The internet expert

[John_Nicholson]

This was written by a very good friend of mine I think it would be a good thing fro everyone to read.

-john




We all know them. We have all witnessed their wisdom under the guise of expertise gained by “many years” of experience, protected by the anonymity of the Internet; the product of modern day forums and chat rooms, the self made expert, master of all knowledge! The Internet expert!

Just check around any forums and communities you belong to and within minutes you will be able to identify a few. Without thinking too hard, I am sure all of you have two or three names in mind already!
It’s that member that hasn’t been around much yet has already racked up ten thousand posts! That member whose expertise ranges to all things but is backed up by no real data, or long term experience. It’s the self entitled protector and keeper of wisdom that will not hesitate to spew out bits and bytes of information based on things they have read on other forums and magazines and now claim as their own intellectual property. You all know what I am talking about.

It used to be that one would spend years in a field, or hobby gaining expertise via experience and by exchanging information with fellow enthusiasts. We all had our mentors, people we looked up to, the ones that held the keys to all mysteries related to our hobby. We attended many meetings, and traveled to far places just to interact with such people.
Knowledge used to be a valued commodity that was passed between friends and colleagues, between people that shared mutual respect for one another. Now all one has to do is open the computer browser and go to a favorite website to automatically become an expert on any subject.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not a purist and have nothing against the Internet, forums, or communities. I am a member of several! I think our hobby has benefited immensely from this quick means of communication where all forms of new ideas can be shared quickly, and friends are able to help friends all over the world.

Internet based communities have made better quality suppliers available to all of us, and along with modern shipping methods, have allowed us to receive and care for livestock that we would otherwise never have access to. However as with all great advances in our society, there are some side effects; the Internet expert is just one of them.

I have been around aquariums all my life. I had my first tank at age 14 back in my home in Brazil. I made a lot of mistakes and like most of us, have learned a lot by unfortunately sacrificing the lives of many fish! What all of that trial and error did was expose me to all the ins and outs of a hobby that became part of my life. I have met people through the years that became good friends and have allowed my love for aquariums to evolve into a life of diving, traveling, and even importing fish for resale.

With a life’s worth of knowledge, you might think that I would be more than comfortable sharing my experience in forums and offering help to fellow hobbyists so they don’t have to make the same mistakes I did. Well, I am not.
The Internet has made it almost impossible to distinguish between someone that actually has some knowledge and experience, and some young kid in his room somewhere that is overly active, with a lot of free time in his hands and that has no problem spewing “advice” to other people that come to forums looking for real help!

With the availability of incredible stock and new advanced technologies, old taboos like Discus breeding has become less and less of a mystery, so the lines can become a bit blurred. There is a huge difference between buying a mated, proven pair of Discus and have them successfully breed in you home aquarium and understanding what a successful, long term breeding program demands! Having a breeding pair purchased from an importer, does not confer instant expert status!

So what do we do? How do we tell the real experienced people from the “Internet Expert”? With some care and patience, we can usually figure them out, here are some tips.

The Internet Experts usually have been members of the forums for a short period of time and have extremely high number of posts; they post in every thread offering advice and usually quote other famous people’s wisdom as their own. Usually they don’t last long in a specific community since people get fed up with them, this typically leads to huge on-line battles where one or more parties get banned, and threads get locked!

The Internet Expert is also very opinionated about all things, not only hobby related. They have an opinion on all things in existence…ever! Loaded with the highest skill level in internet research ability and a lot of free time on their hands, these experts will not hesitate to get into a discussion about breeding fish, even if they have never done so, with the same ease as they might enter a political debate about the South Carolina primaries or space travel!

The problem with this modern day walking and breathing Encyclopedia Britannica is not just that they have no problem sharing all of this “information” with the world. The problem is that they don’t have the ability to differentiate between real, useful information and theories or outdated information still freely available on-line. They will read something and repeat it as absolute truth. Not only truth, but their truth, tried and tested.

So here is the heart of our problem. A new person to the hobby joins a forum and asks for help with some sick fish. They will be bombarded with input, from all sources knowledgeable and not so knowledgeable and a spirited debate will start. This often leads into an argument, deletion of posts, banning of members and the poor soul that asked for help is left wondering what to do, leaves this aggressive community, loses the fish, and a lot of times loses interest in the hobby altogether.

Back in the day of actual fish clubs and face to face meetings, people would behave in a more civil manner since they didn’t have the anonymity of the internet to protect them. Sure information was harder to come by and one almost always had to belong to a group for a while in order to be considered a true and informed participant. Now anyone can claim expert status. All they need is an Internet connection and a lot of free time! So how do we go about dealing with some of these issues? How can we offer advice to new forumnites that join our communities?

Al Sabetta, owner of “SimplyDiscus.com”, a long standing forum dedicated to all things Discus has this to offer:

" When a new member comes on a forum looking for advice the first thing they should do is read, not write. Take a few moments to look over the forum. If there’s a beginner’s board on the forum, start there. They may find the answer without even asking. With databases and search engines being what they are the next thing they should do is use the search function. Obviously, just jumping in and posting a question seems like it would give you the best answer but that’s not necessarily true. Sometimes spending time searching years of data will give you much more info than asking in the present time and being answered by whoever is on line.
Also veteran members get irritated when someone asks a question that has been asked a bazillion times. The next obvious step is to verify your info...just because its written doesn’t make it true. If you are considering advice from someone, do yourself a favor, read their back posts in the forum, see how they interact with others, see how other respond to their posts. Look at how long they have been in the Hobby. And by all means....Google it!”!

Having been around the world of on-line communities myself since the very early days I have seen a major change in members. Gone are the long term contributors that really do have expert advice to offer or, if they are still around they often contribute in the background, via personal messages and bow out of controversial threads quickly. I personally choose to spend most of my on-line time appreciating the group as a community, making friends, and enjoying other people’s fish and tanks.

This new crop of Internet Experts can be very dangerous. They can convince you very quickly of how knowledgeable they are and by the time you realize what a mess has been created by mere lack of real knowledge, your fish are dead! Please keep an eye out for them!

Join a community, not as an emergency place where you go to only for help or you can buy the cheapest or best fish. Get to know people; make friends; learn about your hobby and enjoy. This way you will know quickly who to trust and will make the best of what the modern day Internet has to offer!

I also strongly believe that local clubs, which hold regular meetings and where you can still, meet and learn from great, like-minded people, are the most valuable resource you can have to help you be successful in any hobby, and enjoy it for many years! There are incredible amounts of Clubs out there, go join one!

I’ll leave you all with this. Anyone can buy a lot of fish; anyone can read a lot and have some very good short term success. All you need is a credit card, free time, and a good Internet connection. Very few will stick with something through the hard times, when problems happen or when times get tough. Find yourself some of those people and get to know them, this, my friends, is what mentoring and a hobby should be all about.

