For those who have raised discus in planted tanks......

[Skip]

Lol skip, you must have had a really bad experience with substrate.

Well T, I did not have bad experience... My fish did.. These fish should be given best chance grow out.. Esp. Under 3".. As a newbie I read all the advice and still did it my way.. But I learned and I am trying to hrlp others not make same mistake.. But thats why we have the "help me now!!, because I dont listen or thought I knew better then SD" thread... Also new people dont understand fry dont all grow out at same rate.. Thus u can end up with runts that would have been culled

[strawberryblonde]

WOW Toni, very nice. What's your secret? It takes me another 5-6 months on average to reach the 5.5-6" (SL) mark once they reach 4-4.5"
I have them in a BB tank and still feed them 6x a day. Oh yeah, daily 80% WCs.

I think the slower growth rate is absolutely normal Par. I have NO idea why mine are growing like this! I am semi-retired and work from home when I do take on clients, so I have a distinct advantage in being able to monitor my tank all day long. My fish also eat nearly continuously during the day. I feed smaller amounts and just feed them about 6 times a day with a bedtime snack. I stop feeding when I see their tummies starting to round out.

So I have no clue why mine are shooting up the way they are. I don't think it's my Idaho water. The stuff has high pH. Though I think the GH and KH are actually low. I ordered the test kits and did the tests and don't know if I did them incorrectly or just am clueless on how to read the resutls. LOL

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So here is my disclaimer. I completely agree with Warlock that trying to raise juvies in a planted tank is a daunting task and that it's not something to tackle simply because you want to prove the good folks here wrong.

I had it easy, I started out with 4" fish from Hans! I would NEVER try this with anything less than 4"....can't even imagine trying it. I've also had to make a LOT of adjustments along the way as I found what worked and what was detrimental to the fish.

For instance, the EI method is NOT ever gonna work. I ended up putting my fish in buckets, tearing down my tank and replacing the substrate. I learned that you can't count on the plants for filtration at all. The plants ARE gonna suffer throught out the grow out period because you still have to do twice daily WC if you are feeding protein rich foods.

And on and on. Everyone is going to have a different experience, whether it be in a BB tank or a planted tank. And it's why I tell people who are determined to try it the planted way to be willing to do the WC's, feed well and make changes if and when things don't work.

Oh and I only answered Warlock's call for pics cuz I love teasing him. Not because I'm advocating growing out itty bitty discus in a planted tank.

[Skip]

Sb is cheating by starting with 4" fish! But it jus shows ur smarts!

[strawberryblonde]

Yup yup, I'm a very happy cheater. =)

I originally thought it would be fun to grow out some 2.5" juvies in my tank. And then I read all the posts on this forum. And I mean ALL the posts! I used the search tool to look up specific topics and spent hours each day reading. And once I'd read it all I realized that given my tank parameters (a pentagonal and HARD to clean tank) I'd be dumb to try raising little guys in it. It was just asking for trouble.

So I did the math and figured out that raising five 4" discus in this tank was more practical and not more expensive than raising 10 2.5" juvies. And now that I have a 150g tank coming on Friday, I will be able to order 4 more 4" discus in order to fill out the tank and create a happy group.

And I can finally have my cardinal tetras...woot! And more sterbai cories...double woot! And I will never have to bend my arm backwards, sideways and inside out in order to reach the back corner of my tank cuz I won't HAVE a back corner!!

Yup yup, a very satisfied and happy cheater.

[wannafish]

"What was your greatest challenge in taking care of discus in a planted tank?" my question
"then why bother asking, if your mind is already made up.." your answer lol?

Mind is made up on having a planted tank, that's why I made a question for people with experience in that area..


Yea I'm a newb, I've read enough stuff on this website to make me a pro.. the only thing missing is the first hand experience with the fish.

I'm sure I'll make mistakes, hell I'll probably even regret doing it... Learning the hard way is the right way LOL

There is no better lesson than experience. And this takes time. The reason some of these guys are pros,
is because they have learned from the time they have put into it, and the trial and errors to become experienced people with raising discus and planted tanks. I have read a lot here, but you don't see the results of what you have read until you apply it to you own tank. I was a newbie once. A lot of newbies want instant results. A discus tank with plants. And that's not going to happen. It's takes time and maintenance and water changes to have expected results in this area. Expected results are not instant results. I think if you do the work you will have success.

Jeff

[Harriett]

If u go planted then get adult fish... If u want to grow out, use smaller bb tank...

I have raised juvies both in a planted tank [first batch] and many times in BB tanks and I totally agree that this is the approach of choice for me--it proved soooo much easier to raise juvies in a BB tank than in the planted tank--my rule is firmly 1 year or 6 inches, whichever comes first--then discus can get plopped into a planted tank....but the truth is, even that outlook has changed for me recently. I had the 180g planted for most of the last 10 years until about 4 months ago. I pulled all the plants, left the pool sand and LOTS of branchy wood, and set up some smaller planted tanks with little shoals of other sorts of light pooper fish and I am more relaxed about things.

The big tank stays considerably cleaner because I can get to every area with the python with ease, down to the glass bottom of the tank. I do like the look [although wilds or wild appearing discus would look better than these old assorted domestics do--they look rediculous to me]. My planted tank hobby has a different sort of reference point and I think I will keep it like this for a while.

