Natural Albino Discus

[Cosgrovb]

Hudson, you indicate that the albino was received from the Cameta region. I guess that you were not the fisherman who caught the fish? What assurance or proof have you obtained from the individual or group that actually caught the fish? It seems the information that you are providing is second or third hand hearsay.

I want to believe. Please help!

[brewmaster15]

Al,

I defer to you on the genetics side as I am only trying to recall from information learned years ago I would not be able to confirm if discus albinism is only determined by two alleles different from other fish, reptiles, fruit flies, etc. My genetics course involved experimentation with eye color on fruit flies as we were told it was too complicated to isolate the genes that controlled albinism. I would assume that fish genetics was more complicated than a fruit fly, but I could be wrong.

On the incomplete albinism, wouldn't pattern on skin indicate presence of melatonin/pigment? Otherwise how would striations or pattern be visible?

Lol...please don't defer to me on it Mark...I'm no expert on Genetics, just sharing my opinions and thoughts like everyone else.
On your pattern question... a fishes pattern is made made up of more than Melanin. Its made up of other pigments...These pigments like the reds and oranges can still be displayed as they are are not based in melanin, but are literally "drops"of color in "chromatophores"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatophore My understanding is there are many forms of chromatophores, and its the melanophores that are affected by albinism in fish. I may be simplifying things there, or just plain wrong LOL.

-al

[hekdiscus]

Not that is directly related to anything exactly here...but its a interesting little article on a wild caught albino catfish from Brazil...

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?scri...rm=iso&tlng=en

One thing that caught my eye was this...
just thought I would flag that here for future reference.

-al

Dear Al.

I have friends researchers at IMPA, Research Institute of the Amazon, and there, in the museum of ichthyology, fish are deposited several albinos to studies, there are albino catfish, corydoras albino, Aruana albino, albino plecos, stingrays, and these fish were caught do in adulthood, they survived to adulthood and were not preyed.

About the piranhas, they existemem all rivers in some, they exist in greater quantities in other rivers in smaller quantities, I fish discus in places with few piranhas and 90% of discus that I select has no bite piranhas infirm, my underwater videos show that does not have any ***** next to discus the opinion of some laity becomes myth piranha, a super predator, man-eater and boats .......

see the link of my youtube page
http://www.youtube.com/user/HekDiscus?feature=mhee

[brewmaster15]

Dear Al.

I have friends researchers at IMPA, Research Institute of the Amazon, and there, in the museum of ichthyology, fish are deposited several albinos to studies, there are albino catfish, corydoras albino, Aruana albino, albino plecos, stingrays, and these fish were caught do in adulthood, they survived to adulthood and were not preyed.

Hi Hudson,
I'm not surprised as that article I posted seems to indicate a higher prevalence of albinism in fish due to their behavior..makes sense as they would in many cases be less inconvenienced by the albinism depending on when they are active.

-al

[hekdiscus]

Hudson, you indicate that the albino was received from the Cameta region. I guess that you were not the fisherman who caught the fish? What assurance or proof have you obtained from the individual or group that actually caught the fish? It seems the information that you are providing is second or third hand hearsay.

I want to believe. Please help!

Hi
I work with fish, I'm not hobyiest, and there's your opinion that will have value or not, the same way I can say that what you think has no importance whatsoever, it's just your opinion, thank you, view the Cosgrovb
What I can not say what it was that the spacecraft was plunged into the river, and entered this fish, I do not know if the ship was some secret American project.........
If I can find out, I'll inform this alien who put in the river, don't worry I will keep you informed......

Hudson

[Cosgrovb]

Lesson # 1 from Cosgrovb

Opinion - a statement of individual belief. Example... I BELIEVE that everything you read on the Internet is true.

Question - a request for an individual to provide information. Example... "What assurance or proof have you obtained from the individual or group that caught the fish?"

The telltale sign of the difference between an opinion and a question is punctuation. A statement is known as a declaratory sentence. Those sentences end with periods. Opinions must be statements. Now a question is easy to differentiate because it ends with question mark.

My post in response to yours.....

Now that we are clear that I made no opinions but rather asked a question.

Please humor us (me) and refrain from discussing aliens. When someone stands to earn a significant monetary gain ($) the suspicion index greatly increases. I'd be glad to offer 10 other possibilities other than aliens to explain a albino discus in your tank.

I am not calling you a liar. I am not saying the fish is a domestic being pawned off as a wild. Those would be opinions. I've thought it, but will not opine prior to being informed. That in English is known as ignorance (Lesson 2 )

I have asked for information. The main purpose of this forum. Opinions likely are second in line in this forum.

A great way to dispel the huge suspicion index would be to know that the fish was being donated to science for investigation. That would be what I would do if I found a one in a billion wild species/discus. Can you inform us what will happen to this specimen? Have DNA samples been taken? Have you placed Heiko on notice?

