Just got some discus

[Misfit]

So I have quite a few questions.

I have a 55 gallon planted tank, its been established over a year. Its took me a while to figure out what I wanted to do for my main fish, and after much research, I decided to go with discus. I know they're a lot of work, but I think they'll be worth it. Tested water levels, they're perfect, 0 ammonia 0 nitrite, 30-40 nitrate, 7.0 ph. I currently have 9 glass catfish, 3 albino cory cats, 1 bristlenose pleco, 1 yellow longfin bristlenose pleco, and 2 kuhli loaches who bury themselves in gravel and never come out. My original plan was to get 2 Discus to start with, and add some gradually and end with 6-8 in my tank.

Am I overstocking? I've read that corys and glass catfish are compatible with discus, but I want to do this right. My tank is gravel substrate w/ fake plants, and I was going to slowly start converting it to live plants, is that going to be a problem? I only got them yesterday, but they have hidden behind this huge castle I have in my tank, should I be worried. I've tried feeding beefheart and a discus frozen cube too, but they really didn't come out to eat. Is that normal?

[shawnhu]

If they are adults, your tank shouldn't be too much of a problem. Lots of folks will tell you the tank is too small, and that you'll need at least 5 discus to school.

If they are still growing, you may experience a problem while feeding, as the gravel will collect a lot of food. Sand is a better choice for a bottom if you didn't want bare bottom.

[Misfit]

If they are adults, your tank shouldn't be too much of a problem. Lots of folks will tell you the tank is too small, and that you'll need at least 5 discus to school.

If they are still growing, you may experience a problem while feeding, as the gravel will collect a lot of food. Sand is a better choice for a bottom if you didn't want bare bottom.

I was planning on switching to sand eventually. I don't think they're full grown, they are about 3 or 4 inches, is that full grown?

I almost with I didn't have the huge castle in there. Its almost wide as about half of the tank, guess they like to use it to hide behind...

[shawnhu]

Castle might be ok, but large gravel will degrade water quality fast.

[Misfit]

Does it matter what type of sand I get? And if I do it soon, do I need to worry about it over-stressing the fish? Since I would have to drain the tank temporarily move the fish to put the sand in. I have 2 penguin 350 biowheel filters, would that disturb the nitrogen cycle if all the water is replaced?

[shawnhu]

You can look into the different types of sand folks here use.

If the sand is clean, you can shut off the filters and just fill in the sand, won't disturb the fish.

If you want to empty the tank, as long as the filter media is wet and aerated, the bacteria can survive for a few hours.

[TNT77]

At your current stocking level you will be seriously overstocked by adding any more fish. Glass cats can get to 6" each unless you mean a ghost cat which only gets to 3".

[Misfit]

At your current stocking level you will be seriously overstocked by adding any more fish. Glass cats can get to 6" each unless you mean a ghost cat which only gets to 3".

I was always under the impression that glass and ghost cats are the same, but they are full grown and only about 3"

[SMB2]

Nitrate 30-40 ppm? 5-10 ppm is better. What is your tap water Nitrate? How do you plan on doing WCs?
The "huge castle" will eventually take up swimming room and make it harder to clean the bottom.

[TNT77]

I was always under the impression that glass and ghost cats are the same, but they are full grown and only about 3"
Glass cats have more vertebra and also get quite a bit larger. Taking into consideration your current stocking levels then adding in substrate and decor..imo I would not add discus. You have room for a group of dither fish but not a group of discus.

[Misfit]

I have a aqueon water changer I hook up to my sink and gravel vac w/ that as well.

[SMB2]

I have a aqueon water changer I hook up to my sink and gravel vac w/ that as well.

Start reading some of the threads about aged water.
Crap accumulates under rocks, wood, castles and contributes to N load. Plus you can't vac under it.
WC is a chief way to bring down nitrates.

[MRQuad]

Agreed with the posters above me, sand is better than gravel.

The poop is hard to see when it's time to siphon and do water change in a gravel, whereas if you are using sand, the poop is visible and easy to siphon up.

[cjr8420]

hit up the stickies the the beginner section and read read read

[GrayLadyPat]

You may have some issues with your glass cats/ghost cats...

The water parameters for discus are somewhat different from them, and they may not do as well with the higher temps. It's possible that they will be ok, but in my limited experiences, they are comfortable in a bit coller water. They may last years, or they may not last more than a couple months. Good luck with them.

[Misfit]

Ok, so I am definitely learning things the hard way. I have now lost one of the 2 discus. To be honest, I bought these discus from a LFS. It was one I trusted and have always have good experience getting fish from, but I'm seeing that discus are a different animal. I have been religious on the water changes, and my levels look good. I still need to switch my substrate over from gravel to pfs, as I see that will be way better. The one that died, though never seemed right. He always hid in the castle and didn't really come out much while the other discus would come out everyday. He had stress bars from the beginning, I just figured that was part of his markings.