[chaoslite]

Very true. And several names come to mind.

Mishka

[Chad Hughes]

John,

And here I thought everything on the internet was TRUE! :D

The internet expert. I like it.

Care to share who this Brazilian author is?

[DLock3d]

Good post John.

[yim11]

Words of wisdom indeed.

[DLock3d]

John,

And here I thought everything on the internet was TRUE! :D

The internet expert. I like it.

Care to share who this Brazilian author is?

Good to see you around again Chad.

[Cambik]

Good read and thanks for posting this.

[shawnhu]

John, I know the feeling. Quite a bit of the self proclaimed experts around lately, that and the SD police. Matter of fact, you might know some of them.

BTW folks, being an old fart don't grant you expert status. And even if you happen to be an expert, don't mean said expert can treat others with disrespect and taint these forums. Some food for thought. Oh, not referring to you of course. :)

[Chad Hughes]

Thanks Dan!

Good to be back.


Good to see you around again Chad.

[Trier20]

This was a great read John! Thank you for sharing this with us!

[Poco]

Thanks for sharing John. It is so true.

[ROOK45]

Goes both way though, I have read several sarcastic post made by members like "that guy only has x amount of post, I'm sure you know". Everyone must remember a post count low or high does not reflect on ones knowledge or lack there of.
Regardless great post.

Jon

[Wes]

I Remember reading this it seems like a couple years ago. It still holds true today.

[MaiaDee]

If new members shouldn't ask questions that have been asked and answered, or if the advice they get becomes the subject of a debate, how exactly is they are supposed to make friends with other like minded people here? It's very clique-y, seems to me anyway. I feel very lonely when I read this forum sometimes. My fish aren't sick, not breeding. Nothing outstanding, nothing wrong. Fascinating for conversation, eh? I'd like to connect with more fish people, but perhaps this is just the wrong venue to do it in.

[shawnhu]

If new members shouldn't ask questions that have been asked and answered, or if the advice they get becomes the subject of a debate, how exactly is they are supposed to make friends with other like minded people here? It's very clique-y, seems to me anyway. I feel very lonely when I read this forum sometimes. My fish aren't sick, not breeding. Nothing outstanding, nothing wrong. Fascinating for conversation, eh? I'd like to connect with more fish people, but perhaps this is just the wrong venue to do it in.

MaiaDee, despite the efforts by some to isolate and degrade others, there are still some left that genuinely promote healthy debate and make life long friends here on Simply. I'm sorry that you feel this way, it wasn't always like this here. This place was great when I joined and I met a lot of great people through this forum. Never be afraid to ask questions or challenge something you feel is not right, no matter how many so called experts tell you otherwise.

[Bill63SG]

Sometimes it can be frustrating to see the same questioned asked that was asked last week,and will be asked next week.But this website is like an animal,and it need to fed "questions".If everybody did thier researsh,and just dug in and looked up thier info,the animal would die,and we'd be hearing crickets chirping.There's also something to be said for trying to do a little research,and if you cant find it,post your question.
Great read John.Appreciate it more now then when I first read it.

[MaiaDee]

Sometimes it can be frustrating to see the same questioned asked that was asked last week,and will be asked next week.But this website is like an animal,and it need to fed "questions".If everybody did thier researsh,and just dug in and looked up thier info,the animal would die,and we'd be hearing crickets chirping.There's also something to be said for trying to do a little research,and if you cant find it,post your question.

Absolutely agree, Bill. That's exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for being much more concise and much less whiny than I was :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Guys, if everyone looks at their past threads I would say most people ask the same questions. I looked back at my posted threads and found I asked the same "stupid" questions most newbies ask. Guess I did not use the search function quite often enough. :bandana:

Good read John, makes one think.

[ROOK45]

Also why must we be segregated? We all share a common interest. When the words "expert" and "newbie" get thrown around that's what happens.
With the anonymity of the internet I don't feel any of us should be deemed "an expert" just hobbyist helping other hobbyist. Lets learn from each other and put egos aside.

[troysdiiscus]

As a new member and absolutely in LOVE with the hobby, I guess you know you are when you are sitting around at night in the bed looking at a dark tank just to be sure you see dark shadows swimming about and you are constantly up looking at temp cause you put in a new jagar heater. Thats me..I met alot of extremely nice experienced people on here and bought some great quality fish and food from them and I feel secure knowing they are on the sidelines like a coach to help if I cant find the answer or to confirm what I read is the right direction, cause I would rather get confirmation from experienced people, not always what I read on the internet. I dont troll through like I see others do I do alot of reading and add something if I know what I am talking about based on experience that I have had. I am thankful for this forum and the insight it gives and John, I never met you but I would love to hang with you to gain a third on your knowledge, same for alot of the people on here. What you posted is the gospel and what to shout out HALLLAUH... Thanks for the forum and people who are as dedicated with this hobby as I am..... I hope the people like yourself John and many many others that have the experienced stay on to guide people that want to be successful and grow great healthy discus like me. Yall are the reason why I got into Discus, I have had many other fish but not compared to the discus. So hats off to you the experienced elders in the field to pass on your knowledge and wisdom and to the INTERNET EXPERTS, take a seat and learn before spoken.....

[Bill63SG]

Also why must we be segregated? We all share a common interest. When the words "expert" and "newbie" get thrown around that's what happens.
With the anonymity of the internet I don't feel any of us should be deemed "an expert" just hobbyist helping other hobbyist. Lets learn from each other and put egos aside.

I beg to differ a little on that.Its like what John posted.You can be book smart,or you can have actual experience.Sharing a common interest is like we go to the grocery store because we are hungry,the common interest,but I need "lables",expert,newbie,to help me pick out what I want to buy.

[ROOK45]

I beg to differ a little on that.Its like what John posted.You can be book smart,or you can have actual experience.Sharing a common interest is like we go to the grocery store because we are hungry,the common interest,but I need "lables",expert,newbie,to help me pick out what I want to buy.

LOL I understand what your saying kind of like the no frills aisle. That's all good with tangible items but on the Internet you never know who your talking with.

[shawnhu]

Pat, I think a lot of folks fall under that category. But what I find disturbing is that these Internet experts make a scene when someone that needs help asks for it, yet they at one point or another also needed help.

Here's the trend I notice.

New to hobby - needs and asks for help

Relatively new to hobby - sits back and learns

Relatively old to hobby - tries to help when they can

Old veterans - seen it all and grow tired

[Second Hand Pat]

Shawn, we all need help from time to time...expert, newbie, somewhere in between. Damn fish know how to throw a curse ball sometimes. Problem is some people talk too much and do not listen.

