Planted Discus Tank

[ro_nin]

Hi,
Got a new tank - 240 Acrylic.
Looking to fulfill my long time dream of keeping some discus but would hate to have this huge empty bare bottom tank.
Have another (55G) tank with a variety of small basic fish (guppies, platties, zebra, some plecos, a loach).
Basically I have 2 options:
1 move everything from the small tank to the large one (including plants) and use the 55 bare bottom to raise the discus

2 break in the large tank and let the plants acclimate to the higher temp then try and raise the discus in the large planted tank.

What do you guys think?


On a side note, any advise in regards to the substrate for the plants in the large tank would be appreciated; the 55G has plain gravel but the plants are not perfect, some of them don't grow properly. I see some people use a mix of peat, sand, laterite, etc for a substrate and cover it with gravel; would this be a viable option for the discus tank?

P.S. I had fish for a long time but that was in another lifetime (and another country where just having an aquarium was something to be proud of) so while I have some basic understanding of what is what I not anywhere close to being experienced. I would also hate to spend a couple of hundred on some discus just to try them and either kill them or mistreat them to the point where they don't grow properly.

[discuspaul]

You will likely get a number of replies advising you to go with the larger tank on a bare-bottom basis, and that is arguably the best (& safest) approach for a novice at discus-keeping to take.

Having said that though, I note that you would hate to have this large tank bare-bottom. And since you do have reasonably lengthy experience fish-keeping in planted environments, and IF you are prepared to get 5 or 6 adult or near-adult discus, say 5" or larger, you could have a go at a planted tank in that new 240 L of yours.

I would suggest though, that if you should decide to do that, be sure to keep it simple - low-tech, lightly planted (suggest swords, crypts, hygrophilas, anubias, java ferns & the like), and use pool filter sand only as a substrate. It's much easier to keep your tank quite clean as needed by discus, and will grow hardy, acclimated plants well using root tab ferts. And don't add any other tankmates for the time being.

I repeat though, you would need to get larger discus whose immune systems are well-developed, and be prepared to undertake large, frequent water changes - 50% or more, say 3 X a week, along with a religiously maintained tank & substrate cleansing routine.
I would be happy to help you out, step by step along the way should you so wish. So don't hesitate to PM me with any questions you might have.

You may wish to have a look at a couple of planted set-ups of mine to give you an idea of how things might appear:
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/3RedSnakeSkins
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/Sept2011
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/lolliblues

[ro_nin]

Paul, it's actually a 240 Gallons, almost 1000L of water.
I was hoping somebody figured out a way to grow them in a HEAVILY planted tank where the plants/filtration would be able to process all the leftovers and waste. I only plan on getting 7-9 of them anyway and I could cycle the tank (and the bio part of the filtration system - about 4 gal of denitrate / matrix) with a high load.

Basically I have the time and I am willing to experiment, just not with 50-90$/tail fish. If somebody could at least let me know how much a discus eats / wastes I could add a similar bioload to the tank and see if it can handle it; worse that can happen I will end up with a stinky pool and have to break it down and restart the cycling.

P.S. NICE pictures!!!

[discuspaul]

Well, I hadn't counted on a newcomer to discus starting off with a 'monster' 240 gal tank - that's more than unusual - it's a real rarity. But, wrong assumption by me as to liters, my bad.
240 gallons - that's a 'horse of a different hue', no pun intended.

There has been success by a few, raising discus in a HEAVILY planted environment, but I believe it's not at all prevalent by any stretch.
However, if you intend to restrict your stock to 7 - 9 discus, even large adults, and you don't heavily populate the tank with a large number of dither fish tankmates, then I believe your then undercrowded situation will give you a lot of margin for error (translation: not much harm from mismanagement).

I wouldn't even hazard a hopefully intelligent guesstimate as to how much a group of say 9 adult discus would eat, and the wastes they would produce, that could be 'neutralized' by bio-system & filtration effort, as well as your plantings, but I nonetheless believe you would still need to give some degree of attention to tank cleansing to maintain the water quality & conditions the discus should have to thrive in, no matter how much benefit is being derived from the extra-ordinary planting environment.
All I believe you can do is, as you say, experiment somewhat, see how it goes, and make the adjustments you deem necessary.

