Incoming Water Filtering

[scuba guy]

I use a two stage Whirlpool incoming water filter to fill/change water in my Aquarium.
Right now it consists of a sediment filter (white cartridge) followed by a charcoal/carbon filter (black cartridge).

I am thinking of removing the sediment filter (white cartridge) and replacing it with a carbon filter so I would have two carbon filters in series. I noticed that the sediment filter handles down to 25 microns, but the carbon filter handles down to 2 microns. I am thinking I might as well get more carbon filtering (especially for Chloramine). It was my expectation that the white cartridge would eliminate the sediment and prevent the carbon filter from clogging to soon. It doesn't seem to matter in this case.

Has anyone else done this? What water change filter setup do you use?

[troysdiiscus]

I use a RO system that I use 1 to 3 ratio with tap and age. I have the problem that you are having with chloramine. All the research and talking to a friend that works at the Raleigh enviromental resource in Raleigh NC about chloramine, the carbon will not take out the chloramine because its a bonding agent with ammonia for a disinfectant for bacteria in your tap. The RO system I use is a 4 stage system that breaks down hard and dissolved minerals. With regular chlorine it can dissolve quickly when it sets but chloramine does not. I have to use prime to help do that. Also found that my API ammonia test kit gives me a false positive because of the chloramine cause it does not test for free ammonia (that is toxic). Seachem I believe does this with a detectable level down to .05 ppm, which I will be trying. If I am wrong someone can please correct me. Good luck....I am sending him a sample so that he can do a thorough analysis to give me a complete breakdown of TDS and etc...

[scuba guy]

I use a RO system that I use 1 to 3 ratio with tap and age. I have the problem that you are having with chloramine. All the research and talking to a friend that works at the Raleigh enviromental resource in Raleigh NC about chloramine, the carbon will not take out the chloramine because its a bonding agent with ammonia for a disinfectant for bacteria in your tap. The RO system I use is a 4 stage system that breaks down hard and dissolved minerals. With regular chlorine it can dissolve quickly when it sets but chloramine does not. I have to use prime to help do that. Also found that my API ammonia test kit gives me a false positive because of the chloramine cause it does not test for free ammonia (that is toxic). Seachem I believe does this with a detectable level down to .05 ppm, which I will be trying. If I am wrong someone can please correct me. Good luck....I am sending him a sample so that he can do a thorough analysis to give me a complete breakdown of TDS and etc...

Unfortunately I don't have the space to store and age sufficient water (500 gallon aquarium). I use a large whirlpool whole house filter in two stages (first stage: sediment; second stage: carbon) hence my original question. The carbon will break apart the Chloramine bond and pass the ammonia on and absorb the Chlorine. In high flow rates, that is exactly what happened to me a few years ago and I did a good job of wiping out my aquarium before I realized what was happening. Free ammonia coming out of the second stage filter from the tap was over 3.0 ppm (deep yellow using a typical test kit). Free ammonia before the filter was zero. When I slowed the water rate down, the carbon was able to absorb the Chloramine as Chloramine sufficiently. But I did have to lower the flow rate substantially (steady trickle stream). My water changes became an all day affair. I would run water into the aquarium in one end and out the other into a drain in a steady state condition. Water changes became an 8 hour process. It works, my fish are healthy - no ammonia and crystal clear water. But I hate doing it. Way too long on a Saturday.

I am testing (asking here first) if I add a second carbon filter will it enable me to increase my flow rate (which I suspect).

By the way - Ammonia in drinking water is quite common and not "bad" for you in low concentrations. It is after all what the body produces as a byproduct of metabolism (and our fish produce of course). Municipal water companies would rather you have ammonia in your water than letting bacteria get through. Chloramine is incredibly stable until it meets Carbon. Carbon likes to rip it apart absorbing the Chlorine and only some of the Ammonia. More carbon is what the water company suggests I add in order to get more (but not all) of the ammonia.

[troysdiiscus]

Ok so let me ask you this...Should I be using activated carbon in my canister or use a filter at point of entry under my sink to help remove it? I know there are different types of carbon and name brands, what is the best to use, I read Spartan was the best? no idea....

[scuba guy]

Ok so let me ask you this...Should I be using activated carbon in my canister or use a filter at point of entry under my sink to help remove it? I know there are different types of carbon and name brands, what is the best to use, I read Spartan was the best? no idea....

