Emergency break out, need advice!

[Baygon]

Good evening dear discus hobbyist, I started a discus tank last year everything was great until a few days ago. Hope you can share your experience and knowledge with me.

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

About 4 days ago after my routine WC I have added some plants. (the heater broke during WC by accident) The next day one of my BD got CloudyEye, then the rest started having problems as well. Beside the one with CloudyE the others has big pale spots on the bodies. They are still eating but they are clearly not in good status with all darken bodies. I took away the plants the very next day and bought another heater. (was 87F before heater was broken, 78F when broken, now 87F again after adding new heater)



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

6 turned dark, fin rots, pale spots like wounds (still eating)
1 with cloudy eye not eating.


http://imageshack.us/a/img541/6501/img20130217195109.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img145/7044/img20130217195120.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img521/9620/img20130217195132.jpg


3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

Currently using API Fungus CURE with PIMAFIX.
I have Seachem Paraguard but not sure if it can help.
And of course, 50% WC daily.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

Tank size: 30G
Age: 9 months
Size: 7 BD (about 4")

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

50%WC daily since outbreak. Before that twice a week (30%).

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp _87F(30C)_

- ph __7.6___

- ammonia reading _stable__

- nitrite reading _stable_

- nitrate reading _stable___

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

Added new plants. I believe it was the plants that cause the this disaster...

[Jeff O]

Its most likely from the nearly 10 degree temperature drop. Only time will tell. 100% water changes and il bet they will perk up in a week or so.

[Baygon]

Thanks Jeff, so not med necessary?

[Jeff O]

Thanks Jeff, so not med necessary?

Not yet. The fact that they are still eating is good. I wouldn't medicate unless I was sure it was necessary.

[Baygon]

But one of them got cloudy eye and not eating thought. I will observe in the next 3 days if they will get better.

[shawnhu]

Where did you get the plants from and what was in the same tank as the plants where they came from? What types of plants? Pics? Any QT for plants before going on?

[DerekFF]

Also those aren't all blue diamonds. Looks like cobalts or turqs maybe. But I'd definitely keep huge water changes going 50-90% even would be fine. Clean water goes a long ways


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skip]

What is stable?
On ammonia. Nitrate. Nitrite..

Plants don't do that.

Probably a wq problem that they could not deal with anymore

Keep up water changes.. patientance. Fish need time to heal. No med magically works sec u add to water

[Skip]

Ps. Blue diamonds don't have stress bars

[Baygon]

Shawnhu: The plants were in QT tank for a week before transferring to the discus tank, fishes in QT tank were perfectly fine so I did not suspect anything wrong.

Warlock4169: Ammonia (0ppm) - Nitrite (0ppm) - Nitrate (0ppm) - PH (7.6) - PH High range (7.4)

I am not sure if it is the WQ since I follow my WC schedule strictly, forgot to mention that I am also using a Fluval 206 canister, sponge f, and aqueon f that come with the aquarium.

I found an article that describe similar symptom that my fishes have called: Chilodonella Parasite (http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/external/chilodonella.shtml) or Costia Parasite (http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/external/costia_parasite.shtml)

The weakest one died today (see pic) I have taken pics so for future reference.

Right now I am slowly raising the temp to 90F to kill the parasites, 2 tsp salt/10gallon, just did a 100% WC, and finger crossed pray they will make it thru.

http://imageshack.us/a/img836/3999/img20130218202205.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/8654/img20130218202959.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img163/3631/img20130218203026.jpg



Appreciate for all the advice.
Byron

[Baygon]

Here is a pic before I added the plants (a week ago)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6370/c36020130131000939org.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/72/c36020130131000939org.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[shawnhu]

Baygon,

The parasite you speak of also goes by another name, Killer Don. Quick Cure or a PP bath usually can take care of them, but never use both together.

Did you QT the plants and some fish together?

In the future, it's a good idea to hit all plants with a long QT process or with a PP dip.

Please keep us posted.

[Baygon]

Thank you for your prompt reply Shawnhu,

I can't find Quick Cure here in Panama so I will do PP bath.

[shawnhu]

Sounds like a plan, follow PP bath instructions on here or Bidka.

[Baygon]

Will Salt dip be effective as well?

[shawnhu]

I've read that salt dips can be effective, but personal experience has been very harsh on fish. If given the choice, I'm more comfortable with PP.

[sammy]

Salt baths are fine and effective if done right. You will also need to treat that tank or you will be putting the back in the fire. Once you do a salt bath they will have no slime coat. They will look horrible. It will take a few days to look good again. Most people hate Melafix but if you can get it I use it after a salt bath. I prefer 4 minute salt baths w/ 4 teaspoons per gallon. Some people go longer with less salt. Your call. Once they hit the water chase them with your hand to make them swim to clean out their gills. PH is IMPORTANT !!! I tank 2-3 gallons on tank H2O they are already in, put it in a bucket, mix the salt, and the races begin. You must treat the tank with one of MANY products. Quick cure is harder to find now then it used to be.