[ro_nin]

Getting the 240 was not planned at all. It just happened that browsing through craigslist I bumped into a deal and could not resist.
The tank is still not setup; painting the base presently, then i'll have to buff out a couple of scratches and set it up.
If somebody could give me a rough idea on how much a small school of discus will eat / waste (how much and what kind of food you use a day (and number of fish); personal experience will vary but with a couple of answers I believe a statistically meaningful average could be arrived at) I would greatly appreciate it.

[Elliots]

I have a planted tank and I decided not to grow out small Discus. I decided on 5" to start and I am happy.
Please consider that if you buy X number of fish and Y number survive and grow the cost of fish increases! For example, if you buy 10 small Discus at $20 each and half die your cost is $40 per fish. If you think about it it may be cheaper to buy larger fish.
Also consider a bare bottom to grow the fish out for however many months that takes and then add plants and gravel.
You do not say where you live. If you live near a sponsor visit them to see what the fish actually look like and cost.
I could easily be wrong but growing out 7-9 fish in a 240 gal aquarium you will not have problems with fish waste and if you do not over feed that should not be a problem.
How much to feed your fish? To be conservative whatever they eat in 10 minutes. Please remember that Discus may or may not start to eat immediately so just watch what you are doing and read a lot on SD.

[ro_nin]

I'm fortunate to leave in mass, close to the owner and founder of the forum. from what I understand he breeds them (or at least used to). I will try to give him a buzz and see if I can have a look at some that are kept professionally.

[Wahter]

I've grown a few discus out in a bare bottom planted tank a few years ago. Some people think it looks a bit odd, but the plants and the discus did fine.

Some Eruptions from Kenny.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Chunker/aquarium/IMG_0843_zpsa30eccc5.jpg

Some Blue Diamonds from Kenny (the smaller ones - the big one was from Eric)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Chunker/aquarium/IMG_0842_zps18f2c6ed.jpg

Some RSG's - this tank was fairly densely planted - lots of sword (Echinodorus) plants.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Chunker/aquarium/plantedpots1.jpg


Hope that helps,


Walter

[discuspaul]

Love your wilds in the bottom tank, Walter !
Superb-looking discus.

[Elliots]

Walter, I have a planted Discus tank. Your tank is the first one I have seen photos of that looks good to me with potted plants! Maybe because I have never seen that many pots in one tank.

[Wahter]

Thanks for the compliments. I need to mention that I did run with a lot of lighting (about 165 watts) over the tanks (50 and 55 gallon tanks) and I did use a pressurized CO2 setup. I changed 50% of the water three times a week.

I have one friend who, for years, kept a 125 gallon tank that was packed full of potted plants. He had so many (of different shapes and sizes), you could barely make out where the pots were.


Walter

[Curt]

Walter very nice tanks!

I was thinking about this thread in the shower, an if it were me ro_nin I would set up your 240 as a fully planted tank and let it grow in. Then get a group of 7-9 juvies and grow thom in your 55 as a bare bottom tank. Once they get to there 5-6in length your 240 should be ready to go. Then transfer your fish and enjoy.

I also have a 55 planted, but for ease of care with my discus they are growing up in a 55 bare botom. Then I may move them into the planted tank. I am hopeing for a pair or 2 as I want to try breeding too. But I still have 8-12 months before I have to worry about that. Good luck an post some pics.

Curt

[ro_nin]

Last weekend went and saw the beauties that Al keeps and breeds, .....
Man, .... THEY ARE MAAAARVEEEELOOOUUUUUSSSSS!!!!!
He has some small ones he'll have for sale in couple of weeks (or at least that is what I understood), zipping around happily and grabbing the food like it's the last meal before Easter Fasting (and they already looked fed when we came in). Never seen such lively and active little discus.
Now I understand why people say "go see some kept by a breeder and don't waste your money on LPS fish).
Started cycling the 240 (fishless, with ammonia), once it's done cycling i'll transfer everything I got into it (maybe i'll transfer just the plants in couple of days and wait with the fish till it's done cycling).
Hopefully I'll be just in time to transfer everything and bleach the 55 so I can get some from this spawn, if not, ...., I guess he'll have some more later.

On a sidenote, does anybody keep live food (like white worms, grindals, microworms or vinnegar eels) to feed them or do most of you just rely on freezedried bloodworms, pellets and BeefHart?