What is considered heavy breathing ?

[chipmunk636]

I have 7 discus in my 55 and they don't breath equally , i notice that my 2 Pigeons that i added couples weeks ago are breathing a little faster , after a closer look i noticed that they were using only one gills and the other is almost clamped , moving at maybe 20% .

is that normal , should i worry ?

i tried the search on this and i found one thread , response suggesting its nothing to worry about ?

The 5 other turq look normal , but breath a little fast side , when i look at video , i see fish that breath super slowly , while some other breath like mine .

Its frustrating not nowing what it is ,because all my previous pigeon blood have done the same thing , they were all breathing extremly fast for months , i sold them to my buddy who just started in fish keeping and know nothing , i told him to do at least 2-4 wc a week , and he do 1-2 20% weekly max (no aged water),he don't feed well, maybe 1-2 time a day using only tetra bits and bloodworms, surprisingly he has the fish for more than a month and they have grow a little bit ,no loss , breath little slower , while i have lost 5 of those fish before selling them to him in not much more time , i was doing daily wc with aged water and feeding more like you suggest .

the tank have a sponge filter and a fluval 305

temp 84.5

ammo:0
nitrites:0
nitrates:5
ph 7.2

50-60% daily with aged , airated, heated water, 2 cap of prime on each wc.
tank is running for 3+ yrs

i can post a little vid and lets see what you think ...

thanks

[chipmunk636]

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/flatspin636/th_001-12_zps3b74c716.jpg (http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/flatspin636/001-12_zps3b74c716.mp4)

[Eddie]

Fish in the video is breathing normal. Your temp is at the high side for discus, nothing to worry.

[chipmunk636]

Alright thanks!

Maybe just paranoya because they are not 2-3$ fish ..!

I made the wc just after the vid , shut down one light and leave the fish alone for some time , i just cheked back and they were breathing with the 2 gills , maybe they are just a little more stressed with traffic in front and light on ...

What do you suggest , 1 degree drop? What is overall "safer" if that make sense ?

[Eddie]

Alright thanks!

Maybe just paranoya because they are not 2-3$ fish ..!

I made the wc just after the vid , shut down one light and leave the fish alone for some time , i just cheked back and they were breathing with the 2 gills , maybe they are just a little more stressed with traffic in front and light on ...

What do you suggest , 1 degree drop? What is overall "safer" if that make sense ?

It depends, really a personal preference but the general consensus is to keep adults around 82F.

[chipmunk636]

Ok thank you !

[chipmunk636]

The smallest of the 2 pigeon i got lately have less bright color , and he is not eating on the last 2 meal , he act normal , school with the other, but is red is shaved a bit compared to the other , should i worry ?

[Eddie]

The smallest of the 2 pigeon i got lately have less bright color , and he is not eating on the last 2 meal , he act normal , school with the other, but is red is shaved a bit compared to the other , should i worry ?


Still eating though, not to worry.

[chipmunk636]

No hes not eating for today and maybe yeterday , when i feed all the turq come up but he stay near the heater, where i think i want to breed or at least its thier spot, I notice that the smaller pigeon concerned have is belly full or at least it look like , can he be constipated?

[Eddie]

No hes not eating for today and maybe yeterday , when i feed all the turq come up but he stay near the heater, where i think i want to breed or at least its thier spot, I notice that the smaller pigeon concerned have is belly full or at least it look like , can he be constipated?

Could be, pictures?

[chipmunk636]

Hi !
Same problem ..

Picture are from 5 min ago , is belly look full to me , no feeding today til now but he didn't eat , i left at 6h am and didn't put any light ...

So i suppose its 2-3 day without eating , is color is washed away more today, i dropped the temp to 83 yesterday , but we got a huge storme today and its an old house , temp was at 81.5 on my fluval heater when i came home , i will up it to 82-83...

What do you think ?

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/flatspin636/001-12_zps9998c5ab.jpg

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/flatspin636/004-4_zps1e3bb4d6.jpg

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/flatspin636/005-1_zps81f70a0f.jpg

[Tommy Saville]

Regarding temperature, most experts here in UK prefer 86F for Discus ! And they also say that 86 helps to keep Ich and other parasites at bay. However, it's recommended that an airstone is in the tank because higher temperature means less dissolved oxygen.