[nc0gnet0]

Most people hate Melafix but if you can get it I use it after a salt bath. I prefer 4 minute salt baths w/ 4 teaspoons per gallon.

So this is what it has come down to now, the self appointed resident expert is recommending melafix? Are you serious? Oy Vey!

I think simply needs to develope an medication IQ test before anyone is allowed to post advice in the disease section.

[sammy]

I have an incredibly low IQ....obviously....but it does work as a salve after a salt bath. Truth sucks.

[shawnhu]

.

So this is what it has come down to now, the self appointed resident expert is recommending melafix? Are you serious? Oy Vey!

I think simply needs to develope an medication IQ test before anyone is allowed to post advice in the disease section.

Easy there Rick, Sammy is just trying to help. Would have been great if the actual resident expert was around to post his/her recommendations, but I guess the lesser IQ folks had something to share as well. Sammy just posted his experiences, still up to the OP to choose his path of treatment for his fish.

[sammy]

.

So this is what it has come down to now, the self appointed resident expert is recommending melafix? Are you serious? Oy Vey!

I think simply needs to develope an medication IQ test before anyone is allowed to post advice in the disease section.
Some of the people on this board crack me up. A person asks for advice...I respond with factual experience to HELP them. Because you don't like my advice I gotta hear your crap. Whatever. I will CONTINUE to try and HELP anyone who asks explaining what remedies HAVE WORKED for me in the past. I will go away when the mods kick me off for following the rules and trying to assist people. Think and say what you want. Like me, you don't know all the answers and I will continue to explore discus health to no end. Even if I have to defend Melafix, which I have stated is PRETTY USELESS except for SLIME COAT healing...FACTUAL...As a friend has told me in the past..."don't knock it till you try it" your self proclaimed resident expert is here to assist even you.

[troysdiiscus]

lol...yuz guyzzz....does sound like plants could be the isssue, certainly the temp swing didnt help, heck could be none of the above..hah.. I am "NO" expert in disease by any stretch, but having planted tanks without discus my experience I always disinfect my plants with 19 cups of water and 1 cup regular bleach, soak for 2-3 mins and rinse in water then soak in prime solution for 5 mins and put in QT tank for plants. You can also us PP to do the same. Some plants cant take the soak so be careful. How did you QT the plants? Certainly alot of people on here have great experience on disease and hopefully I will never need there advise, lol but I am sure at some point I will, listen to them and make your best educated choice on how to treat. These guys on here are well experienced in those fields.....GOOD LUCK

[sammy]

.

So this is what it has come down to now, the self appointed resident expert is recommending melafix? Are you serious? Oy Vey!

I think simply needs to develope an medication IQ test before anyone is allowed to post advice in the disease section.
I'm still jerked about this comment - I don't know anyone else anywhere who has invested the time and money and space to help sick discus. I have an open door policy for anyone who gets the fish to me. I use my experience to try and save the fish. I then return the fish to the original owner if they want it. I do all this without charge. I have a sick bay wing FULL of 20 highs running constant heat and electric. Humping through no less then 7 assortments of food and a constant production of beefheart. I go through more food per day then most small breeders and I don't make a dime from it. I've taken in entire shipments from stores and run a 14% loss rate. AND even better I gotta read a puked out comment because Rick doesn't like my advice. Hey Rick, Have you saved over 700 DISCUS ??? Didn't think so. To think I manage my family, all this, AND two successful businesses one of which is a major player in the State of RI ....all with a low IQ. Rick = newsflash= help somebody if you are able, if not, GO AWAY...and find out who your talking about before you smash trash at them. Some people are more important in the Discus world then even you.

[nc0gnet0]

Melafix is good for one thing and one thing only.....healing of superficial cuts and scrapes. I am not even sure what "slime coat healing" is. The makers of melafix, API, have never even done any testing on the stuff. It's nothing more that a tea tree oil derivitive that is organic based and might in some cases actually act as a food source for certain bacteria.

It is not anti-bacterial as claimed. To date there has been but one actually independent study done of the medication performed by Dr. Johnson over at Koi-vet.

[sammy]

Did I say it was anti-bacterial? Do you know what part the slime coat plays in healing minor scrapes? Do you think I don't know its tea tree oil derivative? Do you think I take chances on sick discus by putting something in the tank that I am not familiar with? Rick - what happens to a slime coat after a salt bath? Why did I recommend a salt bath instead of PP? Whatever Pal - you keep your ego and your front up. I'll keep trying to save fish.

[sammy]

BTW - fortunately I got a shipment of 9 juvies this morning who need help and are a little more important to me then your opinion. I'm out,.

