A discus tale [Archive]

the20tonknuckler

04-06-2013, 12:04 PM

It all started about a year ago. I was sitting at home watching my fish when I began to see some mating behavior. At this time I had 3 tanks. A little 10 gal quarantine, the 47 gal column that I started with, and the 125 gal that had been running about 8 months.

I had a group of juvies in the 47. After giving my 1st group a nice new home, I quickly decided I had wanted more and had pick up a 2nd group that after a few months were almost 5 inches.
I watched mating between my blue diamond and my red turk for 3 weeks in a row when I decided to move everyone into the 125 and use the 47 for the 2 that wanted to mate. I made the moves, cleaned the 47, making it a bare bottom.

I watched them for 2 months like clockwork the bd would lay and the red turk would eat. In the mean time I had a couple pigeons starting to do the same thing in the 125. I decided at that point to moved the 2 pairs and try my luck with the pigeons. This was the middle of last summer. At this point I had 17 adult/ sub adult fish, with 15 in the 125 gal.

I watch the pigeons have similar results, at witch time I learned to make cages to put around the cones I bought. Up until this point they were laying on stones. Meanwhile in the big tank my blue ss took and interest in the red turk and the bd started up with my blue colbalt. This lead me to the decision to buy and set up some tanks to try and breed. I set up 6 tanks total in my basement. 3 29 gal. 1 garage sale 30 gal I got nice and cheap, and then the 47 gal and 10 gal I had were moved down to complete.

I put the pigeons in 1 of the 29 gal, and paid the blue ss and red turk in one, and the bd abd colbalt in the other. 10 gal was srtictly qt. 30 gal was for water storage and ageing. The 47 I was going to leave empty. Compaired to the others it was a pain to clean, 30 inches tall. But I ended up setting it back up for a 3rd group of juvies in January.

3 months in around xmas time I had not yet gotten any fry. At this time I read a lot of stuff here on the forum and taught myself a bit about water chemistry. Working with 3 pairs, I tried different things with each. I split the bd and cobalt up. Their eggs kept going white. I repaired her with the blue turk I had. The other pairs seemed to be progressing.

Well the bd and turk would lay, but he wouldn't fertilize at all. The pigeons after about 6 months finally got wigglers twice, which they ate and have since stopped laying back in January. The blue ss and red turk I got 1 batch of fry off but then I lost the red turk.

I feel I now know enough on what I need to do to get conditiond right for breeding. I put the bd and colbalt back together this week and moved the pigeons back to the 125 for now. I also had a red figi and red melon pair in the 125. I gave them their own tank. The reds have laid once, but managed to knock the screen and munch on the eggs. The blues are gaurding a clutch that last night looked good, but today at 42 hours in are now almost all white. Pretty sure at this point that the cobalt is a mule. He mates well and runs up the cone right after her.

I think at this point my best bet would be to pick up a proven bd male that I could try to move between the bd and blue ss females I have. Out of 14 adults I have only 4 are female and it seems like both my blue males are duds.

I have some juvies I picked up with the hope of getting really lucky to be able to match up with some if the adults I have in another 6 months time. I have my 1st group of juvies comming from Kenny's as well. Hoping in the next year or so I get a few more mating pairs going.

Getting 1 good bd male would help. Best scenario would be to get 1 each bd and blue ss males.

As you can tell I'm in deep. Lol

Second Hand Pat

04-06-2013, 01:32 PM

Mike, what is your TDS or better yet hardness or GH? When I first started to play with breeding I started in my tap water with a TDS of 233. They would lay and eat the eggs. Pairs were wild males with Kenny's Cuipeua X female. Once I started to add RO to the mix and the TDS fell to 80 I started to get wigglers. Then the wilds started breeding and the rest is history.

Larry Bugg

04-06-2013, 02:39 PM

Yup, I'm with Pat. With all that laying and no fertilizing I would check the TDS.

the20tonknuckler

04-06-2013, 06:02 PM

Well out of my tap my cold water is in the high 130's now. A bit higher in the summer. I started mixing my water in feb with ro. In march I got the 1 batch of fry but then lost the male for that pair. The pigeons haven't laid in 4 months. The reds are a new pair. And the blues keep going white.

I feel the pigeons will get it right when they start back at it since I did get wigglers from them. The reds I have not seen enough of. Both times I saw eggs I did not witness the actual mating and both times they got munched quickly. I'm almost certain the cobalt is a mule. The blue turk just would rather eat then fertilze. That leaves me with a need for at least 1 good blue male.

I attribute all the white eggs in the beginning to my lack of knowledge on water chemistry. The fish have been mating close to a year now for some, but have only been separate for about 6 months and with the right water for 6 weeks. They age in range between 2 and 3 years old.

nc0gnet0

04-06-2013, 07:23 PM

Well out of my tap my cold water is in the high 130's now.

