2012 NADA Convention Show Challenge

[ShinShin]

Liz,

I agree, but for whatever reasons, I have to come here to find out NADA business. I asked a question on NADA and was given a link here. Why wasn't the info on NADA. It concerned an activity at the NADA show. LOL

[LizStreithorst]

I know, I know....It ain't the way things should work. I guess there just ain't enough NADA members who give a damn. The discussion is open to all NADA members. I don't know why I give a flying f if nobody else cares. Here we are trying to better the hobby and everyone, including most of the BODs, could care less. It's frustrating, to say the least.

[nc0gnet0]

I think exactly the way Matt laid it out would be perfect. And as Liz states, it would take a few shows for it to grab hold most likely. Verification might be problematic, but that in and of itself does not negate the fact that it is a wonderfull idea. If it in fact (verification) does becoome an issue, then that could be addressed in future shows if the class was deemed to be a success.

Show quality fish are as much a game of numbers as they are genetics, the top 1% of a group of thousands will always have a distinct advantage over the top 1% of a group of a 100.

Rick

[cjr8420]

Okay, things are getting stretched beyond the scope that I had in mind.

1. Egg laid in your tank.
2. Fry raised in your tank.
3. Juvie to adult in your tank.
4. Bagged in your tank to bring to show.

In other words, egg to show, meaning, the discus lived it's entire life in the exhibitors tank. Pro breeder and importers are not eligible. Period.

That was my suggestion for the show.

This is a home spawned category for hobbyists only. It is not meant to be a rookie/amateur division because people feel they cannot compete. I have always been opposed to this type thinking. A home spawned category would allow hobbyist/breeders to show their accomplishments. It is not a category of diminished quality.

Mat

ok u say its not rookie/amateur division or category of diminished quality but that what u make it when u dont allow pro breeders or imports which some of the parents of these homebred fish would be from anyways .would this new class be a north american homebred best in show only or divided in to more classes spots fine line ect.if there is prize money involved there will be cheaters.sry to say greed makes the world go round.i like the thought of of the homebred class just not enough pros to the amount of cons.imo

[Larry Bugg]

ok u say its not rookie/amateur division or category of diminished quality but that what u make it when u dont allow pro breeders or imports which some of the parents of these homebred fish would be from anyways .would this new class be a north american homebred best in show only or divided in to more classes spots fine line ect.if there is prize money involved there will be cheaters.sry to say greed makes the world go round.i like the thought of of the homebred class just not enough pros to the amount of cons.imo

At this point in time there are no cash prizes for the NADA Show. That doesn't mean there won't be at some point and that could certainly affect the cheating aspect. As Mat has outlined this would not actually be a "Class" but rather an award. There would be one winner which would be picked from all the classes combined (spots, fine line, ect.).

[Sean Buehrle]

This is a stupid question but will help me with some questions I have about some stuff that's been said here.

How often do you nada members see a fish here on simply or on another board like nada's website throughout its growing process? With the said fish being entered in the show.

When you see a fish from nada's members at the show or anyone else for that matter, is it usually a surprise? Do you guys/ girls keep them a secret?

Thanks.

[kent1963]

I think having a "home breed and raised" class would encourage people to bring in their fish. A lot of people are intimidated by the big breeder-importers and don't enter fish of high quality thinking they have no chance to compete. I have only entered 1 fish in a show that was many years ago when I was perhaps 16 . I thought he was "pretty good" not great . I still have the trophy "best in class" and honorable mention best in show. Often we are most critical of our own fish, I think their are plenty of regulars on this site that own fish who would do quite well in this show.

[Chad Adams]

I have left my comments on the NADA site.

Liz,
Have I ever told you that you are my favorite non-NADA BOD member? LOL

Chad

[yim11]

My $0.02...

This is a stupid question but will help me with some questions I have about some stuff that's been said here.

Good questions, not stupid IMO.

How often do you nada members see a fish here on simply or on another board like nada's website throughout its growing process? With the said fish being entered in the show.

I can't say that I've ever seen a fish chronicled here (or any other site) from start to finish that was entered in a show. That being said, I do know of fish in shows that came from home spawns, just no one took pics on a regular basis over the grow out.

When you see a fish from nada's members at the show or anyone else for that matter, is it usually a surprise? Do you guys/ girls keep them a secret?

Based on the Dallas show - we had a strong hobbyist showing IMO, and about half were very open about their ownership of the show fish and about half laid low, and might only confirm it was their fish if asked. The best part was you couldn't tell which were the hobbyist fish. Usually people are pretty open about what categories they will enter, but sometimes private about the details of the fish.

----

My concern here is that we might not be addressing the actual problem, and that seems to be hobbyist don't want to show their fish next to "pros". If that's the case, a new or different class might not be the best solution. Maybe more show education could help - like us posting the score sheet so people can see not just where their fish might loose points but also where it will get higher points, so they don't just focus on the defects but the strengths of the fish as well. The University is a great forum area to see how many hobbyist fish have been scored and can be scored if you think you have potential Atalanta winner.

I can tell you from experience that to show your fish in a tank next to a "pro" and be judged at the same level, and do well, is a great feeling.

[ShinShin]

Jim,

I don't care one bit if hobbyists don't want to compete head to head or discus to discus in a class with the best that importers bring. I have always been against a two tier show in that regard. This would be an award not a class, as was pointed out, for a hobbyist who takes the time to breed his own. I don't think it is off base for NADA to encourage hobbyists to breed their fish with a plan and a goal in mind. You see what is happening today - mutt city - and it is actually being encouraged by some, along with rainbow gravel or Barbie Dolls in tanks. lol

As far as posting sheets, not all discus are scored. Some are elimenated from the initial walk through. It would take too long to judge them all like the ACA wanted us to do in Cincinnati. Then some people would complain about no sheet for their fish.

[terps]

This person has a very good aquatic youtube channel. He has videos of the discus at the Duisburg show and how they were judged. Pause the video and look at how each discus was scored in each category.





Here's his channel to see more videos of discus at the show and other fish.

http://www.youtube.com/user/n03lzz/videos

[nc0gnet0]

Just out of curiousity, what should a discus score in the university section before it should be considered "show worthy"? I understand this is a bit of a tricky question as the university awards points for presentation.

[LizStreithorst]

That's somewhat of an unfair question. It's like asking to be evaluated by experts before you take the risk of showing. Use your eye and risk it. What's the harm? If you don't win you won't be disgraced. Most all of the fish entered don't win. Think of it as I do; a tiny contribution to the betterment of the hobby and a huge learning experience.

Some judges here are, IMO, overly kind. Others are honest. I don't think that any are brutal.

It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH easier to get the Gestalt of a fish as well as see it's fine points when you see it in person rather than in pictures. These poor guys here are generally presented with terrible pictures. That makes their job next to impossible.

I have never judged fish other than choosing the best I could buy for myself (oops, I forgot. Once I was asked to judge a when the guy they asked to judge didn't appear). It was before the NADA shows. Given the circumstances they had no better choice).

Ya'll don't know. It is very difficult evaluating every aspect of a fish and making it gel with your instinctive feeling. When I judge a fish presented in the Universtiy simply to compare what I think to what the big guns think sometimes they change my mind about the fish and sometimes they don't.

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm with you Liz as in what's the harm. For us show newbie's, do it for the experience. If you win something consider it a plus. If I come I am considering bring a cute little Uatama blue. It's not that big but has a cute little shape on it and presents its self nicely.

[LizStreithorst]

Well, that will make two of us, Pat. I'd like so see some others commit.