Running Out of Ideas

[jjgunshot]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

Started over a month ago with what I thought was tail rot. Treated with Furan 2 as instructed on this forum. Also set up a aging tank as instructed but they arent doing any better. Ive begun salt dips on the two worst and that seems to be helping as there showing more life to them now. I am however worried about the rest of the tank! Got one of my biggest ones not eating anymore and looks like a small black edge around the fish is slowly coming up Im not sure if thats normal (Strain = Tiger Turqoise Discus)





2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Dark edge on the bigger ones and All dark on the smaller, some have clamped fins. Darting is becomng more and more frequent now as there jumping out of the water sometimes mostly when I put the ones back in from the salt dip. The two worst ones looks like there tails are disintegrating. I dont know what to do....Should I treat with General Cure....




3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

Treated with Furan 2 almsot 2 weeks ago now and no improvement. Two of them are going through salt dips daily now but not sure what approach to take with the rest of them.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish
56 gallon, 8 juvies ranging from 2-4 inches


5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?
85% daily now with aged water. Barebottom tank.


6 Parameters and water source;

- temp _____85 (dropping down slowly over days)

- ph _____ 7-7.5

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____0

- well water ____

- municipal water ____y

7. Any new fish/plants added recently Nope

NOTE: Im wondering if it could be stress from having no hiding spots ? should I add drift wood/stress coat after every water change?

I dont know what to do anymore:/

Can take pics if needed

Please help!

[DLock3d]

It's difficult, but patience is a big part of trying to cure discus ailments. If you think it's stress related I'd keep the lights off and maybe put a towel over the tank. Keep doing your daily water changes. A lot of times these guys can pull through with something as simple as clean warm water. Personally, I wouldn't put anymore chemicals or anything else in the tank.

[jjgunshot]

Anything else I should be doing? Should I isolate the ones im treating in salt dips?

[DLock3d]

I'd also check to make sure there isn't a stray current in your tank from a heater. The jumping when being put back in the tank is odd.

[jjgunshot]

My bigger discus is now not eating at all and hiding behind the korallia water circulation pump.... he is pointing his head straight up the whole time?????

What on earth is going on with my discus?

[chipmunk636]

Can the med put stress on the other fish and actually get them sick ?

I am in the same situation , had a sick fish and now its 1 week of metro and i have more problem than before the treatment , turq turned dark , fin clamped .

do you have a pic of your to compare the dark level ?

[Moon]

It is very important to know what you are trearing for before you add the meds.
jj are your fish breathing normally? have you checked gill movements? Are both gills working? When you state that the body is getting darker, are there blotches?
Your nitrate being zero does not make sense.

[jjgunshot]

sorry my nitrates are minimal as the water changes are so massive...Im not sure what is consdiered normal gill function... One of them has really red tissue on the inner gill area that I see when he breaths.

[jjgunshot]

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm175/killers619/Sick2_zpsc865ce42.jpg
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm175/killers619/Sick3_zps99b23f9d.jpg
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm175/killers619/Sick4_zpsbf61c22f.jpg
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm175/killers619/Sick5_zpsc57357f4.jpg
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm175/killers619/Sick6_zpsb01fff3a.jpg
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm175/killers619/Sick_zps32835428.jpg

The situation is dire....I have now quarantined the three of them. The big one is kinda just laying around the tank now and not eating...I really dont want to loose him... What is wrong with the fish? Anyone?

The one has hurt himself I think from darting...

I have done everything ppl said. Treated with Furan 2, Created an aging tank and up'd the water change regime. Also downed the temp as stated.....My fish are not getting better :/

[jjgunshot]

Please anyone with experience in Discus lend your aid!

[Chicago Discus]

IMO without being able to examine the fish and take scrapings what your dealing with is a bacterial infection and furan-2 and salt is not strong enough to tackle the issue.

[jjgunshot]

So what am I to do?

What is stronger then furan 2?

[PP_GBR]

Poor little fish. If you leave them alone and don't mess around with them, they probably have more chance.

[jjgunshot]

I did leave them alone for a long time before and they were only getting worse.