[Cambik]

BTW - fortunately I got a shipment of 9 juvies this morning who need help and are a little more important to me then your opinion. I'm out,.

Were these Shawnhu's fish by chance?

[Baygon]

Dear Rick and Sammy, I really appreciate the sharing and the help for which are very important for me and others who might get into similar situations as references. But there is no need to argue as there are always differences when it comes to Knowledge vs Personal experience.

Thank you all other members for your advices as well.

Since I have aquarium salt in my apt. I did a 5-7mins 2% solution salt bath for all my discus. (is it necessary that all of them need to "roll over" during bath?)

Btw I am treating the tank with API General Cure that has Prazi+Metro, is that good enough? +90% WC very 2 day


All the best,
Byron

[nc0gnet0]

How long after the new plants were added did the symptoms occur? did you break the heater at the same time? Why is your temperature set at 87?

Do you have a current picture of the fish?

[PP_GBR]

Baygon:

I have used Melafix and Melafix for as long as I have my son first fish. It was 6-7 years ago. If you want to treat your fish with Melafix, it must be used with its sister counterpart, Pimafix. No matter what illness you are treating for, you must use Melafix & Pimafix together. Otherwise, it does not work alone.

HTH.

[shawnhu]

Were these Shawnhu's fish by chance?

Was that really necessary? Do you want to take this to a new level, because I'm just about ready to do just that.

[Cambik]

Always like a good fight.....

[PP_GBR]

Shawnhu:

No need to fight. I'll take your fish anytime. I like the way you train your fish. Your fish adapt to your life style not you adapt to the fish :lol:

[shawnhu]

Shawnhu:

No need to fight. I'll take your fish anytime. I like the way you train your fish. Your fish adapt to your life style not you adapt to the fish :lol:

GBR, thanks for the complements. I let the scum get the best of me. Lost my cool there. Thanks the for picker-upper.

Back to the thread.

[Baygon]

lol...yuz guyzzz....does sound like plants could be the isssue, certainly the temp swing didnt help, heck could be none of the above..hah.. I am "NO" expert in disease by any stretch, but having planted tanks without discus my experience I always disinfect my plants with 19 cups of water and 1 cup regular bleach, soak for 2-3 mins and rinse in water then soak in prime solution for 5 mins and put in QT tank for plants. You can also us PP to do the same. Some plants cant take the soak so be careful. How did you QT the plants? Certainly alot of people on here have great experience on disease and hopefully I will never need there advise, lol but I am sure at some point I will, listen to them and make your best educated choice on how to treat. These guys on here are well experienced in those fields.....GOOD LUCK

Thanks TroyD., I did not treat the plants but only putted them in a separate tank for one week with Seachem Paraguard. I do believe the plants was the cause...and now I hate myself for not doing the QT properly and brought my fishes in danger...sigh.

[shawnhu]

Keep your head up Baygon. Despite what some may believe, none of us are born with all the knowledge in the universe of Discus keeping. Do the best you can for them now and you have nothing to be ashamed of.

[TNT77]

Guys I know Im not a moderator but stop it. If you have issues with each other then create your own thread and work it out there. Though I doubt they will be up very long as quickly as they degrade to just pure insults. Stop taking away from disease threads.

Shawnhu:

No need to fight. I'll take your fish anytime. I like the way you train your fish. Your fish adapt to your life style not you adapt to the fish :lol:
That isn't called training its called survivability.

[Baygon]

How long after the new plants were added did the symptoms occur? did you break the heater at the same time? Why is your temperature set at 87?

Do you have a current picture of the fish?

Hi nc0gnet0, About a day or two, I added the plants when I did my WC and during WC I broke the heater. I read articles in www.simplydiscus.com reccomend high heat treatment which can kill parasites within a week. http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/external/index.shtml

I will post some pics tonight after work.

Thank you nc0gnet0

[Baygon]

Baygon:

I have used Melafix and Melafix for as long as I have my son first fish. It was 6-7 years ago. If you want to treat your fish with Melafix, it must be used with its sister counterpart, Pimafix. No matter what illness you are treating for, you must use Melafix & Pimafix together. Otherwise, it does not work alone.

HTH.

Thank you PP__GBR I will keep that in mind.

[Baygon]

Keep your head up Baygon. Despite what some may believe, none of us are born with all the knowledge in the universe of Discus keeping. Do the best you can for them now and you have nothing to be ashamed of.

Thanks shawnhu, everytime they are in bad shape I always pray that no fish will be lying on the floor when I wake up in the morning or coming home from work.

I take a deep breath everytime I see that they are still alive.