You need to measure TDS at tank temp. 130 cold most likely equates to above 200 at 82 degrees.

Rick

the20tonknuckler

04-07-2013, 09:25 AM

Sorry for not being clear. The mating tanks have a tds right around 80 while the tanks with the fry and juvies use just aged tap which hovers right around 150 in their tanks. The display tank is right around 300 but I have it heavily planted and I dose with flourish and wc less. My tap water has a ph swing from a 7 to a 7.4 after it's aged. Mixing with the ro the breeding tanks are right about 7.0 on ph.

These blue fish will gaurd and fan the eggs for long after they are supposed to hatch. The last couple of times she has even gone dark with a nice looking halo in anticipation of fry that never seem to come for her.

Second Hand Pat

04-07-2013, 11:12 AM

Mike, how old are your males? I understand it takes males longer to mature and to be able to fertilize the eggs. For example my piwow group I have two females which have laid eggs but none of the other fish cover the eggs, only eat the eggs.

the20tonknuckler

04-07-2013, 11:48 AM

The colbalt was one of my first fish. He has to be close to 3 years old. Got my first 6 at 1.5 inches back in October of 2011.

The blue turk that shows no intrest in anything but munching is almost 2 years old. The red turk I lost was at least 2.5 years old before he decided to stop munching eggs. All of my adults range between the 20 to 32 months age range.

My first group came from a small lfs. I happened to stop there while they were unpacking a shipment. I got them right in the breeders bags for 20 bucks each. I have no idea where they actually came from though. And 2 of them changed color completely from when I got them. The colbalt was completely white with a blue stripe over his eye and one by his tale for the first few days.
The one that I think is a silver pigeon, or white butterfly wa completely a bright fire orange at 1.5 inches. As he grew his color just kept getting lighter.
Considering how I go t them and how old he is, I am pretty sure the cobalt is just not very fertile. My plan at the moment is to keep the cobalt and bd together for the time being. I am leaning toward getting a proven male bd to pop between my bd and blue ss in the not so distant future if I still don't see success soon.

the20tonknuckler

04-08-2013, 10:20 AM

So today my blue ss female that I got my fry from last month after being back in the community tank for less then a week laid eggs with 2 different males. It was something to watch. She chose the virgin red and my snow white got into the mix. In the display tank these eggs have no chance. I was just wondering if either male would make a suitable mate. Since I don't have a blue male to try and mate with her should I attempt either cross? I just bought tanks during the petco sale so I have the space. Her 1st batch of fry are looking good.

Northwoods Discus

04-08-2013, 11:51 AM

It is possible the males that had lots of color and then lost it, were given hormones to make them look good. That may have caused them fertility problems in adulthood.

the20tonknuckler

04-08-2013, 03:09 PM

Northwood discus...

I was kind of thinking that too. With the pb I had a good ammount of wigglers before they ate them and stopped laying for me. The cobalt though is a different story.

What I plan to do is lower the tds count into the 40s range before they spawn again. I figure I have a few days to get it down before she tries to lay again. She has literally been laying every 7 to 10 days for 10 months now. I feel bad for her that she has not gotten fry.

the20tonknuckler

04-10-2013, 11:39 PM

So today my blue diamond and cobalt laid again. They actually let me watch. Up until now I've only caught the before and after, but not the down and dirty. I was able to get some video. I think the main problem is he doesn't seem interested in fertilizing. He will do the shake and shimmy and clean the spawning site with her for a day or two before she lays, but when it comes time, he just swims around her and the cone instead of making his runs. Then they both protect the eggs like crazy.

I had these 2 together for 3 months before splitting them up for a bit. Last time around he showed less interest in the process or gaurding the eggs. I'm hoping he's just a late bloomer and will get it right soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkjTfZH-Ys&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Chad Hughes

04-10-2013, 11:49 PM

Have you tried placing a third fish with this pair? If you've got another male, put all three in the breeding tank. This may give him a little competition. Might help! Sometimes you've got to experiment.

the20tonknuckler

04-11-2013, 12:27 AM

I have not done that yet. When I removed the cobalt before I put a blue turk with her. But he just wanted to munch on the eggs so I moved the cobalt back. I have other males so I might give that a try. Should I use a divider or just let the 3 mingle? We will give these eggs a couple days but I don't think I'll get wigglers.

Chad Hughes

04-11-2013, 12:37 AM

The goal is to get that male to defend the spawn site and become a stronger partner in the pair. It may work, it may not. Try it with and without transparent divider.

the20tonknuckler

04-12-2013, 02:35 PM

As anticipated their eggs went white at about 30 hours. After I water change tonight I will put one of my other known males in and watch for a bit. If needed I will drop in a divider. I will give them a couple of spawns like that. If still nothing I will seriously consider buying a good blue male of some kind. It'll be worth it if I get fry.

