People with high PH/hard water please stand up! :)

[SaddlebredLady]

Ok, i've read and read on this site. what I'm taking from it is that it doesn't matter how high my PH is as long as it doesn't change? Who here can say they've actually grew out fish and kept them for YEARS (not just a year) on this super hard high PH water???

When I was a teen I had 2 55 gallon tanks I took care of with Angels. (I've had angels for a long time it seems). We would buy them from a LFS, they would grow up to be gorgeous and we would lose one here or there and go replace it. No issues with major tank wipeout or anything, just seemed like they didn't live longer than a year. Once I moved to city water I kept Angels for years. No issues. I moved back to well water with a high PH and IDK what killed them but it was a major tank wipeout from some illness, followed by new imported fish and another tank wipout.. This took me on line and I learned a lot about RO water, now I mix it.

I do NOT want to spend a couple hundred on Discus and have people say I can raise them on hard water if they will all end up dead due to PH stress. I WILL find a way to make this work because I want to. But the easiest route is obviously to use my well water. I guess I'm a bit doubtful as to whether or not I can grow out Discus and have them thrive at a high PH so those with experience, lets see your pics and input. Thanks so much!

[Second Hand Pat]

I wonder if your "PH stress" is caused from not aging the water (or perhaps you do). I am on well water and out of the well pH is 7.4. Once aged for 4 hours it goes to 8.2. Today I mix RO with the well water and age all my water for at least 12 hours but more likely 24 hours.

[Trier20]

I've had no problems from ph with my fish. My ph is higher than the API high ph test solution. The fish I've grown out grow closely to the inch a month. As long as its consistant you're good to go.

[fredyx]

I have no problems with my water ph stabilised is 7.6 Kh 10 Gh 20 conductivity around 650 ms and fish are as healthy as the one of my avatar :)

[Jeff O]

In my eyes, 7.6 is not hard. I have 8.0 out of the tap and 8.3 aged.
-Jeff

[fredyx]

hardness deals with Gh mainly and Kh, a water with a ph of 8 and a low kh and gh is soft. My water with a Gh of 20 is very hard acording to water supply standards:bandana:

[Skip]

Ph out of tap is 8.2 -8.4

Aged or 24 hrs later in tank.. 7.6-7.8

Last time I even bothered to check

[Bud Smith]

Close to Skip - 8.6 out of the tap
7.2 to 7.4 after 24 hours in age barrel
Heat aged water to 87 degrees tank water temp maintained 86 to 88
checked once a week

[pauline]

pH is the acid/alkalinity levels of the water. GH is the measurement of hardness. They are two totally different things. The GH is the calcium and magnesium content of the water. There is also the TDS (total dissolved solids) levels that includes all of the dissolved organics in the water which can also have an effect on the fish. However unless you plan on breeding your fish water stability and cleanliness is the key to keeping them healthy.

[Disgirl]

I'm standing up. I have raised all my discus, from about 2" juvies, to adulthood in our high ph high hardness water. So high I don't even bother measuring it. Dried water leaves lots of mineral deposits. I don't plan or want any discus spawns, they wouldn't hatch anyway, but the fish live and grow great in it. Frequent wc's, warm temps and excellent foods are what they need.
Barb

[SMB2]

Close to Skip - 8.6 out of the tap
7.2 to 7.4 after 24 hours in age barrel

Isn't it unusual for the PH to become more acidic with ageing?

And to paraphrase the experts here on SD 'don't chase the PH'. Use the water you've got, aged, and often.

[Skip]

And to paraphrase the experts here on SD 'don't chase the PH'. Use the water you've got, aged, and often.

no kidding.. don't know why so many threads lately.. people are STUCK on CHASING THE PH.. dang!! let it go..

consistency in water is what they should be after..

[SaddlebredLady]

Ok, So I might give this a go at my well's PH... It doesn't seem to change as it is also hard. I will still have to age it as I will need to heat it and anything that comes out of the water heater is softened so not suitable. :) Thanks for the input!!!!

What water do they need to breed? straight RO?

[Second Hand Pat]

Ok, So I might give this a go at my well's PH... It doesn't seem to change as it is also hard. I will still have to age it as I will need to heat it and anything that comes out of the water heater is softened so not suitable. :) Thanks for the input!!!!

What water do they need to breed? straight RO?

Have you aerated your water with aging testing pH before aging and after to see if there is a swing? Hardness or GH is separate from Ph :) Best to mix a little well water with the RO, aim for a TDS of 80 or so for breeding or remineralize the RO.

[SaddlebredLady]

Have you aerated your water with aging testing pH before aging and after to see if there is a swing? Hardness or GH is separate from Ph :) Best to mix a little well water with the RO, aim for a TDS of 80 or so for breeding or remineralize the RO.

yes I've tested before and after so I knew if the mix for current fish is stable. My understanding is the higher TDS the less like;y your PH is to swing... therefore hard water (high TDS) shouldnt change once aged

[Second Hand Pat]

Agreed if aged long enough but the point is your water is stable so now you know what you have to work with. Also you have a concern about the longevity of your fish in your well water? and now wish to add in some RO to help with that?

[SaddlebredLady]

Agreed if aged long enough but the point is your water is stable so now you know what you have to work with. Also you have a concern about the longevity of your fish in your well water? and now wish to add in some RO to help with that?

