Starting out with discus

[amazon55]

Hi,

New member here from the UK and after doing a bit of lurking/reading up on the forum I thought I'd share my current progress in setting up a new tank which I am slowly preparing for fish. I've got my mind fairly set on having discus as the main attraction along with a few other carefully researched fish. I'd appreciate any of your thoughts on stocking numbers and my current equipment, set up and plans!!

The tank & stand I've got was second hand, dimensions are 34" L 17" W 24" H, which I believe works out to approx 50 UK Gallons or 60 US Gallons. The tank itself came with 2x 24w T5HO GLO light fittings. Tank has been cleaned up properly and holds water.

I've also bought new an Eheim 2217 with media and Hydor 200w inline heater along with some tap and hoselock fittings to make changes easier.

I also have an offer of a free uv sterilizer available if this is neccessary/suitable??

Substrate is to be pool filter sand which I'm part way through washing now. I'd also probably add a little mopani/drift wood, slate and a couple of low light plants to begin with so the tank isn't totally bare, but not so much though that it makes cleaning difficult.

Given the relative expense of adult discus from breeders I've found in my local area (Coventry) I have almost settled on the idea of growing out some approx 3" juvenile fish. I intend to buy captive bred, with the hope of keeping them in dechlorinated tap water, I haven't done full tests on my tap water yet but it doesn't seem to show any readings for ammonia, nitrite or nitrates AFAIK but I think it is fairly hard. (Not looking to breed!)

Once established and once the fish are grown out and comfortable, I'd like to add more varied stock, and eventually improve the aquascape, add a moderate amount of plants, upgrading light fittings if required and possibly dose liquid carbon or pressurized co2.

So, any thoughts/suggestions/comments anyone? Hopefully someone will make it this far lol.

Thanks,

Gav

[matt56]

First, welcome to the forum! Now on to the discus. That tank is okay for a group of 6 adults, so i would recommend buying 6-7 juvies to grow out. Definitely start with 3inch+ fish, anything smaller will require multiple water changes a day to get them a good start, would highly recommend 4inch+ from personal experience if you can afford it. I would recommend staying with a bare bottom tank if you want to grow them out. It doesn't sound appealing but believe me, when you've experienced how easy it is to maintain you wont care about how it looks ;). Also lots of water changes. 50% a day is a good number to go by. That brings up aging your water, which you can find info on in the stickies if you dont already know. Lastly their diet. Make sure you do your research on good foods with high protein, that's one reason to do daily water changes, since you are feeding such high protein foods it can foul up the water pretty fast. To put it simple,

1. Read all the stickies and use the search engine to help answer your questions.
2. Get your tank set up, water treated, aged, and heated.
3. Get your filter set up, start your fishless cycle.
4. After the cycle plop in your discus and start the water changes and feeding :).

All this and more can be found in the stickies!

[SMB2]

Did Matt mention water changes;)
Keep your tank BB if you are growing out fish. Or set up your display tank and grow the juvies in a smaller BB tank that you can easily do daily WCs. When they are 4.5 "(plus) then put then in your display with plants etc.
When setting up a new system, give a lot of consideration as to how you plan to do aged water changes. That usually means barrels/rubber trash cans, extra pump, heater and tubing to drain the tank. I think the space and
mechanics of water changes get overlooked in the "joy" of setting up the new tank.

[amazon55]

Thanks for your input Matt, will certainly look into the aging of water now as it's not something I've read much about. Intend to fishless cycle, have a bottle of kleen off household ammonia which was sold to me as safe for the process.

I was led to believe pool filter sand shouldn't be too hard to keep clean as waste would sit on top of it? Would you say in your experience it would add a lot of work as I've already put some of it in the tank!! :)

Will look into prices for 4" when I eventually visit the breeders I can find, I believe they keep them in some form of filtered water (not ro) from what I have read, should the fish be ok with the change over to tap? Also would a fishless cycle be enough to support the 6-7 fish immediately?