[nc0gnet0]

The amount of time that elasped from when you added the plants/broke the heater until the symptoms developed is very important. What were the plants in? Did you also add soil/substrate to the tank or where the plants potted? If so in what? Are you sure their were no symptoms before you added the plants? Based on the information you have provided so far, parasites would not be on the top of my list for possible causes. Contamination of the water (WQ as skip said) by either something in the soil the plants were in, or even the heater would have been my first suspect, bacterial second, and parasites last. If the symptoms would have taken longer to develope, then I would have given a parasitic infection more plausability.

With that in mind I don't think the salt dip was a good idea IMO. I would never do a salt dip and place the fish back into the tank in which it came, only into a sterile QT tank.

[sammy]

I got caught up in all the menusha of trying to help you out. Apologies - where are we now with your fish?

[Baygon]

The amount of time that elasped from when you added the plants/broke the heater until the symptoms developed is very important. What were the plants in? Did you also add soil/substrate to the tank or where the plants potted? If so in what? Are you sure their were no symptoms before you added the plants? Based on the information you have provided so far, parasites would not be on the top of my list for possible causes. Contamination of the water (WQ as skip said) by either something in the soil the plants were in, or even the heater would have been my first suspect, bacterial second, and parasites last. If the symptoms would have taken longer to develope, then I would have given a parasitic infection more plausability.

With that in mind I don't think the salt dip was a good idea IMO. I would never do a salt dip and place the fish back into the tank in which it came, only into a sterile QT tank.

The plants were added when I did my WC and the heater broke while I was doing the WC. Symtoms started to developed in the 3rd day if I am correct. I did WC during weekend and on the same week the symptoms came out. (I will take note next time to keep record)

Plants were in gravels that comes along in a plastic cup when I bought them from a Pet shop. When I added the plants in my discus tank I added the whole thing just like that without removing anything together with the cup.

All discus were eating except one that was not eating much. All the symptoms developed after the plants/heater case. One of them got Cloudy Eye, and the rest has Fins Rots, White patches and wounds.

I removed the plants right away when one got infected with Cloudy Eye, then the next day the rest started showing illness.

Now that you say it could be something in the subtrate, I think there is a possibility.

So if it is the heater, it could be sudden temp drop? Bacterial infection from substrate? I thought it was parasite since the symptom matches the descriptions from SimplyDiscus.com articles.


1. So far I did a complete WC, poured the water out from Canister Filter, Hang on Filter, wiped the window, filled in water and did a complete WC again then I added the fishes back.
2. Using 1 tspn/5 gallon to keep the bad guys from outrage each WC.
3. Just dosed API General Cure in the 30G tank.
4. Bought a new heater raised temp from 84 to 87.
5. 2% salt bath last night.

Should I stop the salt bath then? Medical supplies here in Panama are so limited I literally need to order most of the medicines online and ship them via freight...

[Baygon]

I got caught up in all the menusha of trying to help you out. Apologies - where are we now with your fish?

Hahaha thanks Sammy...as mentioned above, the last thing I did was a 2% salt bath to all of them last night after I got home from work. This morning they were still eating, I will check later tonight when I come home...fingercrossed**

[shawnhu]

Am I correct to assume that the 2% salt bath is long term, and not a quick dip?

[nc0gnet0]

Cloudy eye is not a symptom of a parasite. I am a bit confused, in your original post you said the symptoms started the next day(cloudy eye) and the rest followed. Then you said symptoms started one-two days after the heater/plant incidence. Now your saying that the symptoms started on the third day. Are you and have you been doing daily 50% water changes?

Also you now mention that prior to this happening that one of the discus was not eating....this is a symptom. By any chance is this the discus that died?

[sammy]

Baygon, As my esteemed colleagues will explain to you many times a Discus will have a multi-faceted illness and can often be treated for one thing at a time. I am just finishing work. I will go over everything tonight and see if I can help. It's great they are eating. Remember - we can only give advice. You will save them.

[sammy]

Your low salt treatment will have no effect if I am right. After examining all of your info I am not satisfied with any of the hypothesis' I've read. I've fought Costia alot. The soars don't look like Costia. Although the parasite could have come in with the plants, its doesn't follow any other path with Costia. So you know the salt will not hurt the fish reguardless. It actually might make them hungry. The dip to 78 can be overrated unless it was a fast drop. If the heater broke the tanks' heat would dissipate depending on common room temp of 68 at about .25-.50 of 1 degree per hour. (Yes I have tested this) One of my clients keeps his discus at 78 ALL THE TIME. I don't agree with this concept as I think it is not healthy for the fish and ultimately weakens them. However - the fish do not thrive at 78 but certainly don't die at 78. If you did a rapid drop in temp you probobly would have thrown them into shock. I'm assuming it was a gradual dip. Following this theory its easy to see that a fish used to 84-86 finds itself in 78 could have been weakened. I mean to say if a fish is adjusted to living at 78 it will tolerate it better. Now to the real problem. Cloudy eyes, sever fin rot, hemorrhagic septicemia, caudal rot its all pointing to a Bacterial infection to me. There are many paths you can go. I'm known to push TC TETRACYCLINE because it works. It covers many gram positive and gram negative. If all fish show symptoms I would dose the entire tank 4 full cycles following the directions to the letter. If you have a microscope handy we may be able to put it to good use. In my opinion you've been chasing poor leads. I wish you luck, Sincerely, M

[sammy]

Lastly, I am a strong proponent for WC's but I think your fish need medical help. WC's are a great healthy lifestyle and preventative measure but when you got the flu you need drugs,.