Chad Hughes

04-12-2013, 02:59 PM

Good luck Mike! Fingers crossed for you buddy!

yojimbo

04-13-2013, 07:07 AM

Yeah mate, good luck.

the20tonknuckler

04-23-2013, 03:59 PM

10 days into adding a fish into the blues tank and there has been no mating behavior at all. Both blues went right after the new guy and started beating him up so I dropped a screen between them. Since then they have all taken to just swimming by the divider. With just 2 fish she was laying every thurs afternoon no matter which mate I had with her since the new year. I'll give it a couple more days but I think fish number 3 goes back to the display tank.

Second Hand Pat

04-23-2013, 04:28 PM

You could remove the two fish who were beating up on the new guy or place the female in with the new guy.

the20tonknuckler

04-23-2013, 06:18 PM

Pat, thanks for the suggestion.

The fish I added from the display was a pretty heavily peppered pigeon. In the bb tank his peppering has faded quite a bit. I could try one of my other known males, but for the bd my colbalt is probably the best match I have. I'm going to give him some more time to get it right. If I don't see some mating by next week the pigeon goes back to his old home in the display. It's a patience game. Although both fish have to be close to 3 years old now.

Discus-Hans

04-24-2013, 02:13 AM

I'm going to give him some more time to get it right. It's a patience game. Although both fish have to be close to 3 years old now.

Most males "get it" between the 14 and 18 months. Blue Diamonds males are a little slower 24 months. If yours are on 36 months and didn't fertilize an egg yet......... ??????

Hans

the20tonknuckler

04-24-2013, 08:49 AM

Hans,

I would say he is 32 months. He does the dance and cleans well but when the time comes he just doesn't make the runs behind her. But then he guards the eggs fiercely even after they turn white. I am giving it a bit more time, but I think I'm going to need to purchase another male.

the20tonknuckler

04-27-2013, 05:41 PM

Well I got about 200 eggs off of the blue pair sometime today. I was not around to watch. Keeping my fingers crossed tbat I get something this time around.

Second Hand Pat

04-27-2013, 09:23 PM

Congrats Mike, crossing fingers with you.

the20tonknuckler

04-29-2013, 12:13 AM

Eggs went white again. Time to get another male I think. Anyone have suggestions? What can I expect to spend for a nice fertile bd male?

Second Hand Pat

04-29-2013, 12:17 AM

Mike, Hans has a sale on single adults if you feel a new male is needed.
Pat

the20tonknuckler

05-02-2013, 04:19 PM

Pat,

Thanks. I'm sure the fish I would get from Hans would fill my need. But after pricing, I think I would be better off getting a group of smaller guys for the same price. Anyway today I put both blue fish back into the display tank. The 2 pigeons have shown some signs of mating the last couple days so I gave them their own tank again.

My blue ss has spawned 2 times now with my virgin red in the display tank. She is the one I had gotten fry from. I know that it's not a great pairing but I may give them a shot anyway. I could use some more experience raising fry.

Second Hand Pat

05-02-2013, 04:46 PM

Sounds like a plan Mike, I am applying lessons learned from my last two fry batches to the current one. Is the virgin red PB based? If not the fry may have a surprising outcome. If she is PB based then most likely will you will not be happy with the result due to peppering.
Pat

the20tonknuckler

05-02-2013, 10:15 PM

Pat, the virgin red is 9 bar. I took a bit of video today. They were all out and in the open on display. Anywho here they are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx5XERqBYg8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Trubble

05-03-2013, 08:14 PM

They are beautiful.

PP_GBR

05-03-2013, 08:55 PM

Mike

Beautiful planted tank and fish. Like the classical music too. Is it Ana Vidovic?

the20tonknuckler

05-03-2013, 10:56 PM

Bach prelude in C minor

the20tonknuckler

05-04-2013, 01:52 PM

Thanks for the compliments. Interestingly enough the move back to the display tank has not seemed to deter the blue pair. They have remained close to each other and now have pushed everyone to at least the midway point of the tank claiming half the tank as theirs. They are now cleaning the cone and doing a shimmy shake dance. He is super aggressive towards anyone getting close to the cone. Maybe this will trigger him to start doing fertilizing runs. The blue ss female seems to want in on it as well. Lol.

the20tonknuckler

05-07-2013, 09:10 PM

So my blue diamond did in fact lay eggs sometime yesterday afternoon in my display tank. Not sure if they were fertilized or not, or by whom. The cobalt is actually doing the majority of tending to the eggs and at about 30 hours in now there is only 1 white egg. We will see for sure sometime tomorrow. Between the 2 of them nobody is getting close to the eggs.
Maybe this is exactly what the fella needed. Or maybe someone else snuck in and did the job. Lol.