Im doing the best I can but even my best isnt enough to save them it looks like....If only someone could diagnose what the hell they have and what I treat with Id be great and hopefully my fish will to.

[Chicago Discus]

there are many anibiotics that can take care of the tail and fin rot but in combination with the ulcer on the head I would suggest something different Oxytetracycline, its a five and seven day treatment just follow the manufactures recommended doses,no UV, no carbon less light lots of air......Josie

[jjgunshot]

So use Oxytetracycline Josie? Is that what the med is called?

Is it something like this?

http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/prazi-p-1483.html

[Chicago Discus]

So use Oxytetracycline Josie? Is that what the med is called?

Yes I believe so there are several different brands all of them should work but remember keep it simple-stupid don't over think it and give the fish time to recover. And dont throw anything else in the water the last thing you want is to create FISH TANK MED SOUP FTMS syndrome its almost always fatal.....Josie

[jjgunshot]

Got a link to where I can get this stuff in canada by chance Josie?

Thanks so much for your help!

[jjgunshot]

Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride Is that it?

Or would this do?

http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/triple-sulfa-powder-packets-10pk-p-243.html
http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/erythromycin-powder-packets-p-244.html
http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/pimafix-p-238.html

Sorry but I dont know which one I need to be honest :/

[Chicago Discus]

The product will work you just need patients and aged aerated water with temperature in your aging barrel at one degree warmer than you tank I know most people say to put the prime or safe in when you stat filling your tank but IMO thats hogwash just put the prime/safe of your choice right in the barrel that you are aging.....Josie

[Chicago Discus]

Also looks like you dropping your temp in your tank thats good shoot for 82

[jjgunshot]

Ya Im dropping tank down slowly. Which one should I use if any of those three Josie if you dont mind :)

Any of them in specific good for my situation ?

Im leaning towards Pimafix is that okay?

[Chicago Discus]

Im not sure where to get OXYTETRACYCLINE HYDROCHLORIDE in Canada maybe somone else can help

[jjgunshot]

The thing on his head is just recent josie from running into the glass from darting :(

[Chicago Discus]

Ya Im dropping tank down slowly. Which one should I use if any of those three Josie if you dont mind :)

Any of them in specific good for my situation ?

Im leaning towards Pimafix is that okay?


I dont like any of that stuff i use is from aquaScience research group or ARG located in Kansas City MO 816) 842-5936 and ask them where you can get some

[Inland Empire Discus]

Not sure were you can get Oxytetracycline in Canada, but Fucin will also work really well for all bacteria related issues. I can ship to Canada but it takes about a week under normal priority mail.

[Chicago Discus]

I hope this helps maybe someone else can chime in with some more advice

[jjgunshot]

Thank you so much Josie! I really HATE seeing my fish like this and I know its my fault partly but its my first time with fish never mind Discus alone. Feel so bad for the poor little guy!

Got the three effected quarantined and will get the stuff to treat them tomorrow! Ill treat the three for now and keep them quarantined for over a month to watch the other tank as well to make sure others are fine before re adding them.

[Chicago Discus]

Thank you so much Josie! I really HATE seeing my fish like this and I know its my fault partly but its my first time with fish never mind Discus alone. Feel so bad for the poor little guy!

Got the three effected quarantined and will get the stuff to treat them tomorrow! Ill treat the three for now and keep them quarantined for over a month to watch the other tank as well to make sure others are fine before re adding them.

dont beat yourself up we all went through this learning experience in the beginning and I learn something new everyday in this hobby thats what keeps me so interested :)

[jjgunshot]

You think it wise to leave the three in the quarantine for a month or more to make sure 1. there cured and 2. the others in the main tank arent ill?

[jjgunshot]

Should I treat both tanks (the ones I quarentined and the main tank? Or treat the quarantine and watch the other tank closely for now?

[Chicago Discus]

Should I treat both tanks (the ones I quarentined and the main tank? Or treat the quarantine and watch the other tank closely for now?