[sammy]

PS - Now i'll go home.

[sammy]

Forgot to tell you - if you are going to go with Tetracy make sure there is no other medicine in the tank.

[Baygon]

About 5-7 mins

[Baygon]

Here are the pics, if you have any advice please let me know.

[Baygon]

http://imageshack.us/a/img69/1852/img20130220212035.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img541/8841/img20130220212009.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img41/1536/img20130220212020.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img341/6964/img20130220211822.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img594/4290/img20130220211811.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img19/518/img20130220211802.jpg

[sammy]

I would definitely treat with tetracycline and I wouldn't wait till more die to do it.

[nc0gnet0]

Where did you get these fish and how long have you had them? Not a big fan of tetracycline myself, prefer furan 2......are you sure you haven't had an ammonia/nitrite issue?

[Baygon]

Where did you get these fish and how long have you had them? Not a big fan of tetracycline myself, prefer furan 2......are you sure you haven't had an ammonia/nitrite issue?

From LFS that brought them from Miami and I got them since Sept last year. They have been fine (from not eating to eating) all the way until now. I have never never had an ammonia/nitrite issue, have been checking the WQ weekly and with frequent WC there should not be problem... :S

[Baygon]

Cloudy eye is not a symptom of a parasite. I am a bit confused, in your original post you said the symptoms started the next day(cloudy eye) and the rest followed. Then you said symptoms started one-two days after the heater/plant incidence. Now your saying that the symptoms started on the third day. Are you and have you been doing daily 50% water changes?

Also you now mention that prior to this happening that one of the discus was not eating....this is a symptom. By any chance is this the discus that died?

I was not sure which day exactly the symptoms started. But after thinking deeply I believe it was the 3rd day. My normal routine is twice a week 50%, Wednesday and Saturday. But since the incident I have been doing daily WC to keep the top WQ.

The one that died had been eating but last month I do realize it has fin rot out of nowhere and I thought it was abusing from other discus. (fins were healing afterward) The one that is not eating is still here.

[Baygon]

Cloudy eye is not a symptom of a parasite. I am a bit confused, in your original post you said the symptoms started the next day(cloudy eye) and the rest followed. Then you said symptoms started one-two days after the heater/plant incidence. Now your saying that the symptoms started on the third day. Are you and have you been doing daily 50% water changes?

Also you now mention that prior to this happening that one of the discus was not eating....this is a symptom. By any chance is this the discus that died?

I was not sure which day exactly the symptoms started. But after thinking deeply I believe it was the 3rd day. My normal routine is twice a week 50%, Wednesday and Saturday. But since the incident I have been doing daily WC to keep the top WQ.

The one that died had been eating but last month I do realize it has fin rot out of nowhere and I thought it was abusing from other discus. (fins were healing afterward) The one that is not eating is still here.

[Baygon]

Sammy and nc0gnet0, once again thank you, really appreciate this.

It is too late now to get antibacterial med but I will get them tomorrow at pet store. I am doing a WC now, is it ok to add salt or better not?

Since they look kind of in deep sh**t I am using what I have on my hand to stop the infection get worse. I found out I have Seachem Paraguard and apparently it deals with bacteria, parasite, fungal and viral. You guys think it will help?

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ParaGuard.html

[PP_GBR]

Baygon:

If I got it right, you dosed your fish with General Cure? Is it supposed to treat internal worms?

[shawnhu]

General Cure has prazi, so it does help with internal worms.

[PP_GBR]

Exactly, metro & prazi. Is his problems external bacteria related? If he keeps dosing the fish with meds without proper diagnosis, I'm afraid the fish cann't endure treatment after treatment without a break. JMO

[shawnhu]

If General Cure was used, it's mainly an internal med, not external, yes. In his defense, both metro and prazi is a mild med, IMO.

[PP_GBR]

I feel a bit relief. Looking as his fish remind me of JJs fish. Sometimes it's best to leave the fish alone and let them recover on their own.

Baygon:

How is the fish breathing?

