Huge ammonia spike in my water!!!

[Atomicmiss]

Okay so I thought one of my discus was sick because he was floating on his side looking like he was on deaths door so I did a 75% wc yesterday, added aquarium salt and vacuumed the sand substrate (there was a fair amount of uneaten food as I had missed a wc) and did a 50% wc today. Anyway, long story short, my ammonia levels have spiked to a dangerous level. I lost one of my brand new killi's today :(
Ive added 5x the prime and its still spiked. How long before I add the prime until it reaches its maximum strength and what do I do now???

I cycled my tank before I added my discus and typically do not use a carbon filter, I just put a zeo carb in today to help with my sudden ammonia spike though. I have a HOB filter Fluval C4 but is a canister better? I dont need an airstone with a HOB but if a canister is better I'm buying one tomorrow...

I do a 30% wc every second day and I vacuum the 1 inch sand substrate
There is not a huge PH swing in my water and I let it sit for about 6 hrs and bang the side of the container

Temp 86
PH 6.8
Ammonia was 2ppm earlier and its 1.5 ppm now
Nitrite was 0 4 days ago, went up to 1 yesterday and now its 0.5 ppm
Nitrate 5

I use tap water and check our water quality website daily to make sure it falls within safe parameters.

What do I do now??? I want to save my poor (expensive) fish!! I really love the lil guys!

[jobber]

What test kit are you using? Api?


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[Atomicmiss]

yep!

[blueluv]

Hello Atomicmiss
How much sand do you have in your tank? Sounds like your tank is re-cycling. Other than the hob what other form of filtration do you have? What size tank are your discus in? Are you using prime when adding water to your tank?

[Atomicmiss]

I only have 1 inch for my 2 cory's (1 in each). That's the only filter I have, If you can explain to me what else I need I'll gladly go buy it! My tank is a 55 and the filter is for a 70. One is about 2.5 inches and the other is about 3.5. I do use prime and seachem discus buffer when I do my wc...

[Atomicmiss]

The filter has a poly foam pad, carbon (which I replaced with foam until today), c-nodes, and a bio screen if that helps :)

[jobber]

If you're using seachem prime and using api test kit for ammonia, then you're certainly getting a false reading from your test.

Google api ammonia test kit with seachem prime. There's a bunch of info on this topic within this forum and on the web.



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[Atomicmiss]

Thank you I will :) we're you thinking my filtration wasn't enough? Can you recommend something better or that I should add? And should I continue doing anything different other than 5x the dose with daily water changes until it comes down? I guess I'm asking if there is a magic fix. I appreciate your help..

[trungnguyen]

Thank you I will :) we're you thinking my filtration wasn't enough? Can you recommend something better or that I should add? And should I continue doing anything different other than 5x the dose with daily water changes until it comes down? I guess I'm asking if there is a magic fix. I appreciate your help..

my tank is 55 too, and I have one fluval canister 306, one aquaclear 50 HOB, and one sponge filter, no carbon, and all are for 4 adult discus

[Atomicmiss]

my tank is 55 too, and I have one fluval canister 306, one aquaclear 50 HOB, and one sponge filter, no carbon, and all are for 4 adult discus

Well I'm off to buy a canister filter and a sponge filter tomorrow... and a more detailed book about discus! Thank you for your help :)

do you have an air pump as well? I was told it wasn't necessary but my tank is 18 in deep

[lipadj46]

If you're using seachem prime and using api test kit for ammonia, then you're certainly getting a false reading from your test.

Google api ammonia test kit with seachem prime. There's a bunch of info on this topic within this forum and on the web.



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Prime does not give a false reading that high, you will get a .5 ppm reading with prime. Your filter is fine you can add a second if you like though water changes are more important

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[DiscusLoverJeff]

Well I'm off to buy a canister filter and a sponge filter tomorrow... and a more detailed book about discus! Thank you for your help :)

do you have an air pump as well? I was told it wasn't necessary but my tank is 18 in deep

I would recommend for your tank a Fluval 405/406 and the AquaClear 70. You can't have to much filtration. Fill the Fluval with Bio media and polishing pads. The AC 70 with the sponge and bio media that comes with it. Use a sponge filter with a whisper air pump. You can get most of this cheap at Foster & Smith website or through Amazon.

If you ever upgrade tanks, you can move the filters over and they will handle up to 100 gals together.

Good luck.

[lipadj46]

Check kensfish too

[GrayLadyPat]

SO far, I haven't heard anyone say this in this thread, but up your water changes. One partial a week isn't going to cut it while you have ammo problems. 60-75% at least twice a week, more if you can. Daily if the ammonia stays up. Clean water is your best friend!

[Elliots]

How old is your test kit? Do you smell ammonia at the top of the tank? Do you check your tap water for ammonia? The tap water quality you read on the internet is upstream in the system before it gets to your tank. Your tap water could be different! You can probably add 5X Prime with every change, possibly you can add Prime when you do not change water for the ammonia, check with the manufacterer. Add BB like API Quick Start or TetraSafeStart with every change until you no longer have the ammonia problem. Your tank may never have been fully cycled or became uncycled. Up the water changes, more frequently and possibly more water. I would consider 25% 3X weekly the absolute minimum with adult Discus and of course more is better. Most people do more some do less. I personally do more, 30-50% 3X weekly at least.