Discus Ranz

05-07-2013, 09:22 PM

YEAY Mike!!!! Gonna be a Discus dad!!!!

Or mom........... which ever applies! LOL

Congrats man.

~Ranz~

the20tonknuckler

05-08-2013, 04:16 PM

We are at around 48 hours old for the eggs now and while some have disappeared and some are white, there are a good 40 to 50 that definately were fertilized this time. And it is the blue male mainly taking care of the eggs still. The female joins him but keeps chasing everything that gets close.
I don't have too much hope that any will survive in this tank. I've thought of moving them all. I have several empty tanks, just no cycled filters. I have a HOB that I could put media in, but that's no ideal either. I am about a month or so away from having all the new tanks up and ready to go.
Can I move them and just use an airstone? Could I just move the eggs to the pigeon blood pair? They are the only ones I have in a separate tank with filter right now. Maybe they will foster.
The water in this tank was not mixed down with RO and the tds is in the 170s. Ph is a 7.2 I'm surprised that any of the eggs look good.

iceDiscus45

05-08-2013, 11:19 PM

Hi Mike,

I am new here and in the Buffalo area. I am looking for a local breeder to stock my tank as I'm just getting back into the hobby. Do you ever have juvies for sale or know of anyone in the area who does? My email is icediscus45 at gmail dot com. Thanks :-)

the20tonknuckler

05-09-2013, 10:39 PM

Icediscus45 wish I could help. I'm not there yet. Hopefully soon. :)

As expected, I did not see any hatch out in the display tank. Maybe next time around I'll catch them in the act. It did look like some were fertile, but between 50 and 60 hours they all went white. It would be nice to see him making runs up the cone before I move them back to a separate tank.

The blue ss and virgin red are still swimming together a lot. I think when I'm all set up in the basement that I'm going to give them a shot as well.

Still nothing off the pigeons. 4 full months since I last saw eggs. I had wigglers from them but they ate them both times.

iceDiscus45

05-10-2013, 12:26 AM

I look forward to it! :-)

the20tonknuckler

05-16-2013, 10:58 PM

Getting frustrated with my pairs. The pigeons are still on strike. I had wigglers from them twice months ago but for the last few months its nothing.

Dumb blue male can't seem to get it right.

And I'm still not sure the blue ss has really paired with the virgin red.

After having some fry I just want more. So I bought a group of 3R2's from mmorris. Once I get them all settled in I'll post some video of all 3 grow out tanks. 8

I am going to need to order a linear pump soon. I move slow, but I figure by mid summer I'll be set with all my tanks. I have 4 20g, 4 29g, 1 30g, 1 47g, 2 75g, that will be all set when I am done. Right I am only running 4 of them. I got all the empty ones painted today. I am also going to need to order a decent RO unit. I might add a couple more bigger tanks along the way.

Any suggestions on the equipment I need?

I had originally not planned to plumb the tanks, but I have been doing a lot of watching diy fishkeepers on YouTube and have been thinking maybe I should. An all inclusive sump system seems most economic in the long run. Just keep the qt tanks separate. Pros and cons on this? I will probably just keep each tank separate, maybe plumb just for draining.

We plan on moving in the next couple of years and it's going to feel like I am tearing it all down just after I set it all up. Lol good thing is we plan to rent out this apartment so I'll have time to move and set up.

PP_GBR

05-17-2013, 11:29 AM

Mike

How many of 3R2's did you get?

the20tonknuckler

05-20-2013, 08:31 PM

I am getting a group of 8 that should be here tomorrow.

Second Hand Pat

05-20-2013, 08:51 PM

Those will be nice Mike.

the20tonknuckler

05-20-2013, 10:18 PM

I hope so. I'm pretty excited.

the20tonknuckler

05-21-2013, 08:53 PM

I got my fish from Martha around 1130 this morning. Good looking little guys. Nice round shape. Right at 2 inches. Not much color yet. They have eaten bloodworms for me 3 times today. I will post some video later. I probably will start a thread just for them as a grow out timeline.

PP_GBR

05-21-2013, 09:07 PM

Martha does have nice fish. Her red turks have very nice round shape too. Please post your video. I'd like to see them.

the20tonknuckler

05-24-2013, 12:19 AM

I started a separate thread for the 3r2's. There is a video there.

I have been wanting to get some video of all my tanks shot but have been rather busy.

So I now have 3 grow out tanks going. I have a couple more sponge filters cycling in 20 gallon tanks. I hope to soon have some of the fish from my 125 down there. I need to order a linear pump. Any recommendations?