[sammy]

IMO these fish will not recover on their own. They will die one at a time. For whatever reason If I recommend a type of antibiotic you will then be told by another member to use something else - with no explanation why. Furan 2 is a good AB, I have used it, it works, IMO Tetracycline is better for a wider group unknown bacterial infections. MY POINT is get antibiotics in that tank and fast. If you have aged water do a WC before you put it in. I still have not seen any reason you needed to treat for internal problems and your temp drop is overrated. I would bet that didn't cause this. It may have contributed a bit but it was NOT the source. IF you can not find tetracycline go with furan 2. I would NOT go with eurithromycin or sulpher. I find erithromycin very effective but in a very small window of bacteria and sulfpher seems to cure short term and your fighting with the same bacteria within 8-12 days. Good Luck.

[sammy]

Make sure whatever medicine you have in that tank is expired. If you put it in yesterday make sure it had only a 24 hour cycle. Most of that stuff is strongest in the first 12 but if you cross medicate you could end all this real fast. If you are concerned about that you can run a carbon filter to clear out residual meds. I have never used the seachem product you mentioned. Again, do a aged WC before treatment and make sure there is no other source for cross contamination from medication.

[nc0gnet0]

Oxytet's effectiveness is reduced as ph increases. This is due to the fact in binds with calcium, typically the source of an alkaline Ph. Furan 2 does not suffer this drawback. Also, oxytet has been around for some time and as a result many strains have developed a resistance. Oxytet is also very light sensitive. Furan 2 is a symbiotic combination of two antibiotics, making it more difficult for the bacteria to develope resistance.

I would like to ask the OP about the feces of the fish prior to this outbreak, a few appear thing and immancipated to my eyes.

I would also like to know the manner in which the salt dips were performed, or was it actually a salt bath that was done.

[sammy]

Oxytet's effectiveness is reduced as ph increases. This is due to the fact in binds with calcium, typically the source of an alkaline Ph. Furan 2 does not suffer this drawback. Also, oxytet has been around for some time and as a result many strains have developed a resistance. Oxytet is also very light sensitive. Furan 2 is a symbiotic combination of two antibiotics, making it more difficult for the bacteria to develope resistance.

This is factual and a great answer. IMO it is highly unlikely your discus have developed resistance and IMO tetracycline is effective on a wider scape of unknown bacteria source then Furan 2. We actually could go at this all day. The point is get AB in that tank.

[PP_GBR]

Baygon:

How are the fish doing and when was the last time you change Aqueon filter cartridge? Is there activated carbon in your canister filter?

[Baygon]

Just an update gentlemen,

After one died, there is another that has severe infection symptoms is having balancing problem and it is floating upside down and mostly side-way. The rest are still "ok".

I have managed to get API tetracycline and did 80% WC and started first treatment to tetracycline.

I hope the severee one will get better by tomorrow morning...


Regards,

[Baygon]

Oxytet's effectiveness is reduced as ph increases. This is due to the fact in binds with calcium, typically the source of an alkaline Ph. Furan 2 does not suffer this drawback. Also, oxytet has been around for some time and as a result many strains have developed a resistance. Oxytet is also very light sensitive. Furan 2 is a symbiotic combination of two antibiotics, making it more difficult for the bacteria to develope resistance.

I would like to ask the OP about the feces of the fish prior to this outbreak, a few appear thing and immancipated to my eyes.

I would also like to know the manner in which the salt dips were performed, or was it actually a salt bath that was done.

The feces I saw were reddish pink prior outbreak.

I followed the instruction from this site: http://www.ukdiscus.co.uk/library/discus-health/salt-dip.html which come from the same source the one this forum has that was posted by Eddie. I made a 2% solution.

[Baygon]

Baygon:

How are the fish doing and when was the last time you change Aqueon filter cartridge? Is there activated carbon in your canister filter?

I never use carbon since it does more harm then goods IMO. They are very skkitsih currently but still in bright color and no clamp fins except one that I mentioned above which is in a much more severre situation: balancing problem, almost upside down and side way most of the time.

All of them are breathing heavily.

Should I lower the TEMP down? Currently it is 87F. I am a bit afraid the AB and Heat will lower too much oxygen but I have the canister and sponge filters.

[Baygon]

Found an intereseting article related to my problem...

http://www.exoticfishforum.com/threads/discus-diseases-bacterial-external-skin-infection.3745/ (http://http://www.exoticfishforum.com/threads/discus-diseases-bacterial-external-skin-infection.3745/)

[PP_GBR]

B:

The link is not working. You do not use the filter cartrige in the Aqueon filter at all, do you? If you do, there is activated carbon inside the cartridge. You can add extra airstone in the tank, lower the temp (not sure the AB requires high heat or not) or keep the water level 2-3 inch below the rim. If the fish is swimming sideway, he is definitely under lot of stress. How was he acting before treatment? Keep the tank light off.

Good luck with the treament.