The problem didn't start until I did a water change a few days ago. I decided to remove the huge castle I had in the tank to give them move swimming room and to be able to gravel vacuum well under the castle. I woke up the next morning, and that discus was sideways swimming and flopping all over the tank. About an hour later, he died. So now, I only have one discus in the tank. The temperature is 85 degrees though, and my plecos, glass catfish, and corys are all doing fine in the warmer water.

So I don't know what to do now. I know its probably not good to only leave 1 discus by himself. Should I switch over to sand first, and then look to get a couple more discus? He is doing fine by himself right now.

[shawnhu]

Ok, so I am definitely learning things the hard way. I have now lost one of the 2 discus. To be honest, I bought these discus from a LFS. It was one I trusted and have always have good experience getting fish from, but I'm seeing that discus are a different animal. I have been religious on the water changes, and my levels look good. I still need to switch my substrate over from gravel to pfs, as I see that will be way better. The one that died, though never seemed right. He always hid in the castle and didn't really come out much while the other discus would come out everyday. He had stress bars from the beginning, I just figured that was part of his markings.

The problem didn't start until I did a water change a few days ago. I decided to remove the huge castle I had in the tank to give them move swimming room and to be able to gravel vacuum well under the castle. I woke up the next morning, and that discus was sideways swimming and flopping all over the tank. About an hour later, he died. So now, I only have one discus in the tank. The temperature is 85 degrees though, and my plecos, glass catfish, and corys are all doing fine in the warmer water.

So I don't know what to do now. I know its probably not good to only leave 1 discus by himself. Should I switch over to sand first, and then look to get a couple more discus? He is doing fine by himself right now.

The removal of the castle most likely caused your water column to be contaminated with toxins, this has been discussed a lot across many fish keeping forums.

Sorry for your loss. Do you intend to continue to keep Discus?

[SMB2]

Not sure it was the Castle since the fish didn't sound all that great to start.
So to your question. Yes, the one discus would certainly be better off in a school. But don't you think you need to get the tank settled first? You may or may not loose some more fish/ the discus, but having things stabilize will help any new additions, if you plan on continuing with discus.
Was your water change with Tap or aged water? What is you tap PH and Nitrate?
Certainly now is the time to think about the substrate change you mentioned. In which case it might be best to have a spare barrel/tank available so you can keep the fish in some tank water, clean the tank, add clean washed substrate, plants etc, all the while keeping your aged filters wet. If you have everything ready to go, it should not take a long time, an hour or so. Fill the tank 1/2 new (aged tap) water and the rest from your fish barrel.
Your Nitrates should be down after this. But with the change keep an eye on all parameters for several days, because of the big change.
Then sit back and see how things go. See how the discus reacts, how well it feeds etc. I would wait a month if it is doing well then consider additions.

This is just one person's suggestion. Lots of bright people here and they my pass on some better or to you easier ideas. Make a plan so you can make a move with as little turmoil as possible. In the meantime keep up the aged WCs. It is good practice!
Sorry for your loss, but there is a lot to be gained from added experience.

[Misfit]

Not sure it was the Castle since the fish didn't sound all that great to start.
So to your question. Yes, the one discus would certainly be better off in a school. But don't you think you need to get the tank settled first? You may or may not loose some more fish/ the discus, but having things stabilize will help any new additions, if you plan on continuing with discus.
Was your water change with Tap or aged water? What is you tap PH and Nitrate?
Certainly now is the time to think about the substrate change you mentioned. In which case it might be best to have a spare barrel/tank available so you can keep the fish in some tank water, clean the tank, add clean washed substrate, plants etc, all the while keeping your aged filters wet. If you have everything ready to go, it should not take a long time, an hour or so. Fill the tank 1/2 new (aged tap) water and the rest from your fish barrel.
Your Nitrates should be down after this. But with the change keep an eye on all parameters for several days, because of the big change.
Then sit back and see how things go. See how the discus reacts, how well it feeds etc. I would wait a month if it is doing well then consider additions.

This is just one person's suggestion. Lots of bright people here and they my pass on some better or to you easier ideas. Make a plan so you can make a move with as little turmoil as possible. In the meantime keep up the aged WCs. It is good practice!
Sorry for your loss, but there is a lot to be gained from added experience.

I will keep it up. I haven't used any aged water, I just learned about that in the last week or so. I did those tests on my tap water, and my nitrates are at 0, my ph is at 7.6. Not sure if that is a big enough difference from my tank usually sitting at 7.0 to cause a problem.

As far as switching the substrate, I was thinking about switching over to sand in several sessions, maybe changing over 1/3 of it at a time, so it doesn't mess with the bacterial composition of the tank too much at one time. Is this a good way to go?