[MSD]

One question, do you really have to do water changes so frequently??

[John_Nicholson]

Thr trouble is when idiots run around posting answers that they really don't know the answers to. Most idiots will post enough that the law of averages mean they wil be right at least a little bit. The trouble is the harm they are doing in all of the cases where they are wrong. I like questions that are thoughtful. I like it when newbees sit back and think about stuff before they post. I have spent a hell of a long time teaching people how to be successful. An example of this was the first NADA show. I was not a lone ranger in the deal but I was the driving force to have the show. We had no clue if it would work or if anyone would attend. 3 of us ( Jerry, Jim, and myself ) had to agree that is the show bombed we would pay the bills out of our own pockets. I have spent hours on the phone with people trying to solve their problems. I have invested a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into teaching people the best way to have success and quite frankly it pisses we off when idiots who need their fragile egos stroked come n here on F that up. I am not telling anyone that they have to do it my way. I have no problem with people doing experiments....no matter how stupid they are.....please by all means do so but don't stunt fish to have their size and then run around like you have done something great...All you have done is to F up some fish.

-john

[John_Nicholson]

One question, do you really have to do water changes so frequently??


LOL.

-john

[Larry Bugg]

Thanks for re-posting this John. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. The point of this post is not to say you shouldn't ask questions when you are new or the problem is new to you. The point is that way too often people that have no real experience or knowledge on the subject post answers and solutions. Even what seems like a very simple topic....changing water. We read about changing this much or this often but we fail to realize that there are many variables that went into the correct decision of how much and how often. What is the bio load, what is being fed, how often. What age are the fish. Then when a water question comes up the inexperienced but well read poster spouts out the answer without understanding all the variables. It happens over and over again with all topics. AND most of the topics have the possibility to harm or kill the fish.

[Mugwump]

Good article, John....and you're right, it holds true on most every forum.....

[Bill63SG]

LOL I understand what your saying kind of like the no frills aisle. That's all good with tangible items but on the Internet you never know who your talking with.

True,true.I just went and checked,and I've been a member here just over 2yrs.In that time you can get a feel for people and thier advise and try it and see what works.Not drink the kool-aide on the first person to help you.I also realized that alot of my early help was from the breeder I bought my discus from.But I did meet him thru the internet,lol.

[barkmanusd]

I agree with almost everything in the article...but there's a slight rub... An experienced hobbyist is critical of other (self proclaimed) experienced hobbyist. He suggests they can be identified by their input on newbie problems, their # of posts and willingness to quote others...... Isn't that exactly what the writer of this article is doing? I'm not saying he isn't correct - just highlighting the needs for tolerance of differing opinions. The onus is on the reader to try and decipher. The problem comes when we want a quick easy 1-stop place for quick advice. It doesn't exist.
The reality is there may be multiple answers, folks may have valid but differing experiences. If you don't believe me and my almost 20 year s experience let me quote an expert " ..........uh wait never mind! :o)

[ROOK45]

Good post barkmanusd....individual results may and usually do vary.

[roclement]

I agree with almost everything in the article...but there's a slight rub... An experienced hobbyist is critical of other (self proclaimed) experienced hobbyist. He suggests they can be identified by their input on newbie problems, their # of posts and willingness to quote others...... Isn't that exactly what the writer of this article is doing? I'm not saying he isn't correct - just highlighting the needs for tolerance of differing opinions. The onus is on the reader to try and decipher. The problem comes when we want a quick easy 1-stop place for quick advice. It doesn't exist.
The reality is there may be multiple answers, folks may have valid but differing experiences. If you don't believe me and my almost 20 year s experience let me quote an expert " ..........uh wait never mind! :o)

You my friend understood the article! This has to be a 2 way street for it to work.

Rodrigo

[ROOK45]

You my friend understood the article! This has to be a 2 way street for it to work.

Rodrigo

+1
I'm loving the discussion this thread is turning into

[AngryBird]

Should be a sticky thread (minus some reply post;))

[Skip]

Sorry john.

Anything more than 140 characters. . I lose interest

[John_Nicholson]

Skip you and your damned ADD.

-john

[PAR23]

In the short time I've been a member here, I've met and become great friends with many I met through SD. During this peroid, I've also learned whom to turn to for help when my fish and I need it the most. I've seen people come and go, some to never be heard from again. I use to wonder why so many of the seasoned members would not offer their input or advice on heated subjects but I think I finally figured out their reasoning. This write up validates my suspicion.

Thanks for pointing out the 500lb gorilla in the room John.

[rcomeau]

I didn't read all of that. What is the point?

The amount of poor novice advice and non-value added debates is very low here to the point of being very easy to tolerate. Almost all of the threads could benefit from better attempts to give advice. I hope that this thread doesn't discourage such attempts.

My first intro to keeping discus was when I stuck my hand up at an auction because they looked cool. They lived for many months but certainly not to their full potential. I returned here to prepare for my second attempt. So far so good. Ironically, one of my first research efforts was to gain an appreciation of who is currently thriving in the discus business. I had to sort through many dead links. Out of business. Those "experts" apparently failed at discus and/or running a business. Maybe they should have used the internet to learn more before trying. Maybe they were afraid to post dumb questions.

This hobby is just that, a hobby. Experts don't have a degree, they aren't certified, no license, not enough value to charge for advice beyond selling books. Perhaps they need recognition by pointing out that they are experts based on long-term experience and don't want that to be undermined by the idea that people can learn from the experience of others with help from the internet. Perhaps they need to be appreciated so I give you my appreciation... I'm interested in protecting my investment in discus which are relatively expensive and challenging fish. I certainly appreciate the advice that is available to read and solicit from experts here for free. Please pass that appreciation from me, through the internet, to our friend.

[John_Nicholson]

"The amount of poor novice advice and non-value added debates is very low here ". I value your opinion but I disagree with it. There is a lot of poor advise being given currently.

-john

[shawnhu]

I didn't read all of that. What is the point?

The amount of poor novice advice and non-value added debates is very low here to the point of being very easy to tolerate. Almost all of the threads could benefit from better attempts to give advice. I hope that this thread doesn't discourage such attempts.

My first intro to keeping discus was when I stuck my hand up at an auction because they looked cool. They lived for many months but certainly not to their full potential. I returned here to prepare for my second attempt. So far so good. Ironically, one of my first research efforts was to gain an appreciation of who is currently thriving in the discus business. I had to sort through many dead links. Out of business. Those "experts" apparently failed at discus and/or running a business. Maybe they should have used the internet to learn more before trying. Maybe they were afraid to post dumb questions.