Gav

[amazon55]

Hi SMB,

I'll have to discuss the additional barrel/storage with the Mrs, she wasn't too keen when I'd previously brought up the idea of a continuous change system being positioned in the living room! Without wanting to add create problems or use chemicals other than a dechlorinator is there any way water from a mixer tap at the same temperature would be ok?

As far as hoses go, I have bought connectors/taps/t fittings for the tubing to and from the canister to drain and fill, want to make it as easy as possible! Now just need to plumb it all in.

I am relatively new to fish so all input is appreciated, I've have had success in the last 6 months keeping neons and otos in a nano tank for my daughter, now hoping to set something a little more challenging up for myself!

Cheers,

Gav

[matt56]

Im sure the sand is an easier substrate to keep clean then most, as it wont allow gunk to get inside it, but if you are vacuuming the bottom everyday like you should with the water changes, it might get annoying trying to keep the sand from getting siphoned out. Like right now it takes me maybe 40 seconds to vacuum the whole bottom of my 55g and wipe it down with good paper towels. All because its bare bottom. As far as water aging barrels go, they can be rubbermaid brute trash cans, or food grade 55gallon barrels. Whichever you can find. Or another container, i would just post on here saying what it is and ask if its safe or not. And my water barrel is 15 feet away from my tank in a closet. I just use a pump to fill my tank back up. I have a 1600gph pump so it takes me like 4 minutes to do an 80% water change :). It takes forever to drain it though because i use a python and our water pressure is terrible. To sum up aging water, when you put the water into a barrel and aerate and heat it to the tank temp, it releases all the gasses in the tap water either raising or lowering the ph making it stable. Normally this happens over time in your tank, but since you are doing a water change everyday, it would change the ph constantly if you didn't age the water. My ph out of the tap is 7.4 but after aging for 24 hours its 8.4. That would be a huge ph change if i did water change with my 7.4ph water. Ph change=bad for the fish.

[amazon55]

That makes sense, I'll do a test on my tap and aged tap to see if that kind of ph swing is going to be a problem here. If so I'll just have to tell her its not optional :laugh:

Space could be an issue but I'm sure I can fashion some sort of container storage under my sink in the utility, could store about 100L under there as an approximation, not sure I could find enough room for something as large as 200L. I suppose for ~50% changes this should be enough?

[matt56]

You only want to store enough water for one water change. If you store say a weeks worth of water you could run into bacterial issues. I think 100liters should be enough of a water change, but ill let others chime in on their opinions.

[SMB2]

Space is always an issue when it comes to WC. People just don't think about it and then when they have a problem, the first question is WC and do you age your water.
I keep 3 33gal, Rubbermaid trash cans in a closet; they fit inside each other. Pump, heater and hose fit in as well, so pretty good for space. I was directed to this product here on SD and I think I may get one: http://www.jehmco.com/html/safety_siphon_aquarium_drain.html
Allows for pretty rapid changes, and less trash cans. I plan to drain the water into the garden in warmer weather.
Stabilization of PH is important in aging, but the "elders" here will tell you that there is more to aging than just PH. 50% is OK with larger Discus but may not be adequate for growing out smaller ones.

There are lots of threads around:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?80587-Useful-WC-tip-s-for-BIG-tanks-using-a-FX5!

[amazon55]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2ynnqk5.png

Any thoughts on this setup on the basis of a planted tank with the two discus being an established mated pair which would be added last??

Not throwing up any major problems on AqAdvisor, however I know this isn't always correct and I have some concerns over smaller fish becoming lunch etc.

Also, I've checked my tap water against aged water and PH remains the same, should this mean I'm able to use water straight from tap?

[matt56]

If you heated and aerated the water for 24 hours and it stayed the same ph, then yes you can use it straight from the tap, but you might consider doing it anyways so you can get the temp right to minimize stress.

edit: also if you use warm water from the tap you could leach copper and other stuff into the water. Its always best to fill a barrel with cold water then heat it to the tank temp to avoid this, but you don have to just throwing out possibilities.

