Making Mistakes - 55g planted tank (mis)adventure

[ravvlet]

Fish are looking good! Are you saying then to read the test immediately and not wait the 5 min? You say you are adding water straight from the tap, are you adding straight cold or are you adjusting the temp at the faucet?

Adjusting temp at faucet! I’ve done it every day for almost two months now so I know the angle the knob has to be at to hit the right temp, haha. My heaters are co-op branded so they have a digital temp readout.

No, I think it means to read the test tube right after dosing with prime, not a few hours later.

I’m considering trying a different water conditioner in conjunction with Seachem Stability instead; stability should help if there is ammonia in the tank, and other water conditioners don’t usually result in a false positive.

Also relived to say we got our water bill and it’s nothing crazy like last time! In fact, in spite of daily water changes our water useage was lower than this time last year! I’m so relieved. I was scared we’d get a monster bill and I’d have to figure out how to keep the tank clean without the freedom to do daily changes. Now it’s no worries. Just gonna keep chugging along here.

[ravvlet]

So far I am seeing less ammonia reading, a day after switching to API’s tank conditioner. Since my water bill isn’t biting me in the butt yet, I might also risk doing bigger water changes or doing them twice a day…I’m STILL seeing <0.5 ammonia, and I really really wish it was zero.

I am also adding Seachem stability back to the tank with water changes to help. Fish look ok. Guy with the head bonk seems alright, still see a bit of missing scale. The other fish I measured has a couple scratches too, same area, and I suspect for the same reasons.

These punks only want to eat blackworms. I give them blackworm, prime reef flakes, and Xtreme beef heart flakes. I try to only give blackworm once a day, as I’m not sure if it’s nutritionally complete. They also hilariously aren’t smart enough to figure out when the worms float away and come beg at me when it’s floating right above them!

The sad thing about them helping themselves to my snails and shrimp is that now there’s nothing in there eating algae, and I’m getting real sick of scrubbing it off plants. It’s the crud I KNOW the shrimp love too - I have been wadding it up when I pull it and feeding it to my shrimp tanks, where it disappears. I may start up my 20L as a quarantine for some of the higher temp tolerating corydoras, but I want to research what would be the best species first. Cory’s came to mind mostly because they won’t go after a slime coat.

[jwcarlson]

Are you using the Aquarium Co-Op ammonia strips to test, ravvlet? If so, I don't think I've ever shown less than whatever the lowest color on the chart it. It's to the point where I just assume that it's either just a "my water" thing or it's so sensitive that it's picking up a trace amount? I've experienced the same with nitrite on their multi test strips. Levels that should be killing my fish (like alarmingly dark immediately upon dipping) and the fish are just as happy as can be. When my tanks are well cycled, they don't have any color at all on the pad. Again, because I see absolutely no ill effects, I assume that it's not an actual problem. I still change water accordingly, but I'm not panicking about it necessarily.

Unfortunately, the corys aren't going to eat any algae. I have a couple bristlenose with my discus and I've never had any issues with them.

[ravvlet]

Are you using the Aquarium Co-Op ammonia strips to test, ravvlet? If so, I don't think I've ever shown less than whatever the lowest color on the chart it. It's to the point where I just assume that it's either just a "my water" thing or it's so sensitive that it's picking up a trace amount? I've experienced the same with nitrite on their multi test strips. Levels that should be killing my fish (like alarmingly dark immediately upon dipping) and the fish are just as happy as can be. When my tanks are well cycled, they don't have any color at all on the pad. Again, because I see absolutely no ill effects, I assume that it's not an actual problem. I still change water accordingly, but I'm not panicking about it necessarily.

Unfortunately, the corys aren't going to eat any algae. I have a couple bristlenose with my discus and I've never had any issues with them.

I use the API test kit. I didn’t know they had ammonia strips!

[ravvlet]

I am so tired.

Home show video might be the last time you see these guys; I dunno what happened between today and yesterday (maybe it’s because I stopped dosing with prime) but several of them look to have HITH. It’s early yet as the spots are tiny but I am given to understand the prognosis is generally grim. I am going to do a big water change with Prime and Stability. I only have Kanaplex, API Fin and Body and aquarium salt on hand - not sure if any of those work.

They were fine a week ago, which is unspeakably frustrating.

[ravvlet]

Looks like I just need to grab metro? I’m ordering it to be delivered tomorrow. In the mean time I’ll start them on kanaplex.

Would removing all the substrate help at this point or just mess my cycle up again? Grrr, argh! My goldfish tank is back down to zero ammonia but Sparkle Taco has a blemish on one fin that I’m also hitting with kanaplex.

I have API Fin and Body too, which contains an antibiotic, but I don’t remember which one. I’m hesitant to use it as it melted all the plants in my betta tank when I had to add it there.

[jwcarlson]

Do you have a picture of the suspected HITH, ravvlet?

