HELP! DISCUS WITH CLOUDY EYE - One died last night...

[Mikielh1984]

I have been keeping Discus for a little over a year now and last night was my first death since I started. I am pretty sure it is cloudy eye and I have been doing the recommended water changes daily but I have another that is showing the same symptoms as the one that died. Please Help!

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

4 Days ago, Cloudy Eye, One discus has died.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Cloudy eye, Turning dark, excess slime, not eating, heavy breathing out of one.


3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

None


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

80 gallon, 7 Discus, All discus 4.5" or above, Largest is 6.5"


5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

Weekly WC of 50%, Tank has been running for a little over a year, gravel tank, No


6 Parameters and water source;

- temp 82 F

- ph 7.6

- ammonia reading 0.25 PPM on first day, 0 PPM as of this morning

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading .5

- well water No

- municipal water Yes Burbank,CA Area

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

Yes new 3" pigeon blood discus. Was QT for two weeks prior to adding to tank.

[April]

Check your ph and see if its crashing. Add salt . One tablespoon per 10 gallons. If your oh crashes or dropped use some
Buffer. Is your water crystal clear?
Depending where you live of course , but where I live we have no hardness. I have to add a buffer to keep my ph stable. I get that if I don't keep tabs on it.

[Mikielh1984]

Check your ph and see if its crashing. Add salt . One tablespoon per 10 gallons. If your oh crashes or dropped use some
Buffer. Is your water crystal clear?
Depending where you live of course , but where I live we have no hardness. I have to add a buffer to keep my ph stable. I get that if I don't keep tabs on it.

PH has been stable for a long time now. I don't think that PH is the issue. The water is not crystal clear, there is stuff floating around. Nothing too abnormal though.

I have been doing daily WC's for the past few days. Just started adding salt yesterday. Should I add each time I do a 50% WC?

[zimmjeff]

to many fish for the water changes you are doing. Up you water changes and get rid of the gravel you will see a big difference. Good luck. Jeff

[Mikielh1984]

Thanks Jeff.

Here is what the one is doing.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/MikielH/D1D7DDB9-5163-4818-B930-D7634145461A-30337-0000062DEAFBE2E2.jpg

The others are looking like this.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/MikielH/3CA6EBA8-DF87-4BBA-A4D0-924125955A10-30337-0000062DEF19EAB4.jpg

[Elliots]

I just had that problem myself. I discovered that due to the pH difference between my tank and my tap water change along with the amount of water being changed it effected my fish. Check the pH of your tank and the water you are changing with. You only listed the pH of the water you use to change. I will guess that your tank pH is 6.6 or less. I live in a small apartment with a big 150 g tank. I literally do not have room to age water. I was told my knowledgeable people to change less water less frequently. I know that goes against the usual opinions on SD. One of the people who told me this is a SD sponsor. If you look at the Stendker Discus site from Germany (It is available translated.) you would see their water changes are about 1/4 to 1/3 of what people on SD say is best for Discus. If you change 25% twice a week and raise your temperature to 90 degrees your fish may get better. It will appear to get better slowly and might take 1-2 weeks to completely lose the "White Eyes". My fish were stressed by the changes I think and eventually got a bacterial infection that I cured with antibiotics, then "Ammo Lock" to remove the ammonia because I killed the bacteria in the filter followed by two rounds of "Quick Start" to restore the bacteria. All this is what happened to me. It is not necessarily your problem.
If you IM me your email I will forward the message I received from the sponsor. Please do not post the message or sponsors name on SD. You will be very surprised by the name.

[Mikielh1984]

Here are photos of what I am experiencing.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/MikielH/3CA6EBA8-DF87-4BBA-A4D0-924125955A10-30337-0000062DEF19EAB4.jpg
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/MikielH/D1D7DDB9-5163-4818-B930-D7634145461A-30337-0000062DEAFBE2E2.jpg

[PP_GBR]

Elliots

I took my water sample to a Stendker dealer in my area and they told me the same thing. 25% WC a week. They keep their stock in tanks with gravels. The 4 inc they keep in a 60 gal Hex tank and the 2 + they keep in smaller tank but both the tanks are hexagon. Both tanks have venturies (sp). Their fish are actually very friendly, they came up to the surface looking for food. The young lady there told me that every time the customers come by, they expect food. So she went back to drop some food for them.

Can you forward the email to me? TIA

[Elliots]

i am low tech, please email me at burgred3825@yahoo.com and I will email you back. I do not know how to forward an email thru SD.
My Stendkers do the same. I can pet them! I have not tried hand feeding but I probably can.
Where are you located that you have a Stendker dealer?

[PP_GBR]

Elliots:

I live in MA, not too far from you, just a couple hrs drive. The dealer is in Southampton MA. I'll send you an email later.

Thanks.

[Eddie]

Increase your water changes.

[Second Hand Pat]

Increase your water changes.