[Eddie]

Regarding temperature, most experts here in UK prefer 86F for Discus ! And they also say that 86 helps to keep Ich and other parasites at bay. However, it's recommended that an airstone is in the tank because higher temperature means less dissolved oxygen.

That's interesting, adults too. I'll have to swing on over to BIDKA more often.

[Eward]

Hi
I'm having a similar issue with my PB. Not eating as much, seems to be breathing a little harder,faster than the others, and isolating himself (herself?) . His color is fine, and I don't notice any other odd behavior. I thought it might be due to a shift in the "power structure" in the tank.. Who is the Alpha, and so forth.. I did a larger than normal water change today because I noticed my ph and nitrates were up a bit. Hope it helps.

[chipmunk636]

I just came back from work , and he is looking the same ,i have to say all fish look happy though , can it be a breeding behaviour?

Yesterday , about 5 min after my 50% wc all fish were in the corner, the big PB was breeding with a turq and other female was like me too next to him. The other pb was just next to them , they all act normal , expect when feeding he is not so interested...

I will keep an eye on him , other suggestion ? salt ?

[Eddie]

No, definitely not breeding behavior.

[chipmunk636]

Can it be the light ? I'am just throwing idea, because this morning he was back to normal in therm of color , no wc yesterday since i was too much tired of my day , he is still not much interested in food , but don't act sick at all .

Temps was back to 84 and i added a little spoon of salt .

[YSS]

I have noticed that some of my discus lose interest in food for a few days before getting ready to spawn. However, the fish in question is a new fish. I have also noticed that a new fish I added acted fine and ate well for the first week or so, then stopped eating and ended up getting sick. It was a few years ago, so don't really recall the exact details. You may have a few things to look out for. Good luck.

Also, regarding heavy breathing... I was concerned for a while that all of my fish were breathing heavily. I added an airstone in the tank and breathing slowed down considerably. You may want to give that a try if you are concerned with heavy breathing.

[chipmunk636]

Thanks for the reply!

I know they were eating less when breeding , my pig male eat much less also, i will try adding an airstone , i just a a sponge filter for oxygenation.

I hope he is not getting sick .

[hironobu]

I have 7 discus in my 55 and they don't breath equally , i notice that my 2 Pigeons that i added couples weeks ago are breathing a little faster , after a closer look i noticed that they were using only one gills and the other is almost clamped , moving at maybe 20% .

is that normal , should i worry ?

Sounds like gill flukes to me. If this is still happening you should consider medication. You can consider treating with Praziquantel or PraziPro. When they're sick they won't eat and swim around like discus normally would.

[chipmunk636]

They didn't do it again at least when i am here , as for medication , how much it cost and where i can get it ?

[hironobu]

I was told by a wise man once that medication is ALWAYS the last resort. And it stands true after my very short 5 years of keeping and breeding discus. If they haven't displayed that symptom again then just treat them with good quality water and good warm temperature (30 degrees IMO). I bought mine at a LFS, not sure which will be a good place in Montreal. Try the store you bought the fish from, if that is where you bought them.

[chipmunk636]

No lfs don't have discus that size here ! I got them from an independent seller on calssified , he import them .I will just keep an eye on them .

[chipmunk636]

double post

[hironobu]

They didn't do it again at least when i am here , as for medication , how much it cost and where i can get it ?

Try mops.ca under Parasitic-Medications. Everything is more expensive and harder to find in Canada. Oh well.

[chipmunk636]

Thanks for the link! I will know where to get them if needed , prazipro at 12$ is good price !

[Eddie]

Thanks for the link! I will know where to get them if needed , prazipro at 12$ is good price !

Prazipro is pretty useless unless you are treating for tapeworm.

[chipmunk636]

Still not eating ,but don't act sick, i don't know if i should do something or wait?

[PP_GBR]

C:

If a discus lost interest in food, there is something wrong with him. Is his stomach still swollen?

http://www.archersdiscus.com/disease_21.html

http://discus-fish-care.blogspot.com/2008/11/bloat-swollen-belly.html


HTH

[Eddie]

C:

If a discus lost interest in food, there is something wrong with him. Is his stomach still swollen?

http://www.archersdiscus.com/disease_21.html

http://discus-fish-care.blogspot.com/2008/11/bloat-swollen-belly.html


HTH

Could also be something is wrong with the water.