Only use carbon "once" at point of entry. Leaving Carbon in your canister filter is not beneficial to Discus. You want to remove incoming contaminants and that's it.

I would use Carbon in the canister to remove medication, etc. - but only for a short time (week or two).

[troysdiiscus]

ok thanks yeah I dont use in canister unless medication is used. I have my RO system and using 1 to 3 ratio in 30 gallon aging barrel for 24 hours, using prime to help detox should I be ok with doing that.

[GrayLadyPat]

Something I have learned very recent.y is that some city water systems are now using something called Chlorine Dioxide to purify their water. If your water supply is treated this way, you will have to run activated carbon in your canisters.

I have no way of storing and aging water, so I am using carbon in my canisters, and prime in the tank at water changes. Seems to be working well, the fish are healthy and I don't have the issues with the fish becoming ill-looking after a water change. I will tell you it was a real shock to do a water change and see my discus all huddling and clamped.

Good luck to you!

[troysdiiscus]

Yes, I stress everyday in search for the perfect solution, I find myself at work thinking of what I can do better for my babies. After WC in an aged barrel, I have not seen any ill effects. I am thinking that with 1 to 3 and at times half and half RO water and tap, in 24 hour aged barrel and adding prime, they are fine and again show no signs of ill effects. The only thing is using the API and the chloramine I am getting a reading of .25 in aged barrel, thinking false positive so I bought a seachem test to check free ammonia that API does not do. I bought the RO system in its on right not cheap so not looking to add to a water filter system on top of it. Just have to keep an eye on it so far no problems but I am long at the long haul. If any suggestions I am wide open to give my babies all I can give..

[scuba guy]

Interesting thread ... we all have different techniques to get the same results ... i.e. no dead fish.

I do notice (although I don't like doing it!) that letting the water in gradually (trickle stream about the size of a pencil in diameter thickness) and draining simultaneously the same amount has zero noticeable affect on my fish. I have a neat set-up that guarantees water level never changes, either losing too much or adding too much. I use a self-correcting siphon method. My discus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihw9kRFac-U) are oblivious to the water change. Of course it takes 8 hours. Water temp will usually drop 4 degrees during this time (sometimes) from 84 to 80 (especially now in January) and then rises back to 84 by the next day. Any nitrate in the aquarium (usually around 5-10) goes to zero. Water becomes extra crystal clear. Slow changes to water are best - but how I wish I could do this faster. Leaving the house while the water is running and draining is unnerving even though I know the method I have works (siphon only lowers/raises so much to match incoming water via the sump).

[alcastro]

You can try catalyst carbon is what the hospitals use to remove chloramine, I began using it last night to treat my in coming water, you would need to slow the rate , my pump is too fast 200 gph, halve the ammonia or chloramine are removed as of this mornig already you can buy a reefillable cartridge and the carbon from the filter guys on line or use amquel ammonia remover works well.

[troysdiiscus]

Thanks I read that catalyst is the best. What brand do you use, think I read that Spartan was tested the highest. How do you have it, in a canister filter on you point of entry? I use prime of coarse.

[alcastro]

I use it as I age my water it's working great. I will send you the info later tonight

[troysdiiscus]

thanks looking forward to seeing it.

[alcastro]

It has no brand name, go to (The Filter guys) website but i think you are in the right track with the two filter maybe the fist use the catalyst carbon then the 2 micron to lower your flow.

[troysdiiscus]

Ok here is what I am thinking, since ph wont matter to me know cause Im not breeding, tap has chloramine. So I am thinking about in my bathroom (tank and aging barrel in bedroom beside it) using an under sink 2 stage system. 10 inch filters. getting 2 canisters and joining them together and use a catalyst carbon filter and what size micron in other filter and what type a sediment filter? and should how should I position the filters, sediment in first and carbon in the second. Not using a well storage tank so will be coming straight from filter system. What flow rate do I use and that is determined by the filters?????? I will fill my aging barrel up for 24 hours before using. Any suggestions and or what you use to make this work, I am having to dose alot with prime to get safe for the tank.

[100fuegos]

Have you guys ever used Zeolites to remove chloramines? I do it.