discus sensory pits or HITH ? help please !

[sawzai]

HI. i have just bought a discus from a reputable specialised discus shop whom have won quite alot of discus competition.
i have noticed this small holes on the head. is it sensory pits or Hold in the head ?

ph 6.5 . housing 4 discus in 70 gallon planted , will be adding more . 0 ammonia and nitrite and 25 nitrate.
w/c every 2 days 50% . diet : beefheart / hikari frozen blood and tetrabits.

here are some photos
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/sawzai/question/20130103_183206_zps901f2fc6.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/sawzai/question/20130103_183200_zps0b9cb0cd.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/sawzai/question/20130103_183152_zpse6b7635e.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/sawzai/question/20130103_183147_zpsbed5254e.jpg

here is the full view of the fish
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/sawzai/leopard/20130103_154826_zpsacecda8c.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/sawzai/leopard/20130103_154609_zps19653df4.jpg

[kimbo]

I am no expert by any means but on my discus that are blue its easier to see the pits on there face then any other color I have.
Plus the experts are going to tell you to fill out the questionnaire that's a sticky on the disease page. In my opinion if the fish isn't acting sickly its not sick....

[chaoslite]

You should fill out the questionnaire, but it looks like HITH.

Mishka

[lane mechtel]

You should fill out the questionnaire, but it looks like HITH.

Mishka

+1 I have seen HITH start in the sensory pits. Some will disagree with me, but it is a nutritional problem. I recently had HITH start in one of my discus so I started soaking freeze dried black worms in a good liquid vitamin and it was gone in a couple weeks. I use source of life liquid vitamin from natures plus. Both times I have delt with HITH a change in diet cured it. Just my experience.

[Eddie]

It looks like HITH and I do agree it is from nutritional deficiency. Many believe HITH is related to internal flagellates which is possible but maybe the flagellates contribute to the loss of nutrients, who knows. There have also been studies on angelfish that had HITH and none of them had flagellates.

[a volar]

I would say HITH

[PP_GBR]

I bought a group of eight LSS from a sponser here. When I first got them they all have small pin holes on their forhead made me think they all have HITH. The 3 turks have holes too. I am not sure why they have so many small pin holes in the head but they have not showed any white fuzzy stuffs since I got them. So you can rest assured that there is no thing wrong with the fish. It's just the way they are. Observe the fish and have some metro on hand. If the HITh flares up, then you have the meds to treat him. Otherwise, just give him the optimal care and he'll be just fine. BTW, what the odds of having 11 fish with HITH? I have other species that have pin holes on the head from the day I first got them. One looked so bad that I name him Scaredface. I can justify why they have many holes on their head because they are very agressive fish and they can not live together in a tank. The holes are the scars from fighting when they were in the breeder tank. Why your discus and mine have pin holes? I do not know. I'm looking forward to know the anwser from the experts/pros/breeders.

[sawzai]

PP_GBR do you mind taking afew pic of them and share with us here ? greatly appreciated.

to my LSS . i dont see any sickness in him. its still eating well but there is those holes on the head and even the sides of the head. anyway , i will dose the med for HITH in the tank along with the tanksmates. and dose the med and some vitamins into their diet too. just in case.

[chaoslite]

If it is only one fish I would not dose the whole tank with metro. I would move him to a hospital tank if you are going to go with meds.

Mishka

[sawzai]

i dont have any tank for hospital tank. i have only one tank. have no choice =[

[chaoslite]

Petco is having a tank sale. $1 per gallon. I only suggest this because I do not know the effects of metro on plants. Not to mention the fact that you need to do daily water changes. Easier to do in a smaller tank.

Mishka

[sawzai]

metro doesnt have any effects on plants. have checked in google. thanks though. but my parents wouldn't allow it. ):

[Chicago Discus]

IMO...........First you need to take that substrate out its for planted tanks and not very good for a attempting to treat a sick fish. That substrate is probably whats causing some of your problems it should be used with gravel or sand over it but thats a whole other topic. The fish does look like it has hole in the head (but not bad just needs some attention) my recommendation would be to get rid of the substrate and start doing daily water changes with aged aerated water at the same temperature as you tank. take out your carbon filter and treat the tank with some metro and a good quality food..........Josie

[sawzai]

IMO...........First you need to take that substrate out its for planted tanks and not very good for a attempting to treat a sick fish. That substrate is probably whats causing some of your problems it should be used with gravel or sand over it but thats a whole other topic. The fish does look like it has hole in the head (but not bad just needs some attention) my recommendation would be to get rid of the substrate and start doing daily water changes with aged aerated water at the same temperature as you tank. take out your carbon filter and treat the tank with some metro and a good quality food..........Josie

my current tank is planted tank. i cant take the substrate out =[ btw the substrate is ada new amazonia , its keeping the water at ph 6.5
there is no carbon in my filter. thanks , i will do daily water changes and give them good quality food too =D

[yim11]

The substrate should be considered more IMO, from the mfr website - "Helps to lower the hardness level of the water." I didn't research what components of the water is affected for this, but I do agree with Josie that substrate is an issue not only with the conditions but also with any potential treatments.