This hobby is just that, a hobby. Experts don't have a degree, they aren't certified, no license, not enough value to charge for advice beyond selling books. Perhaps they need recognition by pointing out that they are experts based on long-term experience and don't want that to be undermined by the idea that people can learn from the experience of others with help from the internet. Perhaps they need to be appreciated so I give you my appreciation... I'm interested in protecting my investment in discus which are relatively expensive and challenging fish. I certainly appreciate the advice that is available to read and solicit from experts here for free. Please pass that appreciation from me, through the internet, to our friend.

Bravo. What is the point? I don't see any of the so called experts extremely eager and energetic to give advice aside from bashing the Internet experts.

I think that's the point.

[Kal-El]

How is one determine an expert? Cert, degree, experience, or voted by the forum? So far with the short time i have been a member of this forum I see the ones I think are the expert help out here and there when they can... When newbie like me come on we are looking for help and those that seem to be actively helping us are the so call internet expert. As we learn from our mistake and gain experience we learn who is giving the correct advice and who is not. Maybe the way to do this is have the "Expert" tag above of the expert's avatar like how it shows for sponsor and the many other titles we have in this forum. This way the newbies know the advice they are getting is from an expert. (Expert can be someone nominated by the forum and approve by everyone in order to get the Expert title). Anyone without the expert tag should not be advising in the disease section to avoid confusion and bad advice. Just my two cent.

[Skip]

How is one determine an expert? Cert, degree, experience, or voted by the forum? So far with the short time i have been a member of this forum I see the ones I think are the expert help out here and there when they can... When newbie like me come on we are looking for help and those that seem to be actively helping us are the so call internet expert. As we learn from our mistake and gain experience we learn who is giving the correct advice and who is not. Maybe the way to do this is have the "Expert" tag above of the expert's avatar like how it shows for sponsor and the many other titles we have in this forum. This way the newbies know the advice they are getting is from an expert. (Expert can be someone nominated by the forum and approve by everyone in order to get the Expert title). Anyone without the expert tag should not be advising in the disease section to avoid confusion and bad advice. Just my two cent.

I only trust Eddie. .

[shawnhu]

How is one determine an expert? Cert, degree, experience, or voted by the forum? So far with the short time i have been a member of this forum I see the ones I think are the expert help out here and there when they can... When newbie like me come on we are looking for help and those that seem to be actively helping us are the so call internet expert. As we learn from our mistake and gain experience we learn who is giving the correct advice and who is not. Maybe the way to do this is have the "Expert" tag above of the expert's avatar like how it shows for sponsor and the many other titles we have in this forum. This way the newbies know the advice they are getting is from an expert. (Expert can be someone nominated by the forum and approve by everyone in order to get the Expert title). Anyone without the expert tag should not be advising in the disease section to avoid confusion and bad advice. Just my two cent.

You're an expert for coming up with this great idea.

[shawnhu]

I only trust Eddie. .

Eddie is the best.

[Skip]

Eddie is the best.

Not Nicholson has one fish get sick..

He culls the whole tank he dogs love those buffet days

[Kal-El]

I only trust Eddie. .

Eddie is definitely one of the few i would vote to get the "SimplyDiscus Expert" title and the one I always listen too if he is giving me an advice...

[roclement]

How is one determine an expert? Cert, degree, experience, or voted by the forum? So far with the short time i have been a member of this forum I see the ones I think are the expert help out here and there when they can... When newbie like me come on we are looking for help and those that seem to be actively helping us are the so call internet expert. As we learn from our mistake and gain experience we learn who is giving the correct advice and who is not. Maybe the way to do this is have the "Expert" tag above of the expert's avatar like how it shows for sponsor and the many other titles we have in this forum. This way the newbies know the advice they are getting is from an expert. (Expert can be someone nominated by the forum and approve by everyone in order to get the Expert title). Anyone without the expert tag should not be advising in the disease section to avoid confusion and bad advice. Just my two cent.

This is a great idea! I can see where it will be tough for the team here to find enough qualified people to post and help people but, it may be worth a shot! It may even bring more good people back to the forum, and in the long run, prevent a lot of good fish from dying due to less than ideal, even if well intentioned, advice.

Rodrigo

[shawnhu]

This is a great idea! I can see where it will be tough for the team here to find enough qualified people to post and help people but, it may be worth a shot! It may even bring more good people back to the forum, and in the long run, prevent a lot of good fish from dying due to less than ideal, even if well intentioned, advice.

Rodrigo

Well said Rod.

[joeandmeagan]

But if everyone actually starts following the advice of the true experts here than us newbies won't keep killing enough fish to keep Kenny and Hans and all of our other great sponsor's in business! Lol

[shawnhu]

Eddie is definitely one of the few i would vote to get the "SimplyDiscus Expert" title and the one I always listen too if he is giving me an advice...

I basically shut up when it comes to Eddie's advice. Not only is his advice spot on, he has a way of telling you than makes you feel like you're still a human being.

[nc0gnet0]

This is a great idea! I can see where it will be tough for the team here to find enough qualified people to post and help people but, it may be worth a shot! It may even bring more good people back to the forum, and in the long run, prevent a lot of good fish from dying due to less than ideal, even if well intentioned, advice

Seems as if I have heard something along these lines suggested elsewhere....... ?

The disease forum should be run like the university section is with a few tweaks to insure quicker response time.

[shawnhu]

But if everyone actually starts following the advice of the true experts here than us newbies won't keep killing enough fish to keep Kenny and Hans and all of our other great sponsor's in business! Lol

That is quite the conflict of interest right there. I'm sure they will evolve and supply even better breeds and raise the bar like they always have.

[Bill63SG]

This is a great idea! I can see where it will be tough for the team here to find enough qualified people to post and help people but, it may be worth a shot! It may even bring more good people back to the forum, and in the long run, prevent a lot of good fish from dying due to less than ideal, even if well intentioned, advice.

Rodrigo

There is something here.Either some sort of certification,who provides it,I havent the slightest idea right now,or some type of sub-forum.Get the advice,and deal with it.If you dont like it,argue it some place else,not on that thread.

[roclement]

Seems as if I have heard something along these lines suggested elsewhere....... ?

The disease forum should be run like the university section is with a few tweaks to insure quicker response time.

I wonder where Rick? :) It's a valid propoasal that may warrant investigating.

Rodrgo

[John_Nicholson]

Not Nicholson has one fish get sick..

He culls the whole tank he dogs love those buffet days


LOL....For anyone unaware Skip is a close friend and just busting my chops.....We are in the same local club that is puting on the 2014 NADA show.


While the idea of qualifications is cool, it is pretty hard to do in the real world. Lots ot times the information provided is so poor and often incorrect that most of the experienced people chose not to answer because it is not anymore that a guessing game at that point. I consider Eddie a good friend and what makes him the man is when he sees the same question asked for the 100th time he still answers it. The rest of us get tired of it. I have seen the same question asked and answered 2 of 3 times on the first page and someone will come in and ask it again. Many of us are of the opinion if the person is to lazy to at least look at the first page for answers why should we be required to answer the question yet again. Eddie ...well he is a better man than me he just answers it again.