Metro would be the treatment, yes, but it would be good to see a picture. I battled a flareup of something HITH-like, but do not believe that's what it was/is.
https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...ot-on-forehead

[ravvlet]

Do you have a picture of the suspected HITH, ravvlet?

Metro would be the treatment, yes, but it would be good to see a picture. I battled a flareup of something HITH-like, but do not believe that's what it was/is.
https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...ot-on-forehead

Yeah, here, I took one of the most likely suspect!

IMG_2813.jpg

Their stool isn’t white though? Sorry for poop picture, but it’s a nice normal brown after breakfast this morning.
image.jpg

[ravvlet]

I swear the photos are the bane of my existence. Let me clear up the one I took or try for a better one.

IMG_2817.jpg
image.jpg

I am assuming these tiny holes on their “beak” area are not normal?

I won’t add meds until I hear from you but I am going to do a big water change.

[jwcarlson]

Fish "faces" are covered in sensory pits and I think that's what we're seeing in the pics. I believe that those can be irritated by water quality, so maybe you're just seeing some inflammation or something in the pits?
I won't offer you any treatment options as I am by no means experienced enough to do so. I've never dealt with HITH in discus. Someone better equipped will comment, I'm sure.

Changing water is never the wrong answer with discus though, I don't think. I'd keep changing as much as you can every day at least for the time being.

Regarding tearing your substrate out, I don't think it would necessarily massively disrupt your cycle. But it's obviously going to be a big mess. I do think it's probably the right thing to do for long-term water quality, but it's tough to know if it has anything to do with the current possible issue.

[ravvlet]

I think I am going to talk to my partner about getting a bigger tank ASAP. Should have just figured out how to fit a 18in wide tank in the first place.

I am seeing people locally giving 75 gallons away, and I have access to a lot of inexpensive wood and a wood shop. I think I can throw together a stand Saturday, and find a 75 or a 90. No substrate this time and I’ll spray paint the bottom black - on the outside.

I want to do a better job with these guys than I’ve been doing. My poor Fluval gravel vac needs a new filter pad every time I vacuum in here because it’s so dirty. I do 30% water changes every single day at 8pm. It’s 10am now and I just did a 50% change, added prime, and added Stability. I’m going to dose with aquarium salt also.

I vacuumed half the tank around the sponge filter and netted out as many snails as I could get and threw them into my “plant only” nano tanks where they should be fine.

Thanks for the quick response! Hoping someone who has seen HITH can tell me if I should be worried. I ordered Metroplx and more Kanaplex just in case I need them.

I figure my betta survived a really disgusting bacterial infection thanks to a deep clean, complete change of substrate and meds - you can’t even tell he at one point was missing half his scales (seriously happened over three days or so). If he can survive that I’m thinking if I act fast and do TWICE daily big water changes (50%) the discus will be ok.

My partner fed the goldfish this morning and the kanaplex/water change/salt regimen did its job and whatever fuzz was on his left pectoral fin is all gone. Whew. Glad I caught it early. If I upgrade the discus to a big tank I might can swap my goldfish and his crew to the 55, though I’d need a new light, so maybe not.

[jwcarlson]

I'd suggest spray painting the bottom a light color, personally. There's a product called "stone creations" from... one of the spray paint makers... Rustoleum maybe. It's textured and looks maybe a bit better than just a solid color. You can see a bit of what it looks like (on the bottom, outside) in the corner of this picture and in the picture of the ram on eggs. The only issue is trying to get it under any supports on the bottom. I've done a 75, 55, and 125 with it. I like it. The supports always stand out. But the positives outweigh the negatives, IMO.

Bare bottom is the way to go, substrate is an absolute pain-in-the-neck if you're trying to keep something clean.

[ravvlet]

I'd suggest spray painting the bottom a light color, personally. There's a product called "stone creations" from... one of the spray paint makers... Rustoleum maybe. It's textured and looks maybe a bit better than just a solid color. You can see a bit of what it looks like (on the bottom, outside) in the corner of this picture and in the picture of the ram on eggs. The only issue is trying to get it under any supports on the bottom. I've done a 75, 55, and 125 with it. I like it. The supports always stand out. But the positives outweigh the negatives, IMO.

Bare bottom is the way to go, substrate is an absolute pain-in-the-neck if you're trying to keep something clean.

Good news, I think you’re right about the sensory organs, as the spots haven’t gotten bigger in any way. I added aquarium salt and have been more cautious about amount that I am feeding and they look fine. One of them had a slime coat issue that has resolved now. I’m keeping an eye on them but avoiding more salt if I can because there’s still snails and of course the plants.

Stupid question; once they’re “grown out” is it safe to have substrate?

[jwcarlson]

It is probably more safe when full grown as you're making less mess with feed. To be honest, bare bottoms are kind of addictive. All but three of my tanks are bare now.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi ravvlet, I think your substrate/plants etc is working against you with keeping these guys healthy. The rock substrate may be catching too much junk etc. Moving these guys to a BB sounds like a great idea.
Pat