snake skin red and one cobalt), and one sucker fish I have been keeping this tank for almost a year now... First I had this tank planted and it was getting harder and harder to keep the tank clean with the discus pooping in grams.

One of my friends, who helped me in setting up the tank told me that it would be nice to have a few tetras swimming around for the disucs to get rid of their shyness. So i bought around 20 neon tetras and I introduced all the fishes in stages, atleast one week apart, observing them for diseases. Note that this is my frist aquarium tank.. I never had one before. I visited a pet shop once with this friend to buy cat food for his cats and I was totally mesmerized with the discus I saw there and I knew at that instant that I would own one.

So, back to the story.... little did I know that I have overcrowded my tank for one thing and the next is that the tetras and corydoras ate all the beef heart that I fed the discus and they are quiet big now So, I bought a new tank, transferred all my tetras and corydoras to this tank.

Meanwhile, my cobalt discus, named Megam got sick. I later learnt that water quality is very important to keep my discus healthy. I researched a lot and also through my pet store, I learnt that my discus might be affected by worms or bacterial infection. I am treating for about five days now.

When my cobalt was sick... the other three bullied it(which usually never happened and all of em were in harmony). Now... Megam seems to recover from the disease but has turned out very aggressive lately and territorial also probably.
Does this go by darwin's theory that the weak get bullied by the stronger??

I am posting a few pics of my now bare bottom tank..

Also, for the past 2 days, the bigger pigeon blood red is shaking/trembling.. I learnt from the internet that it is ready for pairing... but only one is shaking and the rest three are ok??

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for replies, suggestions.

[DiscusDrew]

Its not worms, its flagellates, they are not the same, flagellates are a much much smaller organism. You may be dealing with worms as well but in general that does not take precedence. Sounds like you've learned a lot of the necessary lessons. One thing ill say is that you should have two instincts when you have a problem in a tank. The first, test your water parameters (you really need to actually do this). The second, change lots of water and often, discus need a regular water change schedule which it sounds like you've already learned.

So first test your water parameters and rule out water quality as your issue. Second I need more info on exactly what you treated with, hexamita is a flagellate infestation, referring to a specific kind of flagellate. There's no liquid that i've ever used to treat hex or spiro so I just don't know what your referring to. Normal treatment would be metronidazole treated daily at 500 Mg/ 10 gallons, with as large a water change as possible being done before each dose.

[Brent1972]

By the sound of it this is what agwe is treating with http://www.eshalabs.com/hexamita.htm

[DiscusDrew]

Hmmm it might have metro in it, or at least it should, but most likely not at the dosage needed to overcome your problem. However I am not directly familiar with the medication, thanks for looking that up for me though Brent I appreciate it. So I would still seek out pure metro as stated in my original post to combat the problem directly without a regimen of other drugs that may be detracting from effectiveness

[Chicago Discus]

Ok it's basically a 30 gallon tank which should be fine for four discus at that size you can try cleaning them up with medication but first I would start aging your water it really does make a huge difference. I don't know what medications are sold and available in Germany but I know who does. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Xa3hCgcwBZhzJw contact them they are very helpful and knowledgable with Discus and can point you to different medications that are available in Germany ........hope this helps......Josie

[agwe]

I used to check the water parameters once in two days but I stopped doing it since the time my tank went bare bottom, because I am changing the water everyday. My pH from the tap is around 7.5. In the beginning, I was worried sick if my discus would survive such high pH, but my pet store told me that the discus bred in germany normally are used to this pH.

Second, even if the nitrate or nitrite is high, I wouldnt want to buy those nitrate- or nitrite-. Adding more chemicals would harm the fishes than doing good right? And again, since I change the water everyday there wouldnt be a possibility for these params to go out of range, would it? atleast thats what I thought..... but I will definitely take up the suggestions from experienced ppl like you and will definitely start checking water params again.

Brent... yes.. thats exactly the medication that was given to me.... metro is not available in Germany. everything is a lil different here and its hard keeping up with the strange names for well known fishes even..
@@ Josie. thanks for the website.. will contact them..btw.. I do not have enough knowledge on water ageing.... will search into the forum first before asking further questions about it.

Still.... my question is still unanswered.... I have asked here about the aggressive behaviour of my cobalt... it seems to be recovering from flagellates but has turned out really aggressive. All of them usually come to me when I pet them, but my cobalt seems to have a never ending anger on my snake skin.... even when i pet it.. it doesnt seem to care.. it simply wants to attack my snake skin.. Surprisingly, it doesnt do the same to the two blood reds... maybe because my snake skin used to bully my cobalt when it was sick that it is now taking revenge sort of??

[Brent1972]

It could be that they are two males or its just a bully . The problem is with the size of your tank you can only have 4 fish , Most people have Minimum 6 fish as then bullying would be spread out across all the fish.

[agwe]

Yes. I can see clearly now that the Disucs need a bigger space to swim happily. In my current tank, they feel restricted. I am planning to get a 60g tank but will have to wait a little longer since I have not much space in my current house

[dpete9]

Hi Ganesh and welcome to SD.. I'm living in Maastricht (close to Aachen, DE) so, we're practically neighbors :-)
ESHA Products are everywhere here but.... not many of the other things. I was trying to start a sub-forum here for that exact reason.. What people on here recommend and treat with just aren't available to us in Europe.. or at least not readily available.. I have a source for Metro for you. contact me if interested.

[agwe]

Hello Pete!

Nice to meet someone who lives a little closer!! . You are absolutely right. Aquarium and related hobbies are very famous in the US and a lot of stuff that I ve not even heard of is available there. In Germany is a lot of them limited, maybe because of stringent rules. I havent practically seen a private store in Bayern that breed and sell Discus. U do not get wild caught or other shades easily.. Same goes with the tech that you use for your aquarium. For example.. I ve been searching for a 60g acrylic tank and I simply couldnt find one. We have here a common pet store called Zoo and Co. which is overall very good. They have all pets in general... but that is not enough.. I havent see any pet store specific for aquarium and fish keeping... Maybe in big cities like berlin or Muenchen. Is this the same case in Netherlands??

[dpete9]

Well we have some very good Discus Importers that run businesses out of their garages, they are actually quite good too. BUT they are spread out around the country and trying to get something like medicine or a specific item at a local pet store... you might as well forget it! I mainly order things online and have them delivered.. keep a "medicine chest" stocked because if you do run in to an emergency your discus could die before you get those meds delivered to you.. UGHH .. I found that out 2 yrs ago for something that was as simple and available everywhere in the US (epsom salt) for a couple of juvies that overate and had bloat.. anyways I started at grocery stores, then places like HEMA and Blokker nothing.. I went to a pharmacy and the lady laughed at me and said NOOOO! that's when i almost lost it.. oh well live and learn.. I knwo where to find the things i need now

[agwe]

Haha... Epsom salt... is the same case here... I wanted to treat flagellates with Epsom salt but couldnt find here. I later found one at a garden store following a german version of this forum.. But the lady there was doubtfull of its use to fishes. so i gave up the idea. . I also read in this particular german forum that hexamita works fine for sometime but the illness returns once you stop the dosage. My cobalt s fully recovered now.. atleast i think so... I will try stopping the dosage and keep the other params like water quality, pH, nitrate and nitrite to allowed limits and see if the fishes are still ok. if not... I think I will have to find other solutions.. What do you suggest??