I also been looking for some 75 gallon tanks. Mainly on Craig's list. I figure I have a couple months at least before I need them, but I'm hoping to get them cheap.

the20tonknuckler

05-25-2013, 10:12 AM

My pigeon blood pair did not eat yesterday and again this am when I offered food. There was some more normal looking poo to clean up and the female seems to be occasionally pecking at the glass instead of the cone. Should I be concerned? All of my tanks down in the basement get just about daily water changes.

I currently have 4 tanks running in my basement and a couple more cycling. The tanks are spaced out. There is a few feet of space between each. The new 3r2s are in the tank closest to the pair. I am using separate siphons to clean each tank.

Second Hand Pat

05-25-2013, 10:27 AM

Mike, I would observe for now.

PP_GBR

05-25-2013, 03:04 PM

M

I'd give them a dose of epsom salt 2 tbsp/10 gal and observe them closely at first feeding tomorrow.

the20tonknuckler

05-25-2013, 09:54 PM

Ok so earlier in the day I noticed the temp on the tank was down. It was down a bit last night but we had a cold night and the basement gets cold. The light on the heater is still on but when I checked it in the afternoon it is no longer getting hot. Their tank went from 84 down to 76 before I got a different heater in their tank. Now it is back up to 81.

They shunned the bloodworms last night, the beefheart this a.m. and bloodworms again tonight. Other then that they are acting perfectly fine. I see no other signs that annything might be wrong.

This is my 3rd fluval heater to burn out in the last few months. None were more then 3 years old. Think I'm buying a different brand in the future.

the20tonknuckler

05-26-2013, 07:10 PM

The pigeons still did not eat in front of me, but most of the bloodworms I gave them disappeared when I left the room for a bit.

I got a chance to see the blues lay in the display tank today. I don't think the male is ever going to get it right.

I've only seen the snakeskin and virgin red lay twice since I returned her to the display.

I figure since I just got the 3r2s from Martha and I've kind of switch modes with the 3 different grow tanks in the basement, that I have 6 to 8 weeks before I move out the other pairs in the display tank. By that time I should have all the tanks set with cycled filters. I have a couple sponge cycling now, but I think I am going to diy some k1 filters. They seem easy enough to make and simple and clean.

the20tonknuckler

05-31-2013, 08:39 AM

I have been watching the pigeons for a week. There is no flashing, fin clamping, funny behavior of any kind, but they still are not showing much interest in food. They pecked at bh last night after not eating for 3 or 4 days. Something's definately up. I've just been doing the daily wc. Keeping the temp at 83.

The eggs on the blue guys went white again.

I ordered k1 media from Josie and some freeze dried black worm cubes from the forum. I want to get away from the messy beefheart.

PP_GBR

05-31-2013, 08:12 PM

Mike

Are the pair near other tanks? I mean they could see other fish.

the20tonknuckler

05-31-2013, 09:42 PM

They can not see other fish. They were moved into the tank 4 weeks ago. It is the tank I had the blue pair in for 6 months and all the adult fish were together until last fall.
They are still very social with me. Not spooked when I approach. They just don't seem to have much of an appetite. Poo was normal from what was ate last night, but they didn't really eat for me again today.

The other 3 tanks I have in the basement are all good. And everyone upstairs in the planted tank are good also, although I need to wc the tank this weekend.

PP_GBR

05-31-2013, 09:55 PM

I just moved my pair to another tank, side by side and they seem doing well. They always hang out on the side looking out to other fish in the tank next to them.

I must confess that I gave them 2 PP treatments after I moved them out of the main tank.

the20tonknuckler

05-31-2013, 10:08 PM

I've never used PP. I try not to use anything, but then again I wish I had acted sooner a couple times now.

PP_GBR

05-31-2013, 11:02 PM

I'm afraid to use meds but not PP. You need to clean up your pair in order to have healthy fry.

the20tonknuckler

06-25-2013, 08:59 PM

So the story goes about a month ago now...... I had a major setback. 3 different tanks of fish that were healthy and eating the night before, dead or half dead the following morning. I lost the entire tank from Martha. All 8. Plus 2 of my albinos from Kenny's , 3 blue pigeon bloods and a yellow pigeon. I had 22 different fish in 3 different grow tanks and am now down to 8.

I don't know what happened. I woke up to a bunch of dead fish. All 3 tanks were affected. I was devastated. It's taken me a while to come to post about it.

I ended up putting all the remaining fish together. They were treated with furan2 for 4 days followed by a 10 day round of metro and now appear to be healthy.

I ended up throwing out all the frozen food I had in hand along with all the filters that I was using downstairs. I broke down all the tanks and various equipment and bleached everything down and let them dry.