-john

[lipadj46]

I only trust Eddie. .

I only trust Discus Murderer...

[lipadj46]

The disease forum should be run like the university section is with a few tweaks to insure quicker response time.

Because the university section is so successful LOL! It only takes reading a few threads to know you should not post unless you have a spectacular fish, otherwise its a one way ticket to disappointment town. But I suppose I would know better to ask for my "pet quality" bearded collie to be judged by a westminster judge (even though she was $1200 and came from "show" parents). Back on topic I have only been around for a couple years but back when I started there were more opinionated veterans on the board but they seemed to be run off when the forum started to grow. Eddie came back strong but is gone again, Liz does not post much anymore less she get's banned, Turq does not post much either. The disease section used to have a good representation of experts but now most seem to just sit back and watch and that leaves things open for others to pipe up. When forums grow these things happen, it happened at monsterfishkeepers and other fish forums too. The way I see it the more people in the hobby the better. Most smart people will catch on to the "personality" and "cliques" of this forum. You don't need to be part of the in crowd to reap the benefits of the huge amounts of data contained in this forum.

Also to keep things in perspective if you look way back at some of the "expert's" early posts you will see that they started off as stubborn wide eyed babes in the woods and killed many a discus on the road to the success.

[shawnhu]

Because the university section is so successful LOL! It only takes reading a few threads to know you should not post unless you have a spectacular fish, otherwise its a one way ticket to disappointment town. But I suppose I would know better to ask for my "pet quality" bearded collie to be judged by a westminster judge (even though she was $1200 and came from "show" parents). Back on topic I have only been around for a couple years but back when I started there were more opinionated veterans on the board but they seemed to be run off when the forum started to grow. Eddie came back strong but is gone again, Liz does not post much anymore less she get's banned, Turq does not post much either. The disease section used to have a good representation of experts but now most seem to just sit back and watch and that leaves things open for others to pipe up. When forums grow these things happen, it happened at monsterfishkeepers and other fish forums too. The way I see it the more people in the hobby the better. Most smart people will catch on to the "personality" and "cliques" of this forum. You don't need to be part of the in crowd to reap the benefits of the huge amounts of data contained in this forum.

Also to keep things in perspective if you look way back at some of the "expert's" early posts you will see that they started off as stubborn wide eyed babes in the woods and killed many a discus on the road to the success.

Great post. I miss the good ol' days myself. People didn't seem as cliquey and bitter like they seem to be now. Or maybe I was just ignorant and naive to it all.

[Bill63SG]

I have seen the same question asked and answered 2 of 3 times on the first page and someone will come in and ask it again. Many of us are of the opinion if the person is to lazy to at least look at the first page for answers why should we be required to answer the question yet again.

-john

This is what I was trying to get across.Asking the questions are fine,but when already answered in the thread you are posting on can frustrate people.Or when the question is answered,and the op dosent like the advice,and keeps asking again and again.People stop helping when they keep hitting against a wall.

[troysdiiscus]

What is EXPERIENCED people that give helpful information. It means that those are the ones that went through the pitfalls and bumps in the road and experienced failures which resulted in succussful solutions moving forward and have raised great discus. When you become a doctor you put in the time and long hours of schooling and hundreds of hours of residency, you dont jump in it after 6 months to start giving diagnoses. When you need specific help, you go t a specialist if that field, thats what I need is that specialist that has been there and done that and treated and repaired first hand with years of experience. We all newbies need that knowledge so we can learn and pass this information on to other newbies

[SMB2]

John, you don't suffer fools lightly, and every good forum needs someone with your experience and personality, so don't apologize. If I post something you think is FOS, I expect to hear from you.
Those who can't tell the difference between BS and sound advice either from discussions here, or reading, will most likely end up with dead Discus.
But technology and young enthusiasts will over time change the state of the art in Discus keeping, so everybody regardless of experience level should keep an open mind.

[Larry Bugg]

This is what I was trying to get across.Asking the questions are fine,but when already answered in the thread you are posting on can frustrate people.Or when the question is answered,and the op dosent like the advice,and keeps asking again and again.People stop helping when they keep hitting against a wall.

Now you are hitting on one of the reason a lot of the experienced are no longer posting. They aren't listened to and when they vocalize their frustration about not being listened to they get jumped on and chastised for not being "flexible" or "open to new ideas". Well guess what. Most of these new ideas aren't new. They have been there and done that. So why get beat up. It is easier to just not post. Don't think they aren't being helpful to other discus keepers though. They are doing it elsewhere or privately. I can tell you that from experience. Then along comes the internet expert and they are loud and vocal and they get listened to...........go figure. They quite often don't have the right answer or the full answer but often it is what the op wants to hear. Then along comes the internet experts supporters (how they come about I just don't know) and the experienced poster is hit from all directions.

I'll have to add that there have been some recent post where I have been more frustrated and mad with the supporters than I was with the internet expert. The inexperienced choose to follow the inexperienced and give even more voice to their ideas and thoughts.

[Skip]

Ahem Larry

[troysdiiscus]

Your right Larry, I have headed up many focus groups outside the discus hobby and if I knew there was a group called ask the experts, I would feel very confident that I am getting best practice to resolving my issue. I know the board and sponors and forum members know who they are and they could discuss amoungst a group of experts to head off the issue. That would be a perfect world.
Now you are hitting on one of the reason a lot of the experienced are no longer posting. They aren't listened to and when they vocalize their frustration about not being listened to they get jumped on and chastised for not being "flexible" or "open to new ideas". Well guess what. Most of these new ideas aren't new. They have been there and done that. So why get beat up. It is easier to just not post. Don't think they aren't being helpful to other discus keepers though. They are doing it elsewhere or privately. I can tell you that from experience. Then along comes the internet expert and they are loud and vocal and they get listened to...........go figure. They quite often don't have the right answer or the full answer but often it is what the op wants to hear. Then along comes the internet experts supporters (how they come about I just don't know) and the experienced poster is hit from all directions.

I'll have to add that there have been some recent post where I have been more frustrated and mad with the supporters than I was with the internet expert. The inexperienced choose to follow the inexperienced and give even more voice to their ideas and thoughts.

[lipadj46]

One thing I liked about this forum when I joined is that when someone was wrong they were called out on it and it was not sugar coated. It kept people in line and kept the inexperienced and newbies from muddying up the water. I got my share of hazing in the beginning and it was good for me. Hopefully we can go back that direction where constructive criticism is welcomed it will require many to put on their big boy pants and learn to take their licks without whining like a babe.