[amazon55]

Yes the water was heated aerated for 4-5 days, readings taken from an established tank vs fresh tap. Also I'm not sure but I wouldn't think copper would be an issue with instant hot/singlepoint water heater as the water isn't stored in copper for any longer than it is from the cold tap?

Anyone got any thoughts on stocking as posted above?

[matt56]

I think you are fine then. Seems like quite a few fish. Keep in mind if you get an established pair, they will attack anything else in the tank that gets near their eggs. Have you ever though of just putting the discus in? thats a 90 gallon tank, just to give you a perspective of their size.
http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy260/mattster56/DSC_2418_zpsae426f1b.jpg
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?102085-My-90G-Discus-Planted-Tank-Obsession heres the forum thread. You could do something like that then put in a school of tetras or corys or whatever you want. As i said before my only worry with all this fish is it stressing both the discus who are protecting their eggs and stressing the other fish who will be drove away from the egg site.

[amazon55]

Ok so just to update, tank is currently doing a fishless cycle, have invested in a nitrate filter for my tap water other params are ph 7.5 and moderate kh & gh. Whilst establishing the BB I've been working on a scape and establishing plants. As far as stocking goes, I'm still keen on stocking as described previously perhaps minus the synodontis. I'm thinking of getting an older pair from a breeder which have gone past prime for spawning etc if this is a good idea??

Any comments/suggestions/advice appreciated.

See below for pics of current layout etc.

http://i45.tinypic.com/301jcz8.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/6j22rb.jpg

[SMB2]

Looks like a good start. Are you going to QT your non Discus fish before they go into the display tank?

[amazon55]

Looks like a good start. Are you going to QT your non Discus fish before they go into the display tank?

I do have a spare 19 US gal I can get up and running for qt, was thinking of stocking the other fish all at once to begin with; running it for a month or two until I'm happy it is disease free and parameters are stable and then introduce the discus. Should this be done the other way round in your experience? If so is there a good reason this wouldn't work? I admit I haven't yet discussed this plan with local breeders and I'll still need to locate a suitable pair nearer the time etc.

Cheers,

Gav

[DiscusJimmy]

Hi,

Just to throw my two pence worth in...

Good call on the Synodontis, he will look really cute but muller your neons when the lights go out. Learnt that the hard way. I'd suggest using Cardinal Tetras though instead of Neons. They take the higher temperature better and personally the colouring is far more striking IMO.

I too used pool filter sand but it is a nightmare to clean easily and effectivly. Now joined the BB club! Other members on here suggested using terrascotta plant pots, which work really well and the plants will thrive. I have just really planted on my driftwood and that looks just as good.

I know I am going to get slated for this but...I do not age my water the pH is stable at 7.2 and never changes. All my pipe work is plastic and I have a gas heater so water does not sit in a boiler. All the water her is desalinised (which is just the same as passing it through a giant RO unit. Minirals are added after this process and it remains constant.

I do use a UV sterilizer (opinions on this will vary) but personally, if you get the flow rate from you canister to the unit correct then it does help. I change the bulb everey 6 months as it will start to degrade over time. I have never had any fungus/bacterial problems since using it.

Jim

[lipadj46]

I would not get an old worn out pair from a breeder. Save your money and buy a nice pair from a reputable source. Also skip the otos, they are not compatible with discus. Consider instead a group of 3 ancistrus pleco of some sort (regular bristlenose are cool or something different like a L183 or L213) and leave out the synodontis also. Also consider larger school of cardinal tetras (if you can find larger ones that won't become lunch) in lieu of the other tetras and hatchet fish. Also the apple snail will eat plants and leave eggs everywhere so maybe consider some nerite snails, they have some cool varieties. The rams are nice especially the cooler color morphs as are the cories. That is a short tank so be aware that once the discus start breeding they might start tearing things up so maybe put some cover and wood in there. Just some thoughts.