angels in the growout tank

[DiscusR1]

???Hello all I am new to the forum and was wondering if angels are good to keep with the discus in the grow out tank? thanks to all that help?

[Aquatic_Design]

Hi DiscusR1
Welcome to Simply ;D
There are some people who keep angels and discus together but I would not recommend doing so.
Angels can carry parasites that would be a problem for the discus. Angels are also much more aggressive feeders.
JMO
Donna

[DiscusR1]

Well Thank you,Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone else?????????

[redlines]

I would not keep them together in a grow out tank either.. Besides what is mentioned above the angels also produce a ton of waste which is not as solid as the Discus waste & will cause water conditions to break down quickly.

I would only consider keeping them together when the Discus are full grown and past their breeding prime and then only in a community tank set up. OR if I had a few cull Discus I wouldn't hesitate in keeping them with Angels just to observe.

Andy

[Smokey]

Welcome DiscusR1, to the forum.
Good question. I did put angel and discus together, same size, years ago. I admit it was nice to look at, however....
it was not a good choice. The angels were much more aggressive and territorial. And they did bully the discus ! Feeding time was almost a blood-bath, as the angels would drive the discus into submission. The discus always had damaged fins and even open wounds. In the end I lost a number of the discus to the angels. So, from my expierence, be wary and be very cautious . And I will never make the same mistake again !!!

hope this helps you make the right choice.

Smokey
(up to my knees in snow)

[RandalB]

Time for me to get yelled at. ;D

DiscusR1, I keep angels with discus in:

Growout tanks with skittish fish. ( 1 or 2 juvenile angels) Not doing this right now as I don't have any skittish fish.

In with my breeding pair. (1 Adult double black he's the canary in the coal mine and the target fish for the parents)

In with the 3 discus from Discus rescue who were emaciated, not eating and terrified on arrival. (1 adult double black) All now swim together and are doing very well.

I also have a baby red alquener (2&quot in with 5 blue blusher angels ($0.25 size) who was getting beaten up by all the other discus no matter what tank I put him in. The angels give him no problem and they all school together and eat together.

My rationale for my actions is this:

In with the skittish fish: Angels are not as smart/cautious as discus. Things that would freak out discus (my 2 year old pounding on the tanks for example)are completely ignored by the angels. The Discus seeing the angels are fine with the distubance, learn it is all right and normal. Same thing goes with siphon tubes.

In with the breeding pair: The angel gives the parents a target and something to defend the eggs against strengthening their parental instincts. The angel learned this pretty quickly and gives the parents wide berth when they are in the mood.

In with the 3 discus from Discus rescue: These are actually fish I got on a trade for some Angel pairs I had. They were horribly emaciated, skittish and not eating. For all that they were not sick and did not require disease treatment. Water at 88, a little salt and lots of food. The black angel in the tank made them more comfortable with the water change regimen and activity around the tank. When I first got them they would bang off the sides of the tank until they "passed out" (laying on the bottom) whenever I did a w/c now they are fine.

I don't discount any of the previous posts and I don't necessarily advocate what I'm doing. I'm just saying that It can be done and done sucessfully with appropriate precautions for the benefit of both fish (angels grow amazingly fast at discus conditions) . All the others have valid points. I get my angels from a breeder who I know personally and who's fishroom I've inspected. A lot of angel breeders overcrowd and don't maintain really clean tanks which will lead to parasite and disease problems. My breeder also breeds discus and keeps all his tanks that clean. In all cases though keeping angels that are smaller than the discus is vital. Angels that are big enough to spawn should be kept singly as they can definately get nasty when spawning.

IMHO,
RandalB

PS Let it fly all!

[DiscusR1]

Thanks randalb
The input fom everyone has been great and i have recently purchased many small discus and just want them to grow to the fullest. I already had the angels but did not know where to put them now i do.

Thanks again ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greg

[mas]

not sure about keeping angels in a grow out tank, but at least for me i think its ok. if you're worried perhaps get the angels when they're tiny so they grow up mostly in your tanks. ideally then there would be less chance of them having anything that isnt in your tank anyway. just a thought.

.marcus

[JeffreyRichard]

Based on my experiences (I commercially bred both discus and angels for 10 years), there is no real problems keeping both together. My angelfish did fine at the higher discus temperature (85 degrees). Also, while angelfish are a bit more aggresive eating, as long as you feed generously, you should not have a problem.

I've have seen the paracite comment (angelfish carry paracites deadly to discus ...) many times over the years ... I'm not buying it. I have angelfish that live with discus, and both are healthy. Hex, capillaria, certain bacteria and even flukes are deadly to both fish if left untreated. Until someone provides scientific evidence otherwise, I threat this comment as an old wives tail.

Just my opinions, based on my eperiences ...

Jeff Richard

[Smokey]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year .

This is a very interesting subject you have brought up, Greg.
It seems everyone shares the same concerns. The possibility of aggressive behaviour, of the angels. And the health issue.
The Health issue should be a no-brainer; " Never put un-quariented fish into a stocked tank !". I think this is a given. IIMO, even if I have raised the fish, I would be sure all are "safe", before mixing. Aggressive behaviour, this, a person can visually be aware of.
So, GO FOR IT.
let us know how it works out.
Smokey

[Ryan]

I think the big debate used to be that angels passed on capillaria to discus. They say it is because angels are carriers and do not seem affected by it, but that discus are highly sensitive to it. I also disagree with a lot of this. I take pride in knowing that I have healthy angelfish. They can be treated and cleaned up just like discus can be.

If you start out with clean fish, you are already on the right track. I used to keep angels in very warm water, 86F or so for juvies, 82 - 84F for adults. The only difference, so I am told, is that their metabolism will stay higher, resulting in a shorter lifespan for the fish. However, my angels lived 5 or 6 years on average, and at the time that was pretty good for me.

I had some baby LFS discus when I was about 14 or so. The owner and I had become friends and he sold them to me for $14 a piece. They were little cobalts from a local hobbyist breeder and were actually VERY decent fish. They were skittish and shy (I got 4 of them) so after several weeks in their 20 gallon tank, I mixed them into a 55 with a bunch of juvenile angels. The difference was like night and day. The discus ate, they swam around and chased the angels, they showed great color. All was wonderful. That was the best luck I think I've ever had with discus, especially considering the fact that I knew NOTHING about them at the time.

So yes, it is entirely possible. Some frown on it, and under some circumstances I think it's a bad idea (mixing adult angels with smaller discus could be problematic). As far as behavior goes, it's kind of like cats and dogs. Raise puppies and kittens together at a very young age and they'll never know that they didn't belong together.

Ryan