[Skip]

Ahem Lipadj

we all took our licks at start... LOL

[Larry Bugg]

Your right Larry, I have headed up many focus groups outside the discus hobby and if I knew there was a group called ask the experts, I would feel very confident that I am getting best practice to resolving my issue. I know the board and sponors and forum members know who they are and they could discuss amoungst a group of experts to head off the issue. That would be a perfect world.

I can tell you pretty quick what I think is one of the biggest obstacles to this idea and as Rick pointed out it isn't a new one. If Al and Company aka SimplyDiscus.com labeled some of the users here as "expert" or something along those lines then they are taking on a liability. A huge one as I see it. So they have someone they have noted as expert and something goes wrong. It may or may not be directly due to the advice given by the expert but bottom line SimplyDiscus becomes liable. I don't see them wanting to take on that liability and I don't blame them.


One thing I liked about this forum when I joined is that when someone was wrong they were called out on it and it was not sugar coated. It kept people in line and kept the inexperienced and newbies from muddying up the water. I got my share of hazing in the beginning and it was good for me. Hopefully we can go back that direction where constructive criticism is welcomed it will require many to put on their big boy pants and learn to take their licks without whining like a babe.

Part of the problem with this is that this kind of situation always seems to escalate and then both the inexperienced and the experienced get rebuked for insighting a riot.

[lipadj46]

Ahem Lipadj

we all took our licks at start... LOL

Yep I recall Liz mauled me quite good with my Joe gargas juvies LOL! I went from proud new fish owner to ashamed and bought stendkers the next week and killed 75% of them along the way.

You got it quite hard as I recall

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

[Skip]

Yep I recall Liz mauled me quite good with my Joe gargas juvies LOL! I went from proud new fish owner to ashamed and bought stendkers the next week and killed 75% of them along the way.

You got it quite hard as I recall
sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

because i thought i knew better.. cuz i had other fish in my past..

i was wrong.. and my fish paid for it

[Poco]

One thing I liked about this forum when I joined is that when someone was wrong they were called out on it and it was not sugar coated. It kept people in line and kept the inexperienced and newbies from muddying up the water. I got my share of hazing in the beginning and it was good for me. Hopefully we can go back that direction where constructive criticism is welcomed it will require many to put on their big boy pants and learn to take their licks without whining like a babe.

The reason I think it has changed is that these so called "internet experts" dont show respect to the real experts when given advise. The experts are not here to take cr@p, no one should but you see it happen almost every single day even in this thread.

These internet expert are infact just keyboard warriors and nothing more. What are their motives, only they will know, but it could be being popular and to bring as much attention to themselves as possible. The easiest way to achieve it is to challenge someone who has decades of experience, come up with a new way of doing things and trashing everything/everyone who try to tell them it is has been done before with not good results etc.

[j123]

Some of these internet experts can get very viscous in their quest for domination. Like the author to of the letter that John posted, I’ve been keeping fish since I was 14 years old and at one time had over 40 aquariums.

There’s one “expert” that comes to mind from another web site that after I did a little autobiography said to me “Everything has changed since then and everything you know is wrong. You need to be completely retrained and re-educated.” He spewed off about 20 buzz words he got from web ads, and offered to be my personal mentor.

Photography forums a pretty vicious too, actually more so... There are a lot more self-proclaimed experts on camera forums.

I believe that many of these experts intentionally give mis-information.

Another thing I’ve learned the hard way is never give any personal information on web forums. You may end up getting stalked.

I’ll confess to being kicked off a few forums for my inappropriate response to some “experts” in their sincere attempt to “help” me.

[troysdiiscus]

Your right Larry, I dont know the legalaties of liabilty, maybe a disclaimer, change the wording, dont know but I would take it as advice, just like I would if a friend gave me suggestions on how to fix something, not holding them responsible if something went side ways. I know alot of what we do wrong is operator error and man, what a perfect world it would be if we could have that elite group to outway the imposters. Would make my life easier and I could atleast say I tried to do what was right for my discus with the information I got...
I can tell you pretty quick what I think is one of the biggest obstacles to this idea and as Rick pointed out it isn't a new one. If Al and Company aka SimplyDiscus.com labeled some of the users here as "expert" or something along those lines then they are taking on a liability. A huge one as I see it. So they have someone they have noted as expert and something goes wrong. It may or may not be directly due to the advice given by the expert but bottom line SimplyDiscus becomes liable. I don't see them wanting to take on that liability and I don't blame them.



Part of the problem with this is that this kind of situation always seems to escalate and then both the inexperienced and the experienced get rebuked for insighting a riot.

[roclement]

From a liability point of view, wouldn't a simple disclaimer in the disease questionaire suffice, something like, by submiting this form, you agree and understand that Simply Discus and it's owners are not liable for any losses that may occur...etc, etc...as long as people can't start a thread without filling out the initial form, and that is the only way to start a new thread, then there should be no legal issues.
Having said that, I am not a lawyer, nor a Internet Expert, but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night! :)

Rodrigo

[troysdiiscus]

From a liability point of view, wouldn't a simple disclaimer in the disease questionaire suffice, something like, by submiting this form, you agree and understand that Simply Discus and it's owners are not liable for any losses that may occur...etc, etc...as long as people can't start a thread without filling out the initial form, and that is the only way to start a new thread, then there should be no legal issues.
Having said that, I am not a lawyer, nor a Internet Expert, but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night! :)

Rodrigo

+1

[Orange Crush]

I dont think it is neccessary to label those with lots of knowledge/experience as "experts". If you do your due dilligence when you join the forum by reading, then you should be able to figure out who to listen to and who not to. It becomes very obvious who the experts are after reading for a bit. If someone does not do the research/reading when they start out then they are probably doomed to failure anyways reguardless of whos advice they listen to. Also, if we had people labeled as experts then there is the problem of only certain peoples advice will be taken seriously, there will not be enough debate or new ideas, and sometimes even the experts are wrong. Challenging ideas rather then just accepting them is how people learn and how discoveries are made.
On a side note, I am saddened by the fact that a lot of the long time knowledgable people have taken a backseat and stopped posting. I get the frustration they feel, I am sure they were very frustrated by me in the begining lol, but we need to hear from them because there are a lot of new people that are posting BS and no one is contradicting them. That is not good.

[Bill63SG]

I also think when when some of the advise is given,after a time,in a gruff,no so nice manner,people call foul way to much or too soon.Its like no ones ever been yelled at by a parent,coach,boss.Tell the guys on the job all the time,I get paid to work with you,not to like you.People need to grow some thicker skins.