In other news... my blue pair had a spawn make it to free swimmers in the display tank, not many, but an improvement over all duds. My blue ss and virgin red are definately a pair and have had 1 set of wigglers that were eaten in the display. The pigeons are still not laying, but are eating well snd appear nice and healthy.

I am currently putting together new k1 media filters to use. Once cycled I will try again in the fall.

PP_GBR

06-25-2013, 11:47 PM

Mike

Sorry to hear this. I was going to ask you how Martha's fry doing. Was there cod in your bh mix? If you are interested in the pix earlier, PM me.

Second Hand Pat

06-26-2013, 08:47 AM

Wow Mike, truly sorry to hear. Sounds like you think it is food related.
Pat

lizziotti

06-26-2013, 09:50 AM

Sorry that happened glad you are still trying though things will get better!:)

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

the20tonknuckler

06-26-2013, 10:56 AM

Thanks...

I have no idea why. I threw out the food just because i was not sure. The display tank upstairs was not affected and I was feeding them the same food. I am at a holding point right now. I want to put my pairs back to tanks for breeding, but am leary of putting anyone else down to the basement. Or moving anyone from there up to the main tank as well.
The 8 survivors in the basement range in size from 3.5 to 4.5 inches so I have a bit of time before they are display tank ready. I'm almost of the mind that I should just get rid of them and then maybe start fresh in the fall after all the new filters are finished cycling out

PP_GBR

06-26-2013, 11:10 AM

How many feedings did you give the fish in the basement on that day?

the20tonknuckler

06-26-2013, 11:16 AM

Probably 4.

I feel like it was not the food. I think it was something I introduced from mixing fish from different sources. When I woke up that morning I had a total of 8 dead. Throughout the day I lost the others. They looked fine, then started whirling, and then dead.

PP_GBR

06-26-2013, 11:25 AM

I did not think it was the food. If it was the food, fish must have bloated bellies. It takes longer than just overnight for fish to die of bloated belly. What were you mixing? Martha's & Kenny's?

the20tonknuckler

06-26-2013, 11:30 AM

I had Kenny's in 1 tank, Martha's in a 2nd, and fish I picked up from a local guy in a 3rd tank mixed with a few I had from a lfs. A total of 24 in 3 tanks. 4 different sources all in the same room.

PP_GBR

06-26-2013, 11:36 AM

I'm trying to digest what you are saying. Fish died in their own tanks and there was not Martha's mixing with Kenny's/LFS. Did you using same equipment/hose for all the tanks?

I said it before, it's time to learn how to PP.

Second Hand Pat

06-26-2013, 11:53 AM

Mike, of the fish left, which source are they from?

the20tonknuckler

06-26-2013, 12:27 PM

Yes fish died in all 3 tanks and sources were separate with the exception that the lfs and local source were together. I had them the longest. I use separate siphons and buckets and a python for the biggest. Then I use the same pump and hose to pump in the aged water. And i had been doing my wc o each tank at different times of the day. 1 in the AM 1 after dinner and the last like 2 hours later.

All of Martha's are gone. They were the smallest. Out of what is left 2 are from Kenny, 1 from the lfs, and 5 from the local guy

PP_GBR

06-26-2013, 12:59 PM

Was there anything suspicious such as the fish were acting little off? Did you inspect the heaters/air pumps/temp/electrical? Hang in there Mike.

lizziotti

06-26-2013, 02:44 PM

If it possible you forgot to add prime or whatever you use after a water change?

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Ryan

06-26-2013, 05:48 PM

For multiple fish to die in multiple tanks on the same day, I'd suspect the water.

the20tonknuckler

08-04-2013, 08:57 PM

So, I'm pretty positive it was something viral.

After my last post I continued to have issues with the 8 juvies I had left. Over the course of a week it became clear that some were not ever going to recover fully. I ended up culling 3 and dumping the other 5 at one of the local lfs around here. I then completely cleaned out all the equipment in the basement.

Finally I picked a sacrificial fish from the display and plopped him in with the 1 remaining pair I had down there. It's been a month and all 3 seem fine so I think I am safe to move them back to the display. Then I can start the process of cycling out new filters to try agin.

PP_GBR

08-19-2013, 10:04 AM

Mike

Good luck with your new venture this time and don't forget 3R2s from Martha.

the20tonknuckler

08-19-2013, 01:06 PM

Thanks.

Lots of activity in my display tank lately. The pigeons have taken a 3rd partner and are laying eggs as I type. The blue pair has eggs that are around 30 hours old. And my bue ss and virgin red are gaurding a big clutch of wigglers on an Amazon sword. There's at least 150 of them at this point.
Feeling pretty optimistic. Just waiting for filters to cycle through.

