Deathly Ill Red Turq

[LJC123]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
• One of my Red Turq’s is very ill. Last month, I noticed one of my Discus seemed to be turning black often. It didn’t last long, so I thought it was just some stress from bickering amongst themselves. Then one day he had his fins clamped and not much energy. Now, this was a very stunted little guy that I had rescued from a swamp of a tank over a year ago, and I wasn’t exactly sure of his age, so I kinda thought he seemed to be getting old. Then, he started shrinking! I started daily water changes and increased temps, but lost him anyway a couple days later  Afterward, everything else seemed fine with the rest of the tank, until…It started with another one 4-5 days ago. This guy is only about a year old and very healthy, but he is now exhibiting the same symptoms…

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding,headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
• Half black on one side w/stressbars, almost all black on other
• Clamped fins
• Hiding
• Tail standing
• Not eating
• Loss of buoyancy, crashing into things

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

• Daily 50 water changes
• Increased temp
• Lights off more
• StressCoat


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

• 72g
• 2 other adult Discus, roughly same age
• 6 Glass Cats, 3”
• 1 Peacock Eel, 6”
• 1 Ghost Knife, 7”
• Absolutely no fighting except Discus heirarchy displays

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

• Weekly quarter water changes


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

• 5 years running (mine), purchased on CL so age unknown
• Nexx filter system
• Air curtain w/ Whisper 100
• 3” gravel bottom,
• Artificial plants
• Driftwood
• Glass tubes for eel/knife


7. Do you age your water? If you do, for how long and what is the ph swing?

• We use well water from filtered tap with ph of 8’ish


8. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.

• Pristine readings due to current daily water changes but these are pretty close to our normal, though we’ve always struggled with Nitrates, even on a good day…


- temp 86

- ph 6

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 0

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water 100

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
• We did add some new driftwood about 2 months ago that we had scrubbed and soaked in our clean pond, scrubbed again, dried and soaked again in the tub before adding.


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

PICS AT...

http://youtu.be/bPsoJwpwjd4

[Skip]

maybe edit this.. so you have only 1 questionnaire posted..

when you say.. fish was shrinking.. !?! do you mean it was getting thinner.. and not as thick as the others.

and now you have 2nd one doing the same?

[pcsb23]

We mostly have people who are reluctant to fill in the questionnaire, seems you did 5 times!! Post edited to contain the info only once

Generally half black discus have suffered some form of impact or other neurological stress. Usually they recover in a few weeks/months with nothing more than clean water. I think there is more going on here though and treating in a planted tank isn't always successful.

A qt tank would be useful, do you have one?

[Skip]

We mostly have people who are reluctant to fill in the questionnaire, seems you did 5 times!! Post edited to contain the info only once

i felt like ground hog day.. lol

thanks for edit

[pcsb23]

i felt like ground hog day.. lol

thanks for edit

hehe, no probs

[LJC123]

I was unaware that this posted more than once, sorry. IDK what caused that. I honestly only hit "Post" once, though I did try a couple times to add pics to my post and was unsuccessful, but I still don't know what happened. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Were you guys able to view my pics? I had so much trouble posting them. But the last one shows the shrinking. The black one had been the same size as the healthy one next to him. Also, if it's a bruise, why is he getting worse and hiding and tailstanding? And why did the other one die? Also, unfortunately, another Discus is hiding and dark today, so, yeah, I have a real problem here. Any ideas will be readily tried asap. Thanks!

[pcsb23]

I was unaware that this posted more than once, sorry. IDK what caused that. I honestly only hit "Post" once, though I did try a couple times to add pics to my post and was unsuccessful, but I still don't know what happened. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Were you guys able to view my pics? I had so much trouble posting them. But the last one shows the shrinking. The black one had been the same size as the healthy one next to him. Also, if it's a bruise, why is he getting worse and hiding and tailstanding? And why did the other one die? Also, unfortunately, another Discus is hiding and dark today, so, yeah, I have a real problem here. Any ideas will be readily tried asap. Thanks!

I managed to see the video, but no images. No images in the first post either, only the vid. Don't worry over the edit, it is no biggie.

It isn't a bruise, it is nerve damage.

The question remains qt tank?

[LJC123]

Yes, I can QT, but it's happening to another one now. I couldn't even find this one this morning, he's hiding so well. He's looking like the one in the pics did a couple days ago. And like the one we lost last week when it started with him. We're three for three now so I honestly think it's viral v/s accidental. So there's really no other ideas? No way I can stop this from progressing? I read somewhere to use Epsom salt or do a salt-dip but that scares me and I don't know how. If it's really nerve damage, and he's as bad as he is, just lying there, gasping for breath, should I help him pass? I just don't want this to happen to another one and I don't want to give up on him but I don't want him to suffer needlessly. God, I hate this :'(

[OC Discus]

Paul is very knowledgeable. Send him a pm and he might suggest a strategy for you, beginning with quarantine.

[OC Discus]

The fact that it is spreading from one fish to another indicates disease. Treating the fish in the tank with substrate and other fish will take many times longer than moving them to a sterile qt tank. While you treat the fish in qt you can try to resolve what is happening in the main tank. A number of issues seem possible:

1) Inadequate stocking level- minimum of 5-6 discus unless it is a breeding pair
2) Disease carried by other fish who have immunity
3) Issues in the substrate best resolved by removing the gravel and sterilizing the tank
4) Restock with discus only.

Best of luck

[Madaboutdiscus]

I'd say getting the discus out of the community tank and into a Barebottom discus only tank will make a big difference. How often is that gravel plastic tubes and artificial plants cleaned? Is it possible the eel and ghost knife are causing the discus problems? Any possible electric shock going on in your water (ie faulty heater or such)? If you can get a qt tank that'd be best at this point keep it Barebottom and clean and go from there.

~Victoria

[OC Discus]

The best chances of saving your sick fish would be to have a sterile quarantine tank- tank and filters sterilized with bleach, rinsed and dechlorinated before putting the sick fish in. Then keep the water pristine, bare bottom like Victoria said. Add medication only when you are certain what the problem is. Sometimes you will get conflicting advice. If so, go with one who is a moderator or administrator- they have proven knowledge and experience.

[pcsb23]

Paul is very knowledgeable. Send him a pm and he might suggest a strategy for you, beginning with quarantine.

Thanks for the compliment, but I'd rather people ask on open forum. That way we all have a chance to learn, including me.

[pcsb23]

I would get the qt tank set up, heater, filter and clean water. Move the discus into there and see how they respond. You will need to do daily water changes of around 50% making sure the new water is around the same temp. Have you had your well water tested recently? I'd guess it will be free of chlorine/chloramine etc?

The qt tank should have the bottom, back and sides covered or painted. It doesn't need a light, but a condensation cover makes sense if you have one.

From your description the fish are exhibiting extreme stress responses, something about their current tank isn't right, and it is probably the other inhabitants.