[Orange Crush]

I also think when when some of the advise is given,after a time,in a gruff,no so nice manner,people call foul way to much or too soon.Its like no ones ever been yelled at by a parent,coach,boss.Tell the guys on the job all the time,I get paid to work with you,not to like you.People need to grow some thicker skins.
The truth hurts sometimes! :)

[nc0gnet0]

I dont think it is neccessary to label those with lots of knowledge/experience as "experts". If you do your due dilligence when you join the forum by reading, then you should be able to figure out who to listen to and who not to. It becomes very obvious who the experts are after reading for a bit.

The term "expert" is a bit overbearing and pompous, I was thinking more along the lines of a Simply Discus Medical Staff. As for due diligence, this does not take into account a good portion of first time posters come to Simply in dire straits in need of medical attention. Someone that is convinced that his/her fish is at deaths door is not going to spend the time using the search function, this is just human nature. A simple disclaimor should suffice to stave of any legal issues.

I have always been of the opinion that more fish are killed by the improper use of medications and antibiotics then by the diseases themselves. But yet on many threads I see, too often the person trying to help (as good as his or her intentions might be) makes a rush to judgement as to which course of treatment is appropriate. And while the disease questionair is a great tool, how often is the information actually accurate? Nitrates 0 ? Really ? More fish would be saved if the go to first response was to simply to do some good water changes and in the interim, ask a few more questions before recomending medication X,Y, and Z.

Rick

[Skip]

Rick.. exactly the first thing people want to do is medicate. When water changes are usually the first solution needed. but a lot of first timers don't want to do water changes because they talk about how perfect their water parameters are.. many newbies feel a medication is a magic pill to instantaneously fix a damaged a fish..
but we all felt like that at first.

I wish people would stop using the term expert. There are no expert there are just some people that have killed more fish for a longer amount of time than others

[MaiaDee]

It is frustrating when the people I tend to trust disagree. I had no idea what a can of worms I was opening when I asked about activated charcoal, and I cringe when people start talking about stocking levels.

[roclement]

I suspect the term "expert" was selected to title the article by it's author, exactly for the reason you just posted Skip, there are no "experts" just more experienced people.
Oh the irony no?

Rodrigo

[nc0gnet0]

I suspect the term "expert" was selected to title the article by it's author, exactly for the reason you just posted Skip, there are no "experts" just more experienced people.
Oh the irony no?

Rodrigo

http://270c81.medialib.glogster.com/media/f0/f0d76bf921548c4ce38cba11644bac67dfdb392c464f3998a1 249fb15aad9026/ninja-jpg.jpg

[ROOK45]

I wish people would stop using the term expert. There are no expert there are just some people that have killed more fish for a longer amount of time than others

Basically that the point I was trying to get across in post #19. There are no "experts" just hobbyist helping other hobbyist.


Jon

[Larry Bugg]

Basically that the point I was trying to get across in post #19. There are no "experts" just hobbyist helping other hobbyist.


Jon

I have to disagree.

Expert - Noun
A person who has a comprehensive and authoritative knowledge of or skill in a particular area.

I believe there indeed are experts in the Discus field and when I'm looking for help that is exactly what I want.....an expert. I'm tired of all the Political Correctness nowadays. When I'm sick I want an expert diagnosing me. When my discus are sick I also want an expert diagnosing them.

[Bill63SG]

I'm tired of all the Political Correctness nowadays.

+1

[PAR23]

From a liability point of view, wouldn't a simple disclaimer in the disease questionaire suffice, something like, by submiting this form, you agree and understand that Simply Discus and it's owners are not liable for any losses that may occur...etc, etc...as long as people can't start a thread without filling out the initial form, and that is the only way to start a new thread, then there should be no legal issues.
Having said that, I am not a lawyer, nor a Internet Expert, but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night! :)

Rodrigo

I wonder what Al thinks of all this........

[ROOK45]

I have to disagree.

Expert - Noun
A person who has a comprehensive and authoritative knowledge of or skill in a particular area.

I believe there indeed are experts in the Discus field and when I'm looking for help that is exactly what I want.....an expert. I'm tired of all the Political Correctness nowadays. When I'm sick I want an expert diagnosing me. When my discus are sick I also want an expert diagnosing them.

Are there any ichthyologists on the forum?
If not, then what do we have? I'm thinking we have beginner hobbyist, novice hobbyist, advanced hobbyist, after that expert hobbyist? All still hobbyist.
Now the problem is deciphering them over the Internet. Are they truly expert hobbyist or are they google copy and paste artist?

Jon

[ROOK45]

I have to disagree.

Expert - Noun
A person who has a comprehensive and authoritative knowledge of or skill in a particular area.

I believe there indeed are experts in the Discus field and when I'm looking for help that is exactly what I want.....an expert. I'm tired of all the Political Correctness nowadays. When I'm sick I want an expert diagnosing me. When my discus are sick I also want an expert diagnosing them.

Better yet Larry you say when you are sick you want a expert diagnosing you. Do you have the expert diagnose you via the internet? So if your discus do get sick why not go find a veterinarian that specializes in discus to diagnose your discus?

Let's find an expert!

ARE THERE ANY MEMBERS HERE THAT REGISTERED TO THIS FORUM NOT TO LEARN BUT FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF GIVING ADVICE AND DIAGNOSING SICK DISCUS?!!? ANYONE?!!?

[lipadj46]

Good lord man chillax, take the font down a few points.

[ROOK45]

Good lord man chillax, take the font down a few points.

LOL...Better?

[lipadj46]

yes much LOL!

[brewmaster15]

First off let me say this...


Al Sabetta, owner of “SimplyDiscus.com”, a long standing forum dedicated to all things Discus has this to offer:

" When a new member comes on a forum looking for advice the first thing they should do is read, not write. Take a few moments to look over the forum. If there’s a beginner’s board on the forum, start there. They may find the answer without even asking. With databases and search engines being what they are the next thing they should do is use the search function. Obviously, just jumping in and posting a question seems like it would give you the best answer but that’s not necessarily true. Sometimes spending time searching years of data will give you much more info than asking in the present time and being answered by whoever is on line.
Also veteran members get irritated when someone asks a question that has been asked a bazillion times. The next obvious step is to verify your info...just because its written doesn’t make it true. If you are considering advice from someone, do yourself a favor, read their back posts in the forum, see how they interact with others, see how other respond to their posts. Look at how long they have been in the Hobby. And by all means....Google it!”!
This guy knows his stuff after dealing with all of you over the years time and again...I would definetly defer to him in all things Discus and forum related. LOL:) Seriously the advice I gave there is alls one needs to navigate information on a forum... problem is it takes an investment in time that people don't want to make.


Now as for this...