PP_GBR

08-20-2013, 09:53 AM

M

Awesome. Order Tetra Safe Start from Kens Fish next time. Use TSS to speed up the cycle. Keep us posted here.

the20tonknuckler

08-20-2013, 10:28 AM

I'm doing a fishless cycle with ammonia from ace hardware.

Read an interesting post on garden hoses last night and now am wondering if that was the cause of my disaster. I've used them in the past but never on a discus tank.

All my troubles started when I started water changing with a pump and hose. It's hard say though. I was expanding fast and had been bringing in new fish as well. Live and learn.

Currently cycling out 4 tanks with k1 filters. Taking it slower. Since I just started the cycle, I am figuring mid to late September before I move anyone out to mating tanks.

As far as the display tank goes... the eggs from the blue pair disappeared over night. The blue ss and virgin red are trying their best but as the wigglers become free swimming they are getting lost in the plants. I'll be surpised if any attached. Actually really surpised so many hatched to begin with since the tds is around 250 in the tank.

PP_GBR

08-20-2013, 11:49 AM

Hahaha you got 2 see my siphon tubing. They're black and I have no problem at all. Been using them for over a year and they all turned black from clear LOL. BTW, if you want Martha's 3R2s, you got to sign up on her waiting list.

Ready to use PP this time????

the20tonknuckler

08-20-2013, 12:09 PM

Hahaha. Already have it on hand.

While I'd love more of those, right now I'm going to be super cautious. No new fish. The goal is to have some successful spawns throughout the winter. If everything goes well then maybe next spring I'll bring in 1 new group of 8 fish. We will see what is available when the time comes.

PP_GBR

08-20-2013, 02:19 PM

Sounds good. When you're ready, please let me know. I'll forward you a link to order JPT.

the20tonknuckler

09-10-2013, 08:19 PM

Had another fish turn up dead a couple hours ago. My biggest, the 7+ inch pigeon. He was alive and fine before dinner. Been a lot of aggression in the tank this week. 2 different pairs have large clutches of wigglers at the moment.

the20tonknuckler

09-12-2013, 12:29 AM

So I have somewhere around 300 or so wigglers in my tank that I expect to go free swimming any time now. Tank is heavily planted. We'll see if any make it to attachment. Definately time to get those breeder tanks back up and running.

the20tonknuckler

09-12-2013, 12:32 AM

http://m.youtube.com/?client=mv-google&layout=tablet&ytsession=ZCvXmokFRJRas-tKwIiiZRgUK_eDCulmlC-D_MUvYg3LnqEowL82S2tjCHczYbPqS05r9-_8ZczkOuKTdpl0F7CvUWfAcb4ZmK7j8dyWvNquz2QGp8JrWctr LlvqXqXY43r4bEpu9w2w2rcRKJHjwDaKNGscGkF-I4u8jp4yITqUbAdXQ7z35ONZ2TU7LDUS3a9DA41yRNVQBmyE9B u9aC4jQpcWWMK87_7yc3XrdW-cGzr5Jb9iiYvaBcV06xUGeDsS8bPfUVa21TtYXL172A#/watch?v=INO_ZFSNbsU

This was shot 2 days ago.

the20tonknuckler

09-12-2013, 04:47 PM

As expected the poor parents are loosing their fry as the go free swimming. Still kind of sad though.

PP_GBR

09-13-2013, 10:37 AM

M

Sorry for your loss. What were you feeding the fish before he died? BTW, I couldn't see the video. I do not have a smart phone because I'm so stupid to own one. LOL.

Allwin

09-13-2013, 02:05 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INO_ZFSNbsU

copy/pasted

PP_GBR

09-13-2013, 02:55 PM

Mike

Did you move the pairs?

A,

Thanks.

the20tonknuckler

10-24-2013, 10:02 AM

Been a bit since I posted last.
My pigeon pair has been having domestic issues. They are fine, mate and lay eggs, but the fight over who is going to take care of them. 3 spawns in a row the mom has eaten them. With the screen around the cone she waits for them to bresk free and then it's snack time. This last time I removed her and dad is tending to the clutch fairly well with out a screen protecting them.

This current batch turned to wigglers between Monday night and Tuesday morning. There is around 150, although this morning there seem to be over a dozen belly sliders, and another dozen or so that are swimming not on the cone. Dad seems to be ignoring the belly sliders.

I'm a bit concerned about attachment also. The dad is a very light body color. Peach with a white shine and just a little pattern on his face. He was bright orange when I bought him at 2inches but changed to this as he grew.

the20tonknuckler

10-24-2013, 10:06 AM

Here is the day with the wigglers yesterday morning.