[chipmunk636]

Its hard to tell , his belly didn't look empty but not like he is full of food , maybe half...

As for water , i think its ok since other fish breed and act normal ?

my other Pb is not interrested in food lately also , but he breed , so maybe thats the reason

param are in chek and wc every day with aged water.

[PP_GBR]

I agree with Eddie it could be the water. If other fish seemed OK but just this one then I said it is the fish. I think you should follow Al's treatment.

[chipmunk636]

The other Pb doesn't eat no more , the two fish just seem normal, but no interest in food , they tend to gard their respective spot , one on the heater and the big pb the corner of the glass he used to breed .

[chipmunk636]

Do you have a link to this treatment procedure ?

thank you!

[PP_GBR]

Here they are:

http://www.archersdiscus.com/disease_21.html

Al's treament :

http://discus-fish-care.blogspot.com/2008/11/bloat-swollen-belly.html

Before you drop food in the tank in the morning, observe all the fish. They should have flatten tummies except for the females. Female fish have slightly fatter tummies than males. Any fish does look right to you, suspend feeding for a day for more observation. And if the fish does not eat for days, he should have very flat tummy too. If his tummy look likes he's just been fed, then suspect something wrong with him internally, bloat/constipation or intestinal infection.

I was told by my mentor that anytime the fish do not eat, PP the whole tank. It's up to you if you want to PP the whole tank or not but I am is one never have to treat fish tanks with meds before. Now I PP the discus tank once a month and write everything down in a journal.

[chipmunk636]

Thanks PP!

I have noticed some points that represent my situation , the suspect fish face the back of the tank , not always maybe 50%

I tend to think it was due to over feeding , i am new at discus and i tried to feed them the most possible to get optimal grow , but i learned that my fish are probably already at their maximum grow, i since reduced feeding , i also read that brine shrimp can help clean their system , anyway its part of their diet since the beginning so i will keep fed them BS.

[chipmunk636]

I have the regular 4 liters API aquarium salt , it is the same thing ?

When you say PP i suppose its prazipro?

I made a 70% wc today and no feeding after, since then i added 3 spoons of this api salt , i will not feed tomorrow.

Right now the fish look somewhat ok , his fin are deployed and the 2 small fins are not clamped , he also use his 2 gills to breath.

His belly look more flat a bit , and his color is about 80% correct ,in other words he doesn't seem to get worst ,maybe little improvement.

edit : i just found this ...

look like white poop .. i found small pieces of normal colored and this pieces

is it a normal process of the laxative effect?

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s519/flatspin636/004-4_zps6c195beb.jpg

[chipmunk636]

The salt seems to work !!

He just poop 2-3 other white feces , but solid this time just like normal poop , but white .

[Eddie]

Maybe try feeding frozen brine shrimp to help clean them out.

[chipmunk636]

I don't think he is fully cleaned because his belly is still round but less than before , should i just fast them for a day with the same salt treatment , or try frozen brine shrimp already ?

[PP_GBR]

C:

PP= potassium permaganate. White feces look like noodles are flagellates. Dose the tank with 2 tbsp of epsom salt/10 gal for at least a day. Repeat the epsom salt treatment for a few days before you introduce food. You can buy epsom salt at the drugs/groceries stores. After a day or two, give the fish Hikari frozen blood worms, do not over feed. I'd would soak the FBW in 3 % epsom salt solution (add 1 tablespoon Epsom salt to 500 mL water) for few minutes, then drain and discard the liquid before feeding the fish. Keep the fish on FBW diet for a week before introducing other food. Do not give him any freeze dried food and always soak pellets/flakes in Epsom salt solution before feeding. If he does not eat then you should give him metro. Read and follow Al's instruction carefully. Keep the temp @ 86 F to help boost his metabolism. When you do WC, try this trick, dump the water right on his face.

You can give the fish FBS but I prefer FBW first.

I highly recommend you to print out the info. from the links above. Keep them by your tank. When in doubt, use them. There are lots of useful info. Always pay attention to the fish facing the back glass at feeding.