Just rambling!
Best regards to all,

Harriett

[judy]

ok, warlock, here's your pics. you will see the oldest of my babies, the red melons from two different generations, a few adults of my pairs, a juvie about 4.5 inches who's the kept baby from my red turqs, and two youngsters about 3 inches, from my snakeskin pair. They're coming along nicely. They are not growing at an exponential rate, but they are shaping up well and are very happy. Note this tank was just converted to barebottom about two weeks ago. The 4.5 inch boy is about five months old, and for some reason has grown quite quickly. The 3 inchers are about four months old. For size reference, in the first pic, the turq on the left, an adult from a mated pair, is about six inches. His baby is the 4.5 incher.

baretank-5.jpgbaretank-6.jpgbaretank-4.jpgbaretank-2.jpgbaretank.jpg

[ericatdallas]

Has anyone considered a RFUG? I've read a lot about them and there are a lot of people discouraging it, but I think I still want to give it a try in my planted tank (definitely with adult discus).

I figured I would run two reverse power heads (maybe 170-200gph) to two UGF plates. I've seen a lot of people have success even with plants in other forums. This will also lift the debris.

The main reason the planted tank folks hate this is because it deprives the plants of mulm and you have to have a very good mechanical filtration system. I'll be running it with two AC110s for mechanical filtration. Also, it's supposedly bad because the roots will get disrupted but several people that did it, said it wasn't a problem because the flow rate was so low.

Why it works for planted tanks -> easy to dose ferts to roots, CO2 diffuse from bottom directly to the roots.

I think the reason everyone else hates it is because UGF has gotten such a bad rap over the last few years. They're hard to remove. If you have fish that dig, it can create uneven water flow. Debris can get caught under rocks and decorations.

I'm spending way too much money right now on fish, but it's something I'm considering. Like the others, I prefer plantd tanks for display and I think they look nice. Although having done it, it is a pain to keep clean.

The other option might be to increase water flow at the bottom of the tank to lift mulm up to the filters.

[judy]

the thing with that configuration is that you are likely to draw both nitrates and sulphur dioxide up from the substrate into your water column, along with DOCs and truly, I don't think plants do all that well in a RFUG... I had one many years ago. was a constant battle with DOCs... and nitrates. Plants survived but did not flourish.

[ericatdallas]

the thing with that configuration is that you are likely to draw both nitrates and sulphur dioxide up from the substrate into your water column, along with DOCs and truly, I don't think plants do all that well in a RFUG... I had one many years ago. was a constant battle with DOCs... and nitrates. Plants survived but did not flourish.

Will there still be SO2 if it's in the RFUG confiug? Part of the point of the RFUG is to keep the substrate oxygenated so that there isn't the anaerobic bacteria to create SO2, or so I thought? I honestly don't know, but I did think it was only a problem when the substrate wasn't properly aerated and cleaned.

As for DOCs, similarly, isn't the RFUG supposed to push it into the mechanical filtration (the two AC110s I mentioned?). What kind of mechanical filtration did you have with your RFUG?

NO3, no idea... I kind of assumed the plants were supposed to take care of that. I would actually think if you had a NO3 problem you could clean out your mechanical filters and do a PWC. I think part of the problem with regular flow UGFs is that it kept the DOCs below the substrate therefore creating a lot of nitrates if you didn't siphon it out via the tubes. The flipside of no RFUG or UGF is the DOCs in the substrate as well.

[judy]

yeah, there can be SO2 in the RFUG setup. the flow in the substrate is not necessarily even and there can still be pockets, especially the further away you get from the uptake tubes and in areas wehre the substrate compacts more-- like under driftwood. I used two AC 110s, too, oddly, and they just couldn't suck up the amount of DOCs generated-- mechanical filtration picks up even very fine debris, but doesn't do much on fully dissolved organics-- and those, of course, are the lovely stuff that fuels nitrate buildup. Even a heavily planted tank can't absorb all the nitrates produced. Interestingly, though, there is some evidence that an undisturbed substrate will actually develop nice colonies of nonaerobic (unaerobic??) bacteria that consume nitrates, just as similar bacteria do in deep sand beds in reef tanks (I have one of those).
As well, the undisturbed substrate will trap the SO2 and allow it to leach very slowly into the water column and dissipate in amounts too small to harm the fish. It's only when you get in there with a stick or vacuum and shove it around that you'll release giant stinky very bad bubbles...

[MKD]

Yes, i would do it again but I'll have to set up planted tank first to make sure run well before adding discus. I did it opposit. There is sticky from Carol about planted discus tank areadly warn to newbie doing both plant and discus at the same time. There are so many things involve with planted discus tank, alot of fixes and balances for discus and plants. for example plant only, each plant requires different thing like soil, fert, co2, light, scape decorating....etc, just only that you have to make a few adjustments to make it right and like a look at it. I don't want to say "no one", not many people able to do it right on the first time and happy with the look. I have read many "redo, rescape" threads. so plants and juvie discus = high errors. Just my 2 cents experience.



edited: Sticky not from Carol - here is the link from Mark
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ed-Discus-tank

[x2h]

it's funny i have been thinking setting up a planted tank like Judy's. Good work Judy! My plants are arriving next week: 2 swords mother plants, 3 swords large size, and 10 crypts. All will be planted into clay pots with soils.

[fireman5214]

i have a planted grow out tank and I would never do barebottom as they look ugly to me and also i am all for as real as it gets. I have lost one fish because we could not find out what type of disease it had all of a sudden such as swiming fine in the morning and at the end of the night it was in bad shape. Keeping substrate clean is not as hard as people make it out to be, just dont over feed them.

[Skip]

Keeping substrate clean is not as hard as people make it out to be, just dont over feed them.

yes.. that helps if you have larger older fish.. grow outs.. not so much