You don't want to treat fish that are not showing any issues just treat the the fish that has problems

[jjgunshot]

kk thanks again Josie :D

[mirador]

HI Everyone
frankly ,I cannot beleive this post and particularly the replies. Look, this person who asked the question about the bacterial/protozoan attack on his discus did not need learned non answers. He needed,and it might be a bit late, to P.P all of those discus either in a 3 minute dip at a strength of 1/8th teaspoon per 20 gallons.THis is right from the Jim Quarles book. He can,I would, follow that up with a less aggressive 5 hour dip exactly per the instuctions on the british discus group website for making a stock solution of P.P.. THis is not a discussion..this protocol works like a charm..oxidizes everything alive on the discus and ,remarkably.does not appear to hurt them at all. Forget antibiotics now,just do it. If you don't do it ,they will be dead soon. If you do,it is amazing,improvement is fast and dramatic. I mean,they are dying anyway..never mind being scared to do the treatment. You do need pottasium permanganate in your medicine chest ,a separate 20 gallon for dipping, a new tank all set up to take them after the dip ( cannot return them).You can do the second,gentler dip,in the new receiving tank. Massive water changes are required ..even 200% per day as they will foul the water really badly. THis is not experimental or my idea,this is known stuff,I just did it.

[sammy]

I went through something disgustingly similar last year - I had 21 discus at the time - when all was said and done I had 11. I couldn't figure out what they had. I set up 4 quarentine tanks and split the fish amongst them. 2 tanks got Tetrocycline full doses. The other 2 tanks got erythromycin full dose. I believe I worked prazi pro into them too but I honestly don't remember. The tanks treated with tetro had 11 fish, all still with me today ( actually 1 died of a freak accident 3 months ago) The other tanks were 100% loss. I don't know if it will help you but "willie" a 6 inch turq was laying flat on the tank ground with sores and rot. He is looking at me right now as I type this - looks beautiful. I have no idea how my guys came down with it but it is fast moving - Tetrocycline saved those 2 tanks of fish - I don't know if it will save yours./ Good luck - if you use it follow instructions to the letter.

[sammy]

By the way - if its what I had, there is no quarentine tank - all your discus will get it and have to go through it. Let me know how you make out.

[Chicago Discus]

.

[PP_GBR]

JJ:

Please tell me you're not going to put your fish under another series of treatments again. Proper diagnosis will ultimately put the illness to rest. Seem like you're doing a trial & error of med experiment at the expense of your own fish. Do not medicate the fish unless you know for sure what you are treating for.

Why don't you just take a deep breath and walk away, and leave the fish alone for a day or two? Come back to it when you are more relax to think it through.

[jjgunshot]

Hey guys,

My fish are starting to look better but new problem, It says to treat for 7 days then do water change. My qt is starting to spike ammonia and my fish arent showing well to that I dont think? Should I do a water change just before I dose again or use prime to keep it down for now?

I also have a product called Seachem Stability but not sure if that will help keep things level while the treatment is going on

[sammy]

What are you treating with?

[jjgunshot]

Hey guys, Just wanted to let you all know my fish are on the mend! Didnt loose any! Treating 4 of them in a qt for 8 days so far and almost looks like the disease is gone!. Thank you all for your help!

I however have an issue with the upstairs tank and the fish darting! They dart for any reason at all! I tested the ph and its off the charts in the normal ph range, I believe it is 8 or more! I tested my water storage tank and it is stable with the main tank but I think the high ph might be causing an issue?

[Trier20]

Hey guys, Just wanted to let you all know my fish are on the mend! Didnt loose any! Treating 4 of them in a qt for 8 days so far and almost looks like the disease is gone!. Thank you all for your help!

I however have an issue with the upstairs tank and the fish darting! They dart for any reason at all! I tested the ph and its off the charts in the normal ph range, I believe it is 8 or more! I tested my water storage tank and it is stable with the main tank but I think the high ph might be causing an issue?

As long as the ph is consistant it shouldn't matter my ph is off the chart on the high ph test kit and mine are good. Are they in a high traffic area?

[jjgunshot]

No but they are on a creaky wood floor? They see alot of traffic from a distance as well as people pass our kitchen they can see through the doorway into the kitchen.