[GrayLadyPat]

From another discus newbie, but an aquarium veteran:

Keep in mind this is just an observation: When you put the plants in the tank, you said you didn't remove any substrate/planting material. It's very possible that could have been the culprit. Then combined with a major temp drop, which will weaken their immune systems, so that something that may not have bothered them in a normal situation might have attacked their little weakened bodies.

Whichever treatment you decide to settle on, I recommend that any time you get a new plant, even if you QT it for the right length of time, don't use the stuff it was planted in. You never know what has settled in there, including bacteria/viruses and parasites that may not have ever been in your tank before. Especially if it was grown in a LFS tank in a pot.

Every plant I have ever gotten has been stripped of its substrate and given a bleach bath (very low dosage dip-style) before QTing in a bucket. The bleach makes them look horrid for a time, but if there were any surface contaminates, they're gone.

About the heater breakage... When it broke, did any stray electrical charge run through the tank? or was it already unplugged? I have had a case years ago with a tank full of rainbows that they got shocked (long story) and then died one by one in a relatively short time after being perfectly fine for over a year... Never did find out what happened to them, but I personally believe that the shock had something to do with it.

I wish I had some knowledgable advice, but I don't know enough about treating ill discus to offer any except to wish you luck.

[sammy]

Byron, No one would kid you about the dire straits your fish are in. Follow the directions on the AB and wait it out. Hopefully you caught it in time. I would keep your temp at 84. Often you will suffer losses while trying to diagnose. Also - AB works quick so if it is working you will see improvement within 3-4 days. I will be out of town until Sunday night. I will not be able to check in. Remember this. It's a challenge. Even when you lose your fish, knowing you did everything you could to save them is a victory. You have done the best possible in a lousy situation. Many people turn away and don't want to deal with the drama of serious fish illness. It's all a learning experience and it will help you save your future fish if needed. You've done it right. Good Luck,M

[shawnhu]

Hang in there Baygon. Ask if you need anything else.

[Baygon]

MY aqueon hanging filter has a bio sponge only, no carbon. I believe the bacteria infected the bladder causing the balance problem but hopefully the AB will help... light is off, I lowered the fluval caniter flow rate to minimize its stress.

B

[Baygon]

Thanks for the sharing GrayLadyPat, will take note and follow the strict procedure.

It was actually my fault that when I WC I forgot to turn off the Finnex controller and when the water level dropped below the sensor the sensor think that the temp is dropping and start heating up and melted the plastic holder then it just overheat and died. (I did clean up the melted plastic just in case if anyone think that it would cause the outbreak)

[Baygon]

Byron, No one would kid you about the dire straits your fish are in. Follow the directions on the AB and wait it out. Hopefully you caught it in time. I would keep your temp at 84. Often you will suffer losses while trying to diagnose. Also - AB works quick so if it is working you will see improvement within 3-4 days. I will be out of town until Sunday night. I will not be able to check in. Remember this. It's a challenge. Even when you lose your fish, knowing you did everything you could to save them is a victory. You have done the best possible in a lousy situation. Many people turn away and don't want to deal with the drama of serious fish illness. It's all a learning experience and it will help you save your future fish if needed. You've done it right. Good Luck,M

Thanks for the cheering Sammy, reading this certainly make me to keep up and especially this is one hell of an expensive hobby...and everytime I lose a fish I loss money ($80.00 each they are selling here in Panama) time, and patience....but hey, I enjoy it! It is very challenging for me but when I see them happy and eating with nice coloring the satisfaction is so good I can´t describe.

B

[nc0gnet0]

I WC I forgot to turn off the Finnex controller and when the water level dropped below the sensor the sensor think that the temp is dropping and start heating up and melted the plastic holder then it just overheat and died. (I did clean up the melted plastic just in case if anyone think that it would cause the outbreak)

This is what I was getting at earlier...while certain people were fixated on the temperature drop, my concern was a contaminate that might have leached from the inside the heater. Long shot, but a possibility, especially if this was a titanium heater filled with an iron oxide like material. Not a concern if it was a simple glass heater with tungsten heater coils wrapped around a ceramic.

BTW, IMO anything Finnex is absolute crap.

Rick

[PP_GBR]

Rick:

I was thinking the same too.

B:

Discus are just like us. We do get sick and so do discus. Unfortunately, they can not tell us how they feel so we keep guessing. Good luck.

[Baygon]

This is what I was getting at earlier...while certain people were fixated on the temperature drop, my concern was a contaminate that might have leached from the inside the heater. Long shot, but a possibility, especially if this was a titanium heater filled with an iron oxide like material. Not a concern if it was a simple glass heater with tungsten heater coils wrapped around a ceramic.

BTW, IMO anything Finnex is absolute crap.