[Poco]

Prime does not give a false reading that high, you will get a .5 ppm reading with prime. Your filter is fine you can add a second if you like though water changes are more important

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

+1 prime will not give such a high false reading. Keep up with daily large wc, at least 50%.

Have you checked your tap water for ammonia?

[trungnguyen]

Yeah, my fluval 306 is not enough for my tank, so I added more the HOB and sponge filter. I have some air stone from the sponge filter, but you really don't need it because HOB will do that job. You don't need to buy any books about discus. Everything is on here.

[Atomicmiss]

SO far, I haven't heard anyone say this in this thread, but up your water changes. One partial a week isn't going to cut it while you have ammo problems. 60-75% at least twice a week, more if you can. Daily if the ammonia stays up. Clean water is your best friend!

I typically do a 30% change every second day and Ill do a 50% once a week. While the ammonia is so high I am doing huge wc's every day till its down. Thank you!

[Atomicmiss]

ok so Ive retested my tap water and I am getting .5 from that, it appears adding the prime last night sure helped because now its reading at 0.5 as well :) Im off to shop for more supplies!! Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions!! I was losing my mind!!!

[troysdiiscus]

Ok let me add this...you will get a false positive from API with prime. May want to pick up seachem alarm. sticks inside your tank and indicate to you when levels become toxic. I use it in mine just as a safety net. Its cheap and does work...definately if your levels are that low in your tap water then you definately need to up WC. Also with the increase in nitrite, thinking your load on your bio is a bit much and maybe going through a mini cycle, when adding your new filter system use media in your excisting units and up water change till it can catch up..

[blueluv]

How are things with your ammonia problem since you started this thread. What filter and filter media have added so far?

[Atomicmiss]

My kit is brand new and I did in fact but the Seachem alarm today :) The person I talked to today told me it sounds like my tank is re cycling. He suggested adding Stability with no wc. That didn't work so I set up my new qt tank and put the discus in it, did a 90% wc to the big tank today, added Discus Buffer, Prime and Stability and it worked!! All my tests are normal!!

I ended up going with a sponge filter so I can hold out for a kick a** canister.

After putting the discus in qt I noticed there is a white fungus coming out of his gill and its not opening as well as the other side. He's not sideways anymore but he's pointing up at the surface and won't eat. Treated with fungus treatment, I hope I did right!

[blueluv]

Why are you using discus buffer?

[blueluv]

Are you getting ammonia readings after you use the discus buffer?

[Atomicmiss]

I was getting ph readings over 8 so I use it to keep it around 6.8 to 7, the ammonia doesn't spike with it at all. And I find it easier to control my ph with my wc's. is this not a good thing to use??

[Poco]

Dont use discus buffer, it will play yo-yo with pH. Sudden change in pH can potentially kill fish.

Prime and stability are ok to use.

[Atomicmiss]

Crap! What if my ph spikes or does the prime and stability help with that?

[Atomicmiss]

Or is ph around 8 okay for discus?

[Poco]

Crap! What if my ph spikes or does the prime and stability help with that?

Prime and stability will not help pH. How discus buffer works is it rapidly lowers pH and the water's buffers will raise your pH, so lets say you started with 8 and lowered it to 6.8 after 24hrs it will settle around 7.5 or so.

Before you next water change check the tank pH and add new water slowly, do use prime though.

Prime is a de-chlore and Stability is bio bacteria in a bottle.

[Poco]

Or is ph around 8 okay for discus?

Discus want stable pH not lower pH. 8 is fine as long as it stays stable.

[Atomicmiss]

thank you! Do you know how long it takes a fish to recover from ammonia poisoning? Looks like he has fungus in his gill now too... Im so not winning right now lol

[Atomicmiss]

thank you! Do you know how long it takes a fish to recover from ammonia poisoning? Looks like he has fungus in his gill now too... Im so not winning right now... Do you know of anything to help him heal faster? Aquarium salt? chemical?

[lipadj46]

Clean water

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[blueluv]

Dont use discus buffer, it will play yo-yo with pH. Sudden change in pH can potentially kill fish.

Prime and stability are ok to use.

+1. Also I was thinking that you might be getting sudden ph shifts which probably killed some of your beneficial bacteria, which could possibly explain the ammonia spikes?

[Atomicmiss]

Thank you all!! Im continuing to do heavy wc's and will not be using discus buffer anymore!!

[Atomicmiss]

So after a long battle and a qt tank treating him for cotton ball fungus he died today. Who knew you could be so sad from losing a fish :(
I'll be writing another post about my trials and errors for other beginners and hope those who are experienced discus owners can comment where I went wrong or what I should have done differently in hopes of helping other discus beginners. Thank you all for your help, I only have one discus now and I need to figure out what to do now.

[Crunchy]

I had experience with nitrite spike after heavy feeding of frozen blood worms in a newly cycled tank. I think the bio media wasnt enough to handle the bioload of fish poop and decaying worms. My cycling was done with small fishes too, so that could be the problem. I should have gone with The fishless huge ammonia cycling method that seems to create a big bio buffer, as long as there is enough media for them to grow on eg filter ceramic media.

[Len]

You might consider looking into pure aquarium or pure pond bacteria balls. They will lower the ammonia and nitrite in quick order while helping cycle your tank. Also, figure out how much chlorine/chloramine is in your tap water and use the proper amount of prime to treat those levels and if need be add enough to help control ammonia spikes, but simply adding 5X or whatever multiple of the recommended does is just a guess and probably wasteful use of the product.