LOL, no. I currently mix RO water and well water for my 2 angel tanks (55g and 125g). I have a tiny RO unit that is in the crawlspace and puts out water at the kitchen sink so I buy walmart water mixed with well water (3 parts RO one part well) for WCs and use the house RO to top off tanks. This doesn't bother me and I've beed doing this for years, Angels are happy. However to keep this same system and change 20-40 gal. water every day would be very difficult just due to having to purchase water, I live 30 minutes from the walmart that sells water refills and I am self employed and have no need to go to town unless it is groceries and fish water.

So the benefits of being able to grow them out with well water are huge!! But I don't want to do it if they will grow up and then get sick due to stress, or grow up and not pair up, or have the females get blocked up, or some major issue. I'm sure if I decide to try to breed them I can slowly switch them over to lower PH and would be willing to do that, just the idea of a 50-90%WC a day for a year or so with even 50% of it being bought water is a bit excessive IMO.

I'm currently looking into those water hauler things that are square with a wire cage, as well as any way to buy tap water from my local town. I will see what I can come up with.

I have lost a lot of gorgeous angels when i was younger, I know what work it is to grow them out and get attached only to see one dead here and there... I don't want to see the same thing happen with Discus. If I could "start small and see if it would work" I would, but I've been reading you must have 6-8, so the smallest starter batch would be 6. At 35-45 bucks for a 3" fish thats $240 in dead fish if I'm not successful. So, while I'm willing to invest even a bitmore than that I don't want to throw it away either.

TIA,
April

ETA when I was younger there was never a clear reason why the angels died. It would be one at a time, often months apart, they never looked sick or stressed, we'd just find one dead here and there and after years of that plus books (no internet back then) we concluded it was the well water and that the angels just couldn't handle the ph and hardness). That said, this IS a different well in a different part of the state. I will be testing everything again to refresh my memories on the exact perameters, I might call Culligan as they have all the info about my well as well. I love these fish, so i'd like to find a way to have them, I just don't want to kill them with something that can be avoided. And I do want to at least try to raise a few spawn... Something about that is fun for me. I love my angels and LOVE it when they spawn, it just follows i will want that from the Discus. which is part of why I plan to buy from Mike. :)

[PP_GBR]

SBL:

I have a true pair angelfish and two females. They all, including the two female angels, take turn to lay eggs in my tank. My city water is very soft, 0 GH and 1-2 KH. I have to add some crushed coral in the tank to keep the pH @ 7 and to prevent pH crashes in my tank. I have no intention to breed them so I have to keep my eyes on them. I usually remove their eggs after to prevent them from eating their eggs and get sick later. I love angelfish too. After they pair up, they are inseparable and they protect their mates. Very facinating to watch them, the pairs always follow each other around the tank.

[BobDaniel]

I live in Hopkinsville, KY. My pH is around 8.0, my GH is 180 and my KH is 240. I have raised 5 fish from 2.5" to about the size of my hand in my 75 gal. It looks like 2 males and 3 females. I had bought 7 but lost two...one was a cull runt and never ate well. I lost the other to a fungus last year.

[vicdiscus]

I like Ph higher for my discus. I would not worry about PH crashed. Big benefit for the fry grow very fast and less work for water changes.

Right now my Tap water comes out 6.8 ph. I don't like lower ph than 7.0 ph.

[Keith Perkins]

Well, I've been back at this a little over 4 years. My aged tap has a pH of 8.0 and a TDS of oh say 380 or so. My growouts always go into this water, I'm growing out a batch of 8 now that are in the 4 inch range. I can't say I've ever had one in pure tap for all that long, just the way the water reservoirs work out they usually go to a mix with a 7.6 and 300. But only because it was more convenient because of my water needs then. I had two big tanks going that needed tap so I mixed in a little RO to be able to do bigger WCs. But I wouldn't hesitate to keep them in that kind of water. I just find a softer place for them when they pair up. :love:

[DiscusAB]

Last time I check my
ph out of tap is 7.5-8.0
age for 24hr is 6.5 - 6.0

I think I need to re-Test

[SMB2]

ph out of tap is 7.5-8.0
age for 24hr is 6.5 - 6.0

Somebody help me with this. I thought aging allowed for off gassing of trapped CO2, so one would expect a rise in PH.

Is it possible that some tap water is super saturated with O2?
Just not sure why the PH would become more acidic with aging.

[matt56]

If you go to my growout log, you can see my group progress. My ph is 7.8 out of tap, 8.5 aged. I haven't bothered checking the gh but i can tell you my water is so hard that even a plumber from out of town has said its the hardest hes ever seen. I have to clean the inside of my aging barrel once a week because of the amount of mineral build up. I also have to scrape off the heater. Ill post some before and after pics if you don't want to bother looking at the log.

When i first go them, they weren't even half the size of the sponge:
http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy260/mattster56/DSC01697_zps3a34fd85.jpg

Now about 4 months later one of the smaller ones is as large as the sponge:
http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy260/mattster56/DSC01866_zpsb7fe4df1.jpg

And the largest one in his corner:
http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy260/mattster56/DSC01865_zps395b06c7.jpg

Now i know you were looking for people who have kept them long term in high ph water, but i figured i would post my progress and hopefully convince you that its okay.