Rick

Rick,

The broken heater is Aqueon brand (the one that comes along with the aquarium kit), I am using the Finnex temp controller (it connects the Aqueon heater or any heater) to help maintain better the water temp and IMO it is works fine helping me to raise or drop slowly the temp.

B

[shawnhu]

Believe that heater is a glass heater but the mount is plastic. I'm guessing the mount melted and then the glass shattered. Just a wild guess. Either case, the mess was cleaned up.

[John_Nicholson]

But what did the melted plastic leech into the water....

-john

[shawnhu]

But what did the melted plastic leech into the water....

-john

John, there was no mention of any plastic coming in contact with any water in the tank. I think we should lay off the assumptions here unless the OP states so.

[John_Nicholson]

Your right. I am sure you have all of the answers so there is no need for me to ask any questions. I made a stupid mistake...I saw where you mentioned melted plastic so I went from there. Why on earth I would ever base anything off what you said is beyond me. Anyone with with at least a grade school education would know better.

-john

[George001]

Hey Byron,
Stick in there. I know that Discus keeping can be somewhat challenging. I am also new in keeping discus, and am still learning. Hope your Discus gets healthy real soon.

If I am not mistaken, you mentioned that you did purchase some discus in a Miami LFS. If you are ever back in Miami, try out Jack Wattley here in Miami, it might be a better option for you in the future. I have heard that he has awesome Discus. I personally haven't seen his Discus yet. One of these days I will drive down to check them out(I only live about 1/2 hour from Miami).

Buena Suerte (Good Luck),
George

[John_Nicholson]

Jack has not bred discus in a very, very long time. Gabe does some breeding but I think most of the fish are imported and labeled as Jack Wattley discus. They still might be good but I would buy from a sponsor here first.

-john

[sammy]

I found a computer in this hotel - how are they doing?

[sammy]

Gabe does some breeding but I think most of the fish are imported and labeled as Jack Wattley discus.

-john

WOW - no joke. I had no idea they were being imported. They do look great in the ads! (of course)

[Baygon]

Hey Byron,
Stick in there. I know that Discus keeping can be somewhat challenging. I am also new in keeping discus, and am still learning. Hope your Discus gets healthy real soon.

If I am not mistaken, you mentioned that you did purchase some discus in a Miami LFS. If you are ever back in Miami, try out Jack Wattley here in Miami, it might be a better option for you in the future. I have heard that he has awesome Discus. I personally haven't seen his Discus yet. One of these days I will drive down to check them out(I only live about 1/2 hour from Miami).

Buena Suerte (Good Luck),
George

Thanks George, there is a misunderstanding here and just to clarify. The Discus I bought here in Panama from a LFS, were brought (imported) from Miami FL. About 4 hours flight distance. Here in Panama we have no breeders so all Discus are imported.

[Baygon]

I found a computer in this hotel - how are they doing?

Thank you for asking Sammy,

Well I did 30% WC today and dosed 2nd treatment of Tetracycline. The second severe one died with heavy infection. The cloudy eye is starting to have balancing problem hanging on the top corner of the tank alone by itself, the rest are hiding behind the sponge filter.

Btw should I add salt meanwhile treating with Tetracycline? I am lowering the temp little by little to 84 (currently 86). Is there anything else I can do beside daily WC and Tetracycline?


Regards,
B

[shawnhu]

If I recall, the AB calls for full dose, wait 24 hrs and dose again. Wait 24 hrs Then a 20% water change and dose again. Wait 24 hrs and repeat 2 more doses. Total of 4 doses across 5 days. That is one cycle of treatments. Am I wrong?

[Baygon]

Yes Shawnhu, it is almost the same with API's.

Btw this morning I found a lots of bubbles forming on the top and yellowish stuff floating. Any idea what could they be?

[shawnhu]

When does the meds expire? Only time I've seen yellowish stuff floating around was when I used expired meds in a pinch. The AB powder would not mix as well as the non expired. Other than that, your guess is as good as mine.

[Baygon]

I just checked the expire date, they are good until 2014. Strange...

[DerekFF]

Antibiotics like tetracycline or erythromycin commonly cause frothy buildup at the top that can be either red or yellow/orange.


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[DerekFF]

Double post


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[sammy]

What's the status?

[Baygon]

Hi folks,

After changing them to a QT tank, the fishes seem to look better (except the cloudy eye one still has cloudy eye). So far this battle I have loss 3 lovely fishes out of 7.

I have disinfected the main tank and clean all the accessories.

Can I put back the "good ones" to the main tank and leave the cloudy eye one or should I wait until all recovered?

[shawnhu]

Baygon, seems like every time I post something, an Internet expert chimes in and will say something to the extent of the replies has been comical. I would just wait for such person to chime in. It's like clockwork, give it a few minutes after this post goes up.

If you still would like my assistance, please feel free to PM me.