[chipmunk636]

Thanks a lot ! I will go to the grocerie store now !

You suggest the blood worm for a week? I thought i read somewhere , blood worm can cause constipation if feeded too much and brine shrimp the opposite ( help cleaning)

I will keep the link for sure, lots of great info learned !


the wc trick will be tricky , when i fill the tank i use a 1330 gph pump , and i highly doubt he will like me if i try that .

[PP_GBR]

C:

As long as you do not drop a whole cube in the tank for 1 fish, you should not have any problem. Your goal is to get them to eat again, why not give them something they like to eat?

I do not feed mine with FBW regularly but sprirulina frozen brine shrimp. I save the best for last. When they are old enough to breed, I'd feed them FBW to condition them for breeding

Before you refill the tank, dump a few gallons of water using the bucket first. I am still doing wc the old fashion way, bucket by bucket. LOL

[chipmunk636]

I finally found epsom salt , my groceries store didn't carry it , so i made a 60-70% wc today and i added 3 spoon of epsom salt , no feeding today .

I will add 1-2 spoons in couples of hours like the treatment suggest .

[PP_GBR]

C:

Good luck with the treatment and keep us posted.

[chipmunk636]

I just made another 60-70% wc and added 2 spoons of epsom salt , i have found more white feces in the prefilter, both of the pigeon seems constipated,their belly seem a bit less full but still a little round .

The fish in question is skittish during and 10 min after the wc , after that he seem ok , i tried 2 squares of blood worms and the turq all eat it really fast , but the small pigeon push 2-3 turq like he want to guard is spot or some food , i though its a good sign , color still washed away .

like yesterday, not much worst but not much better...

[PP_GBR]

C:

Feed 1 cube only. Two cubes are little too much for 7 fish. I feed dozen of fish with only one. I know I underfeed them but I'd rather be safe than be sorry.

[chipmunk636]

With the hikari pack?

I suppose you feed more than 1 cube a day ?

I have fed mine the 2 cubes at 20 min intervale, and the food was gone in second , i even doubt that all the turq got enough...

A normal day when everyone was eating was like 1 cube of beefheart in the morning , another one 30 min later, 60% wc , 1 hour later 1 brineshrimp, and the rest of the day maybe 3-4 cube of bloodworms, some tetra bits .

[PP_GBR]

Yes, 1 small cube of Hikari individual 100gr pack. They only get 1 cube per day FBW or Frozen spirulina brine shrimp. I like to use these cubes. They cost little more than the 1 pound flat pack but I don't have to break them up to weight them. Mine are fed 2X/day. I feed them mixed pellets & flakes in the morning. In the evening they are fed FSBS or Spirulina 20 flakes. And if they behave, I sometimes drop just a pinch of Spirulina 20 flakes soaked in epsom salt after WC, just enough to tease them lol

I think you give them too much food, more than their bodies could digest. How about, cut back the amount of food and spread it out 4 hrs interval between feedings. BTW, I do not feed mine beefheart either.

All mine other fish are fat just like me. So I do not worry about they're not getting enough food. My german blue rams and angelfish are fed the same way 2X/day plus I fast them a day after WC. My adult flowerhorn is fed 1X/day and I fast him every 3 days and after WC. He is very very big, bigger than my face lol lol.

[chipmunk636]

Ok i though you only feed them 1 cube per day only with no pellet or whatever...


Like i said , i do not feed them like this now , i didn't know that they didn't get any bigger earlier( noob) , so i thought i need to feed them a lot like juvies, i will cut down on feeding .

I found a lot of white feces today after the treatment , and the Pb look almost normal , color is good and not facing the back of the glass , i think he will recover, i will keep an eye on them and maybe order metro to get them more appetite if they don't want to eat in the next day , belly now look normal !

[PP_GBR]

Sound like a plan. It's good to know your fish doing better. Hopefully he recovers without metro.

I took some pix to show our friend here the holes. I came home late today and they were so hunry.

Sharing with you too.

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3308/img2858l.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/img2858l.jpg/)

I think the stunted one behind the turk. She is the most picky fish of my group. Regardless, she's my favorite.

Got to do WC now.