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joshvito

10-24-2013, 10:26 AM

pretty fish! fingers crossed for local fry!

the20tonknuckler

10-24-2013, 05:14 PM

Well at this point they have broken free and are everywhere in the tank for the last hour or so. On the bottom. Sides. Swimming in the water and some at the surface. I lowered the water level to just over the hight of the cone. Hoping for attachment soon.

the20tonknuckler

10-24-2013, 10:13 PM

Not feeling as optimistic as the day progresses. All were free swimming by around 3 and I removed the cone and sponge. There was no attachment when I left for dinner. When I got back around 8 more then half are on the bottom of the tank. I lowered the water level to the dad's height. There is still no attachment. T seems like all are still alive, but some seem weak and they are scattered throughout the tank. Dad is super slimey but not darker. He doesn't seem to know what to do.

Tank got a partial wc this am and I dripped in some fresh water again while lowering the tank level. Been doing down to the cone and back filled daily. Light has been left on since becoming wigglers. Right now there is only 6 inches of water, the heater and air stone in the tank.

OC Discus

10-24-2013, 10:49 PM

Maybe if he can do it a time or two in the display tank he will be able to continue in a breeding tank? Hope it works out.

Thanks for the compliments. Interestingly enough the move back to the display tank has not seemed to deter the blue pair. They have remained close to each other and now have pushed everyone to at least the midway point of the tank claiming half the tank as theirs. They are now cleaning the cone and doing a shimmy shake dance. He is super aggressive towards anyone getting close to the cone. Maybe this will trigger him to start doing fertilizing runs. The blue ss female seems to want in on it as well. Lol.

OC Discus

10-24-2013, 10:57 PM

A while back I started a fresh water tank with bio spira, now owned by tetra and sold as "safe start". Claims to cycle the tank instantly. It worked for my community tank without any loss of fish. Has anyone tried it with discus?

I started a separate thread for the 3r2's. There is a video there.

I have been wanting to get some video of all my tanks shot but have been rather busy.

So I now have 3 grow out tanks going. I have a couple more sponge filters cycling in 20 gallon tanks. I hope to soon have some of the fish from my 125 down there. I need to order a linear pump. Any recommendations?

I also been looking for some 75 gallon tanks. Mainly on Craig's list. I figure I have a couple months at least before I need them, but I'm hoping to get them cheap.

the20tonknuckler

10-24-2013, 11:01 PM

I've had both pairs take spawns to free swimming in the big tank but loose them in the plants and to the other fish. I don't know if it's just a weak spawn or the color of the dad or lack of experience or all of the above. I wish the male and female would just get along, but she seemed determined to eat them and he was beating her up. She has a nice bright orange red on white pattern which should attract the fry easier.

The pair I had last spring had this happen a few times before they got it right. It's looking like this pair will get another chance to sort it out soon.

OC Discus

10-24-2013, 11:10 PM

The common denominator seems to be the water. Could something toxic be in your source water between the tap and the tank? Even in the aging tank?

For multiple fish to die in multiple tanks on the same day, I'd suspect the water.

OC Discus

10-24-2013, 11:16 PM

Why not buy a breeding pair and save some of the stress of trying to grow them out. You could fill all your tanks with fry from one good pair.

Hahaha. Already have it on hand.

While I'd love more of those, right now I'm going to be super cautious. No new fish. The goal is to have some successful spawns throughout the winter. If everything goes well then maybe next spring I'll bring in 1 new group of 8 fish. We will see what is available when the time comes.

OC Discus

10-24-2013, 11:24 PM

People have similar problems sometimes.

I've had both pairs take spawns to free swimming in the big tank but loose them in the plants and to the other fish. I don't know if it's just a weak spawn or the color of the dad or lack of experience or all of the above. I wish the male and female would just get along, but she seemed determined to eat them and he was beating her up. She has a nice bright orange red on white pattern which should attract the fry easier.

The pair I had last spring had this happen a few times before they got it right. It's looking like this pair will get another chance to sort it out soon.

the20tonknuckler

10-24-2013, 11:29 PM

Maybe in the spring I'll be able to afford a couple good new pairs. What I really want to do is plumb all my empty tanks together into 1 breeding system 1st. A big stable body of water. Then get 2 pairs.

It's been a rough year for me with discus keeping. I'm just trying to be patient.

OC Discus

10-24-2013, 11:34 PM

Sounds like you've been putting forth a monumental effort. Sorry for your losses. Maybe the hose/pump setup or tap water had some toxic material in it. May be worth getting some water tests done before buying more fish. Some from the source and some from the tank after going through the hose and pump. Lowes sells some test kits for water that detect a number of things. You might do a new post on here for suggestions on testing for toxic material not found in fish test kits.

Maybe in the spring I'll be able to afford a couple good new pairs. What I really want to do is plumb all my empty tanks together into 1 breeding system 1st. A big stable body of water. Then get 2 pairs.

It's been a rough year for me with discus keeping. I'm just trying to be patient.