You sure you can't sneak a lil 20g tank in there somewhere ;)




IMO...........First you need to take that substrate out its for planted tanks and not very good for a attempting to treat a sick fish. That substrate is probably whats causing some of your problems it should be used with gravel or sand over it but thats a whole other topic. The fish does look like it has hole in the head (but not bad just needs some attention) my recommendation would be to get rid of the substrate and start doing daily water changes with aged aerated water at the same temperature as you tank. take out your carbon filter and treat the tank with some metro and a good quality food..........Josie


my current tank is planted tank. i cant take the substrate out =[ btw the substrate is ada new amazonia , its keeping the water at ph 6.5
there is no carbon in my filter. thanks , i will do daily water changes and give them good quality food too =D

[sawzai]

if only i could =[ i will do what i can do now. and see how it goes !
anyway heres the questionaire

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

bought a LSS and there's those holes on the head. picture is on page 1 1st post.



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)


no symptoms


3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

waterchange



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

1 year and half age. tank size 70 gallon. 7 cardinal tetra. 6 corydoras. 4 discus.

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

sucking up poop and uneaten food. / been running 1 year and half / ADA soil. / no. but i used prime

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __27 degree celsius___

- ph __6.5___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __15__

- well water __no__

- municipal water ____

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

no

[Eddie]

Also, whats your KH and GH?

[PP_GBR]

I knew you'd ask me for the pictures. I'll see what I can do. With my camera skill, I'm not sure that I could capture them on camera because they are very active in tank. Also there is no daylight in the room (in the basement) except the tank light and another dim light across the tank.

[sawzai]

I knew you'd ask me for the pictures. I'll see what I can do. With my camera skill, I'm not sure that I could capture them on camera because they are very active in tank. Also there is no daylight in the room (in the basement) except the tank light and another dim light across the tank.

thanks !

[sawzai]

Also, whats your KH and GH?

i dont have test kit for that. but the ADA new amazonia aquasoil im using do softens the water.

[PP_GBR]

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/2223/img2830jn.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/img2830jn.jpg/)

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4325/img2831r.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/22/img2831r.jpg/)

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/352/img2833wc.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/img2833wc.jpg/)

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/3308/img2858l.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/img2858l.jpg/)

I've tried my best to take these pix to show you the holes but they were moving faster than my fingers :lol: Honestly, I barely see the holes in these pix but in person I could count them :lol:

[PP_GBR]

Just did a wc and snapped some more pix for you. I was aiming the camera at them but as soon as I snapped the camera the pix turn out of focus.

People are showing off the beauties of their fish and here I am showing off the holes :lol: :lol:

Can you see the holes?

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8387/img2897td.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/img2897td.jpg/)

This pix looks better

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9905/img2923n.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/img2923n.jpg/)

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9416/img2954x.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/84/img2954x.jpg/)

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6917/img2958s.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/img2958s.jpg/)

They all have at least six holes in the front and 2 or more on each side.

[sawzai]

nice discus you have there ! almost same as mine then ! hahahha xD
thanks for sharing !
today is my day 1 treatment. will see how by then in a week !

[dwilder]

d

[PP_GBR]

No problem. I think my fish all got chicken pox lol. I must tell you this, metro treatment will not fill up the open holes.

Good luck with the treatment.

[sawzai]

what treatment will fill up the open holes ?

[PP_GBR]

If in fact your fish and mine had HITH, there is nothing you can do to close the open holes. They are just like some people got scars from chickenpox. Since you already started the treatment, finish it. I'd like to know the result too. And if the holes still there, you just have to except the fact that the way they are. What've done is done.


Until then, just give the fish the care they need and they will thrive in your environment.

[lane mechtel]

what treatment will fill up the open holes ?

Change in diet. I my experience both times the holes closed up.

[Eddie]

Change in diet. I my experience both times the holes closed up.

lol, I think we both mentioned that in the beginning but it has been overlooked. The thread went in a million different directions.

[lane mechtel]

lol, I think we both mentioned that in the beginning but it has been overlooked. The thread went in a million different directions.

whats funny is I was wondering if you were still watching this thread. since you are an expert.

[sawzai]

Change in diet. I my experience both times the holes closed up.

i been feeding tetrabits and fbw soaked in vitamin daily.. what diet should i changed to ?

[lane mechtel]

vitamin C and D are thought to be the main supliments for HITH. Mainly well rounded with vitamins and minerals ( calcium, iron, zinc, ect.) At this point just focus on fat soluble vitamins A,D,E,K and give it a couple weeks. Also I use freeze dried worms becouse I think they will soak up the liquid vitamin better. just a thought. I hope this is helpful, I don't know what is in tetrabits.