Later

[chipmunk636]

The fish is a lot different in behaviour and color during a complete day , this morning when i wake up they were both using one gills to breath, they sometime use only one fin , but not all the time , their belly look normal now, its been about 10 day now and i am strating to worry to be honest .

Can i order metro on weekends ? i think i need to to restore their appetite , because they look everything expect fish that want to eat .

More white feces on the prefilter , but i think they have eliminated the most now.

[chipmunk636]

Just to make sure is it what i need ?

thanks

http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/metronidazole-p-1503.html?osCsid=ef7e4g96bvd0ga8n09p8lqpm73

[PP_GBR]

c:

Seachem metro is very expensive for you to treat big tank. You need to move them to 10gal. I think you can order it from Al @ Rockymountain Discus. He is shipping to Canada. Pm me your address, I'll send you some on Monday.

[chipmunk636]

I don't understand why you say its expensive , the bottle is 7$ even if i order 5-6 of them its ok , i just don't want to spend 100$ in meds

what should i do ?

pm send

[chipmunk636]

Did you recieve my pm , when i go in my inbox it still show no message sent but i have send you 2..

[PP_GBR]

V:

Just got home. Reply sent.

[chipmunk636]

This is now the 5th day with the epsom salt treatment and i still found whites feces all over the prefilter, the fish are seem ok but not better , they came really stressed during every wc , breath with one gills , usually one clamped fins , and dorsal fin clamped also , but as soon as the wc is finished they get ok , fins deployed , breath with 2 gills , i ordered 100 gram of metro but i think it will take 5-10 days to arrive, is my situation is "normal" for a constipated fish or i should be really worried right now ?

[krislewis3]

Do you have a microscope? If so, it's easier to diagnose your problem! You can easily identify the eggs in the feces. There are microscopic photos of different eggs here on the SD website, and information on the correct meds to use depending on which parasite is infecting your fish Good luck!

[chipmunk636]

No microscope ...

I though my fish were constipated, don't know if they have parasite over that ?

[krislewis3]

White feces is a symptom of flagellates as well as certain other worms. You can research it in the disease section of this web site. The disease section will tell you about other worms that could be infecting your fish, and their symptoms. Have you ever wormed your fish? Please, if you want help, fill out the disease form, that you will find in the disease section. Ater filling it out, you will need to copy and paste this disease form onto your thread. The experts here will help you diagnoses the problem, and tell you what medication you will need to fix it. Good Luck

[chipmunk636]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

-I was feeding all my 7 5-6" discus too much 5-6 times a day in hope of grow and 2 pigeon chekerboard that i bought maybe 1-2 month ago stopped eating for about 4-5 day , then i realize the problem .





2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

No eating , belly full, this morning is the 6th day with the epsom salt treatment , whites feces all over the prefilter and sponge each morning , fish look ok, but become more skittish during the wc, after that they become ok .

they do breath with one gills sometime but not always .






3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

epsom salt for the last 6 days





Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

55 gal runni9ng for 2-3 years at least , 7 adult discus 5-6"



5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

60-70% wc daily, tanks running for 2-3 years, bare bottom, yes i age .



6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __85.5___

- ph _7___(7.8-8 in aged barredl) after 24h_

- ammonia reading _0___

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __5-10__

- well water ____

- municipal water ___yes(aged tap water)_

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

the 2 pigeon that are not eating were added about 1-2 month before problem , but were eating normally and no sign of anything ...


I will post a video of what the tank with the fish look like this morning, 6th day with epsom salt treatment .

[krislewis3]

Sorry, I forgot to tell you to copy and paste the disease form in the disease section, where you can begin a thread about your problem!! You will then get the help you need!

[chipmunk636]

You suggest start over a new thread? Because we are already in the disease section .

[krislewis3]

Sorry again...you are right!!! Your in the right place!! I would only suggest that you put a new title on the thread..perhaps ' help needed for discus with white feces' something like that will attract the attention of those who can help you. Then give it a day or two, and you should begin getting suggestions for your problems! Good luck

[chipmunk636]

I don't know how to change the threads title

how we do that ?

[April]

Edit...go advanced I believe.

[chipmunk636]

I started a new tread as suggested

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?102674-Discus-with-white-feces-help-!