Please understand I don't know you, I love many of your fish you post. I seek information and not so much a confrontation. Although I'd be happy to confront, debate and argue if you'd prefer.

I'd feel like a mailman taking a walk on his day off if we dance to that song though....

Warmest regards.
Brad

[Ryan]

Brad,

Unless it was a typo, Hudson said this fish came to him in 2002. I'm assuming the picture was posted for reference, not because the fish is for sale. That fish is probably long gone now.

If that's the case, it's long before albino discus appeared for sale in the hobby. I don't remember anyone having albinos on their lists in 2002.

[hekdiscus]

Lesson # 1 from Cosgrovb

Opinion - a statement of individual belief. Example... I BELIEVE that everything you read on the Internet is true.

Question - a request for an individual to provide information. Example... "What assurance or proof have you obtained from the individual or group that caught the fish?"

The telltale sign of the difference between an opinion and a question is punctuation. A statement is known as a declaratory sentence. Those sentences end with periods. Opinions must be statements. Now a question is easy to differentiate because it ends with question mark.

My post in response to yours.....

Now that we are clear that I made no opinions but rather asked a question.

Please humor us (me) and refrain from discussing aliens. When someone stands to earn a significant monetary gain ($) the suspicion index greatly increases. I'd be glad to offer 10 other possibilities other than aliens to explain a albino discus in your tank.

I am not calling you a liar. I am not saying the fish is a domestic being pawned off as a wild. Those would be opinions. I've thought it, but will not opine prior to being informed. That in English is known as ignorance (Lesson 2 )

I have asked for information. The main purpose of this forum. Opinions likely are second in line in this forum.

A great way to dispel the huge suspicion index would be to know that the fish was being donated to science for investigation. That would be what I would do if I found a one in a billion wild species/discus. Can you inform us what will happen to this specimen? Have DNA samples been taken? Have you placed Heiko on notice?

Please understand I don't know you, I love many of your fish you post. I seek information and not so much a confrontation. Although I'd be happy to confront, debate and argue if you'd prefer.

I'd feel like a mailman taking a walk on his day off if we dance to that song though....

Warmest regards.
Brad

Caro Brad
I respect your opinion and I will not want to convince anyone it is really an albino or is fake, this fish was donated to a friend at the time a man aged 60, and he loved the Discus, today he is sick and could not join this discussion

Hudson

[hekdiscus]

Brad,

Unless it was a typo, Hudson said this fish came to him in 2002. I'm assuming the picture was posted for reference, not because the fish is for sale. That fish is probably long gone now.

If that's the case, it's long before albino discus appeared for sale in the hobby. I don't remember anyone having albinos on their lists in 2002.

Hi
At that time nobody liked wild discus, I was trying to start the recovery of wild discus, people only had eyes for the discus gear, not today, today after much work discsu the wild again be valued worldwide

Hudson

[brewmaster15]

Hey I have a suggestion here....Tried many ways to tone down a thread going south.... haven't tried this one yet, so lets give it a shot and see...

I can see this isn't going to tone down on its own and a Moderator(Pat) has already asked...so lets put it on the back burner a bit.. cool down a bit.

Thread locked...not permanent , I'll open it in day or two...maybe do a little pruning and we'll take if from there. Suggest parties having issues with each other, take it up off the board..

Thanks all,

negatives aside..I enjoyed the discussion and hope we can pick it again in a few days.

-al

[Second Hand Pat]

Discussion continues here...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...bino-Discus-02

[PhoenixLR]

Wow! This is like a soap scene. "Scandal in the Amazon", episode 1. Look to sum this up because no one has responded to this thread in a month, an albino is not man made so this fish is scarce in number, but not special. The argument of how color is a downfall and there should be bite marks is a poor one because albinos are not the only white fish in the amazon. Eyesite, a possible problem but only slight and that's at night. I am not saying this fish is wild but it's not worth insulting each other over. Take the guy at his word unless he wrongs somebody. p.s. I've seen many wild discus with perfect fins. This has to do with their place of living and equally how dominant they are. Dominant fish usially have nice fins...

[hekdiscus]

Wow! This is like a soap scene. "Scandal in the Amazon", episode 1. Look to sum this up because no one has responded to this thread in a month, an albino is not man made so this fish is scarce in number, but not special. The argument of how color is a downfall and there should be bite marks is a poor one because albinos are not the only white fish in the amazon. Eyesite, a possible problem but only slight and that's at night. I am not saying this fish is wild but it's not worth insulting each other over. Take the guy at his word unless he wrongs somebody. p.s. I've seen many wild discus with perfect fins. This has to do with their place of living and equally how dominant they are. Dominant fish usially have nice fins...

Hi Phoenixlr
yes, you are correct, the Plecos albino albino cats and fish, are also proof of this, and I found some, without the bites of piranhas, this proves that they are not as vulnerable as we imagine, in nature, is well different than in the film.

[Allwin]

Just curious, did heiko bleher ever responded?

Wonder what Heiko would say?