[Misfit]

Not sure it was the Castle since the fish didn't sound all that great to start.
So to your question. Yes, the one discus would certainly be better off in a school. But don't you think you need to get the tank settled first? You may or may not loose some more fish/ the discus, but having things stabilize will help any new additions, if you plan on continuing with discus.
Was your water change with Tap or aged water? What is you tap PH and Nitrate?
Certainly now is the time to think about the substrate change you mentioned. In which case it might be best to have a spare barrel/tank available so you can keep the fish in some tank water, clean the tank, add clean washed substrate, plants etc, all the while keeping your aged filters wet. If you have everything ready to go, it should not take a long time, an hour or so. Fill the tank 1/2 new (aged tap) water and the rest from your fish barrel.
Your Nitrates should be down after this. But with the change keep an eye on all parameters for several days, because of the big change.
Then sit back and see how things go. See how the discus reacts, how well it feeds etc. I would wait a month if it is doing well then consider additions.

This is just one person's suggestion. Lots of bright people here and they my pass on some better or to you easier ideas. Make a plan so you can make a move with as little turmoil as possible. In the meantime keep up the aged WCs. It is good practice!
Sorry for your loss, but there is a lot to be gained from added experience.

I will keep it up. I haven't used any aged water, I just learned about that in the last week or so. I did those tests on my tap water, and my nitrates are at 0, my ph is at 7.6. Not sure if that is a big enough difference from my tank usually sitting at 7.0 to cause a problem.

As far as switching the substrate, I was thinking about switching over to sand in several sessions, maybe changing over 1/3 of it at a time, so it doesn't mess with the bacterial composition of the tank too much at one time. Is this a good way to go?

[shawnhu]

If you aggressively gravel vac, you can start the removal process that way by forcing bacteria to populate in your filters instead of spreading it across the gravel as well. Basically, you want to force the bulk of your bacteria into your filters, where they will remain safe when you remove the gravel and replace with sand.

When you are ready, remove all your livestock place them in a bucket with an air stone and go to work on your tank.

[John_Nicholson]

LOL...some of the advice given is almost comical. IF you want to have success here is a tried and true method that has been used for longer than many in this thread have been alive....

First young discus are very hard to raise in any type of planted tank. If you want to be successful siphon out all of the gravel and go bare bottom until the fish are grown. I do not define success as merely keeping the fish alive. If you want to raise crappy little discus that any good breeder would cull that is your choice. Also if you go bare bottom either paint or tape paper to the bottom of the tank. Other wise your discus will try to swim though the bottom if spooked.

Second buy your discus from a good source. LFS are seldom the place to buy healthy discus.

Third you will need to do lots of WC to have the discus reach their potential. Depending on your source water you may need to age it first.

Forth 82 is a good temp for discus

Fifth they need a high quality protein rich diet. One of the secrets to raising nice fish is to over feed but yet keep good water quality though WC's

Once your fish are adults 6+ inches in length and/or 12 to 18 months old you can move them to a planted tank but be very careful to not overfeed as water quality is very important.

And last you are starting out just like most other have...that means all of this has been discussed to the point of nauseam. If you read though the beginners section you will see lots of information on this.

Good luck.

-john

[SMB2]

OK Misfit, now you've been John'ed.
Basically he is saying start over, IF you decide to go with discus. Some responders here were trying to be a little more gentle.
So I am going to continue my train of thought starting with your water. If your tap has 0 nitrates and your tank 30-40 ppm then there are some maintenance issues. That can come from to many fish, crap in the gravel and not enough WCs. If you are not able to deal routinely with these, don't get discus.
A ph swing from 7.6 to 7.0 in my opinion, is a lot for discus. (It would be nice to know what the ph is in the barrel after 24 hours aging, I bet it isn't 7.0) A lot of debate here about aging water, but for starters, it wont hurt.
IF you decide to continue with the discus plan, then you have to decide about what size to purchase. (There should be little debate about getting the best fish from a nearby sponsor.)
Cost and time are the biggest factors. Smaller fish cost less money but take a lot of time and effort to grow into reasonable display fish. Bigger fish get you to your final display faster but cost a lot more.
Smaller fish go with BB and keep a few of your BN and Cories. Read here about tank compatible fish. When the discus are big then consider substrate etc. As John points out, a grow out requires a substantial commitment if you want reasonable adult discus.
Bigger fish maybe your sand substrate with some nice wood and your clean up crew and forget the plants until you have the discus care down pat.
The odd man out is the remaining discus. What is it's status now? There are any number of ways to handle the logistics of the change but you have to know your end point.
Keep posting, but also read....

[John_Nicholson]

Thanks Stan...I am often misunderstood....LOL.

-john

[MSD]

Thanks Stan...I am often misunderstood....LOL.

-john

And under appreciated. Shake twice for Texas!!

[SMB2]

John, in this venue, I seriously doubt that you would ever need my help!
I promise I was trying to get to the BB solution, just working with what the OP started with.

[John_Nicholson]

Thanks guys and...I always need help...if you doubt that you can ask my wife....LOL.

-john