Quote Originally Posted by Bugman View Post
I can tell you pretty quick what I think is one of the biggest obstacles to this idea and as Rick pointed out it isn't a new one. If Al and Company aka SimplyDiscus.com labeled some of the users here as "expert" or something along those lines then they are taking on a liability. A huge one as I see it. So they have someone they have noted as expert and something goes wrong. It may or may not be directly due to the advice given by the expert but bottom line SimplyDiscus becomes liable. I don't see them wanting to take on that liability and I don't blame them.




From a liability point of view, wouldn't a simple disclaimer in the disease questionaire suffice, something like, by submiting this form, you agree and understand that Simply Discus and it's owners are not liable for any losses that may occur...etc, etc...as long as people can't start a thread without filling out the initial form, and that is the only way to start a new thread, then there should be no legal issues.
Having said that, I am not a lawyer, nor a Internet Expert, but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

Rodrigo

Reality check everyone...
Everytime I start a project here I get promised the moon and sun in support...and I get left holding the ball with next to ZIP in support.. People are always so quick to comment on this or that,suggest this or that... but like in all things..they fall short in the follow up and yet quick to criticize. Its been that way from day one and is not limited to forums. Honestly, Its hard enough for me to keep up with the forum as it is in terms of a time commitment, conflict resolution, and content development . Its become my third full time job!!

Now some people want the forum (aka Brew and Crew) to take on the task of appointing or qualifying experts and advisors? I'm sorry, I wish I could do that, but from a legal point of view thats a nightmare, and I know I would get left holding that ball as well regardless of what Disclaimers I have in place. A lawyer friend recently told me , just because I have them in place, doesn't mean I can't get sued and have to defend it.. I can and it will cost me to defend myself. I have no illusions as to where the funds would come from..my pocket!!

Believe me, everytime I see "bad" advice given I think about it.. But then theres the mental health point of view.... do you have any idea how much of a headache it would be for me to just pick the "experts" many of which honestly can't agree with each other past the basics as to Discus Husbandry and Disease treatments. Listen, I may be a masochist for owning and maintaining this Discus forum, but I am definetly not STUPID! :) LOL

Maybe People need to take a step back and look at what this forum does offer more, and less on where its lacking? Maybe they should consider how they can help the forum grow and support it any way they can. Personally I need to see more in terms of deeds than in more talking. Talk is cheap...and honestly its worthless to me.

Theres no cure for the "Internet Expert", its a wide spread phenomenon these days. I can definetly tell you, I can't fix it here by myself....as a community maybe we can curb it...But I honestly doubt it, my faiths not as strong as it used to be and I find myself more pessimistic than ever before about people.

Heres a suggestion though... The board has many experienced Hobbyists. I have always gone above and beyond to share what I do and why here in my Discus Keeping. I suggest those that feel that they have experience to share...take out a thread..start a thread about what YOU do...not what someone elses does right or wrong. Teach through that thread...show in detail what you do, the results etc.. Discuss the reasons. If I see enough of these threads I will make another section...set it in the Novice board as sub forum with some kind of heading that denotes what it is and its educational purpose. That I can do and I think if enough did this, the best ways to raise discus would be self evident to most but the most obtuse hobbyists....oh and BTW... taking a thread to do this is absolutely free...so if its important to you..Why not do so?

Apologies if I come across negative here...not really my intent. However I feel I have the same right as all of you to express your opinions here.:) I don't need anyone making more work for me....I've got enough to do already..Thank you Very MUCH!!:bandana:

Gotta do a water change now..
-al

[rcomeau]

This forum already seems to be organized very well. Each post already identifies the person that posted it with the date that they joined and number of posts. Both characterize experience to some extent. Members are also already identified with the type of member that they are. This is what I gather:
Administrator
SuperModerator
Moderator
SimplyDiscus University
SimplyDiscus Sponsor
Registered Member (>10 posts)
New Member

I couldn't find the criteria for getting promoted from Registered Member to another role other than these posts:

key criteria for a moderator here should be that they are not sponsors

Sponsor selection on Simplydiscus.com

What does it take to get promoted to a better type of member? That seems to be the context for attempts to be constructive on that point.


This Forum's disease board is not moderated for accuracy of posts or advice..so do not expect it to be.
I don't see a need to improve that disclaimer. I believe the postings should stay unmoderated for accuracy. When someone posts something that seems inaccurate to you please consider that it might be right or that it was only poorly written to sound like advice rather than a question. Corrections with explanations, especially those describing contrary experiences, are appreciated and provide constructive contast. I hope this forum doesn't get cluttered with member status reminders because they seem to spawn more worthless discussions than they do to actually change behavior and contribute the understanding of keeping discus.

This forum also has moderated stickys. They apparently stick because the experts already agree to their content. However, there doesn't seem to be any effort made to update them after that. No effort after the immediate posts that follow and none after many years. For example, some don't account for the current wide spread use of chloramine.

For example, the Tank Setup Questionnaire Sticky includes...


- tank ph _____
- Ph of the water straight out of your tap _____

- well water ____
- municipal water ____

Experts seem to agree PH changes are a significant concern yet the questionnarie doesn't clearly ask for what the PH is of the water used to refill the tank. The two questions about PH don't account for aging between the tap and tank. It would be better to explicitly as for the PH of the water used to refill the tank and best to explain why it is important to avoid differences.

I also saw a response that indicated yes to using both well water and municipal water. It would be clearer to ask if well water or municipal water is used and leave it to the responder to clarify when both are used if that is really the case.

I'll make the kind of statement that I hope goes away...
This thread seems to have been started with an opinion from someone across the internet that proclaimed to be an expert at both discus and internet behavior while circumventing the forum's identification to back up the experience and without first reading about the forum. Maybe a moderator should sensor this thread.

[John_Nicholson]

"This thread seems to have been started with an opinion from someone across the internet that proclaimed to be an expert at both discus and internet behavior while circumventing the forum's identification to back up the experience and without first reading about the forum. Maybe a moderator should sensor this thread. "

lol.

-john

[Bill63SG]

[QUOTE"This thread seems to have been started with an opinion from someone across the internet that proclaimed to be an expert at both discus and internet behavior while circumventing the forum's identification to back up the experience and without first reading about the forum. Maybe a moderator should sensor this thread. "

[/QUOTE]

Lol,The way I've seen some threads tailspin out of control,this one should almost be a "sticky" on how to discuss a topic,get a little heated,but still stay civil.

[brewmaster15]

"This thread seems to have been started with an opinion from someone across the internet that proclaimed to be an expert at both discus and internet behavior while circumventing the forum's identification to back up the experience and without first reading about the forum. Maybe a moderator should sensor this thread. "

[/QUOTE]


Lol,The way I've seen some threads tailspin out of control,this one should almost be a "sticky" on how to discuss a topic,get a little heated,but still stay civil.

Theres nothing wrong with this thread as far moderation goes. Civil discussion is always good and welcome.

-al