I totally agree with Eddie on this one. Also instead of accepting what the Stendker dealer or website says I would suggest checking with Hans. I quite doubt he would advocate one 25/50% WC a week. Also the ammonia spike could be from the additional bio-load from adding the 3 PB. Large daily WCs would offset the ammonia/nitrite spikes.

[PP_GBR]

Sound like you have a perfect storm. I do not know how you refill your planted tank but here is how my friend refills his tank and it does not disturb his fish nor the subtrates. He puts a piece of foam core in the tank and pour the water over the foam.

http://www.archersdiscus.com/disease_21.html


http://www.archersdiscus.com/where_do_i_star_27.html

[Chicago Discus]

You need to up your water change schedule you have seven discus in an eighty gallon planted tank with gravel, driftwood and what looks like some tetras from the photo. You have a lot going on in that tank and it needs some fresh clean aged aerated water. Im not sure where the LFS is getting there information telling you that discus are ok with a twenty five percent change weekly but IMO they are not correct.

[Elliots]

Josie, check the Stendker site in Germany. I do not know if they are right or wrong but it seems to work for them. What they do is contrary to the majority of opinions on water changes on SD are.
Pat, please check with Hans by IM, not on SD to see what he advocates.
I have modified my water changes due to current unresolvable pH difference in my apartment. I do not have room to age water. I bought a tank one to two feet shorter than I really wanted due to space constraints. I bought five foot long. I was changing 100 plus gallons two to three times a week. Now I do 30-50 gallons one to three times a week.

[Second Hand Pat]

Elliot, my only point here is the OP needs to up his WCs. If we use WC recommendations we find on websites or from local "experts" and we are having fish become ill, die or showing other adverse conditions then we need to change something which is generally more or larger WCs is the first line of treatment. We all need to find the right balance on WCs and maintaining healthy, hungry fish.

[lane mechtel]

Elliots,

Get a 50 Gal food safe barrel and a pond pump with some vinyl tubing. Fill the barrel just before a WC then add prime and discus buffer 1/8 tsp at a time until the ph is the same as aquarium water. This will allow you to do as many WC's as you want. This is what I do as I also do not age my water, Although I agree it is best to do so. I hope this is helpful info.

[Chicago Discus]

Josie, check the Stendker site in Germany. I do not know if they are right or wrong but it seems to work for them. What they do is contrary to the majority of opinions on water changes on SD are.
Pat, please check with Hans by IM, not on SD to see what he advocates.
I have modified my water changes due to current unresolvable pH difference in my apartment. I do not have room to age water. I bought a tank one to two feet shorter than I really wanted due to space constraints. I bought five foot long. I was changing 100 plus gallons two to three times a week. Now I do 30-50 gallons one to three times a week.

I dont care If Stendker tells you the sky is purple Im telling you what works for me. They also say to refill with cold tap water go ahead and do that and see what happens. If the fish is having issues the first thing IMO is to increase your water changes and get the quality of the water in check............Josie

[Elliots]

Dear Lane, Thanks for your advice. I live in a tiny apartment. I wanted a 7' tank but I only had room for 5'. I literally have no room for a 50 gal barrel or I would get one. I took out my kitchen table that I did not use for room for an aquarium.
Josie, I am saying more and larger water changes are usually the answer. If I had done that in my case I would have no more Discus. What works for you does not necessarily work for everyone in every instance. It is possible to injure fish with too much water changes. Please PM Hans about this!

[PP_GBR]

Elliots:

Have you receive my email yet?

[Chicago Discus]

Dear Lane, Thanks for your advice. I live in a tiny apartment. I wanted a 7' tank but I only had room for 5'. I literally have no room for a 50 gal barrel or I would get one. I took out my kitchen table that I did not use for room for an aquarium.
Josie, I am saying more and larger water changes are usually the answer. If I had done that in my case I would have no more Discus. What works for you does not necessarily work for everyone in every instance. It is possible to injure fish with too much water changes. Please PM Hans about this!


I'm not going to debate this issue I'm just stating what works for me I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination I'm just stating my expirience..........Josie

[a volar]

Josie, check the Stendker site in Germany. I do not know if they are right or wrong but it seems to work for them. What they do is contrary to the majority of opinions on water changes on SD are.
Pat, please check with Hans by IM, not on SD to see what he advocates.
I have modified my water changes due to current unresolvable pH difference in my apartment. I do not have room to age water. I bought a tank one to two feet shorter than I really wanted due to space constraints. I bought five foot long. I was changing 100 plus gallons two to three times a week. Now I do 30-50 gallons one to three times a week.

You just blew Hans cover :) ......... LOL

[lane mechtel]

elliots,

sounds like it is tough to find a way in your apt. to do a large WC. I think most of us are saying every discus keeper should be able to preform a 90% WC at any given time if needed. In many cases it is the first part of any treatment. Good luck I wish I could offer more advice.

[Elliots]

I could do a 90% change, I used to until my fish got sick. Now I would check the pH of my tap water first and if it is within .4
on the pH scale do it. If I thought I had to do a 90% change I have stuff to adjust the pH that I never used.